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Some insight for westerners who support Russian expansion into Crimea and eastern Ukraine.

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posted on Mar, 24 2015 @ 09:53 AM
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a reply to: sosobad

Except that is complete BS.

I notice you dont have a counter argument to mine. Only your take on my words....which you try to twist to make me into a sociopath that wants people to die. What a crappy and lazy straw man attack. Yeah sparky, I want people to die....dumb.

What are you retarded or a child with no critical thinking skills? Did you get nervous or something, choked up and resorted to that nonsense?

Please take notice everyone....he lacks a counter argument.

Thank you for the win. When you have to resort to BS like this, I know this chimp has won.

Do you then want the US, Europe and its allies to fail and for their people to die? You did imply it?

LOL, what a dick.

ALso, if people dont agree with you that probably means they simply disagree with you for other reasons, not that they are wrong you arrogant fool. And I do read, more than you. I have only offered my own thoughts based on history and current events. I did not limit myself like yourself to blogs and MSM articles from a super power. You come off as a talking head no different than a Fox news correspondent.

You have no thoughts that are your own, no words that are your own, or any insight (which this thread is about) to add beyond something we can just read for ourselves.

How about this you little gem...

Post a link of all the articles, blogs, and other commentary out of Russia that you didnt write or that you think we should read. Save us the BS you try to doll all this up with.

Maybe I am a chimp. You are useful idiot and believe it or not, I know what is going to happen to you. I am not even sorry.


edit on 3 24 2015 by tadaman because: (no reason given)




posted on Mar, 24 2015 @ 09:55 AM
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a reply to: noeltrotsky

Thanks for the reply.

I guess I will have to take your word on it since you know more than me about it. What you say seems balanced and true. Thanks for the input sir,

Have a good one.
Hold it down.



edit on 3 24 2015 by tadaman because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 24 2015 @ 10:05 AM
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a reply to: Rocker2013

Its nuts.

I think the most sane solution would have been for Russia to simply HELP THE UKRAINE improve conditions if they were SOOOOOOOO worried about crimeans. We all know that is not the case. They now have more land, GREAT!

Putin is the most supported leader from the east in the west who is also the least studied person the west doesnt know.

I think it is so effing retarded to support someone blindly when most cant describe who he is or what his story is. People have done ZERO informative research into who Putin is. The guy supports genocidal former leaders of Russia as role models for current leaders. He is quite possibly worse for everything they hated the "bush regime" for but only a thousand fold worse.

If anyone doesnt think this is all about penile compensation from an archaic style of leadership hungry for bragging rights a nationalistic ego jerking, then they deserve the world they force the rest of us to live in. Like I said before, you cant avoid other peoples stupidity.

Dont worry though, the chips do fall eventually.


edit on 3 24 2015 by tadaman because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 24 2015 @ 10:35 AM
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a reply to: tadaman

Much appreciated! Seriously, not sure I've ever read a post like that at ATS. I should try saying it myself sometimes!
Apologies for the aggressive attitude...I hit the ground under fire in these Ukraine threads.

Respect



posted on Mar, 24 2015 @ 10:46 AM
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a reply to: tadaman

There is no point in countering anything because when you are presented with facts you simply ignore them and/or resort to name calling also there was nothing to counter in your post, it was self righteous drivel. The fact you think you got some sort of win is sad but remember you are not writing threads for anyone but yourself right? Suuure What did you win? Your post shows exactly why you cannot be responded to. Every post you make has offensive words, every post. You are not executing critical thinking by ignoring facts. Show me the last link/commentary/news article I've used "out of Russia". So while you execute your "critical" thinking, I will stick to things that matter in reality.

edit on 24-3-2015 by sosobad because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 24 2015 @ 11:08 AM
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This should be obvious to most people. The whole event was a continuation of the US attempt to expand nato in order to continue encircling and isolating Russia. We have politicians (nuland) who explicitly stated that we were doing this, and also stipulated who would be in charge afterwards. This was a US CIA instigated coup, which was for the purpose of overthrowing the current president who was refusing to join NATO or to submit to IMF domination of his nations economy....not to say he was a nice guy, but we are fine with people who are not nice guys....in fact, the more brutal the more we usually support them...so long as they go along with the sell off of all their nations natural resources and public resources to our bankers at rock bottom prices. Further, we can see exactly what would have happened to crimea by looking at the other regions in eastern Ukraine, which have been attacked and shelled without initial Russian support, though they were petitioning to become part of Russia at the time as well.

Regardless, this ignores the point of russias right to pursue safety from threats to its national security. When Russia was putting missiles in cuba, we responded by threatening nuclear war, and I have yet to ever have heard anyone criticizing that decision. Allowing Ukraine, Georgia, et al. to become part of a nato defense shield is no different. I guess what you guys are saying is that Russia should let US and western bankers and warmongers do whatever they want to Russias neighbors, and its none of russias business. I suppose your point of view is that the US has the right to meddle wherever they want in the world, install dictators, overthrow democracies, teach oppressive governments to rape and murder in order to pacify their own populace, meanwhile no other nation has the right to step in and do anything about it when these actions threaten the stability or security of that nation?

This is NOT a civil war, any more than Libya, Iraq, Vietnam, or Afghanistan was. This was an intentional coup designed to chop up Ukraine for our bankers and investors, lose Russia its western port, and expand NATO's missile shield to russias doorstep.

Further, I wish others would realize....the US ultimate goal is total global subjugation to their banking and corporate masters. When, IF this horrible event ever comes to fruition, all of our children and our grandchildren will be nothing more than slaves to the corporate body. Our unipolar world has not gone well for the vast majority of the third world, as we have meddled in and destroyed the possibility of first world status for most of south America, Africa, and the middle east, and anytime there is someone fighting to unify these areas we come in and destroy them with boots on the ground, all in pursuit of hegemony. With the new police state we live in, declining standard of living, stagnating wages and disappearing jobs, and privatization of necessary services in order to exploit, it has become obvious that the plans the corporations and MIC have for other nations is intended for our own citizens here as well. It seems to me now, that a multipolar world is the only hope that we have of mitigating this for a while, so yes, I am rooting for Russia and china to become global powers as well, and hopefully one day south America and Africa can throw off our yoke and gain independence and development too. Otherwise, with our bought out political system, pandering only to those who pay for the elections, we are all doomed.



posted on Mar, 24 2015 @ 11:21 AM
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13 years later and still just as gullible...

Crimeans Keep Saying No to Ukraine



The coup touched off a brutal civil war in which the right-wing regime in Kiev dispatched neo-Nazi and other extremist militias to spearhead a fierce “anti-terrorism operation” against resistance from the ethnic Russian population in the east, which – like Crimea – had supported Yanukovych. More than 6,000 Ukrainians, most of them ethnic Russians, have been killed in the fighting.

Despite this reality, the mainstream U.S. news media has misreported the crisis and distorted the facts to conform to U.S. State Department propaganda. Thus, many Americans believe the false narrative about Russian troops crushing the popular will of the Crimean people, much as the U.S. public was misled about the Iraq situation in 2002-03 by many of the same news outlets.


Source



posted on Mar, 24 2015 @ 11:41 AM
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a reply to: sosobad

youre the one calling me a chimp and getting all worked up over my words. you accused me of wanting to have people die...did you forget?


and you still didnt counter my point. Funny thing is that you came in trying to counter my OP which is absurd in and of itself. I offered context with examples not related to Russia or Crimea. You are too used to reading and writing hit pieces.

You could have talked about the worthiness of my examples, but you jump to all this crazy crap and nonsense about me personally.
That would entail listening and would also leave you without a soap box to perpetuate your hatred of my people and country.

You have lost the art of adult conversation that is mutually beneficial. Maybe you never had it. Look at the bright side. You can always get a job on Fox news where nonsense is offered as facts as you say.

also the PC argument is retarded. No one cares sparky. Talk about lame.


edit on 3 24 2015 by tadaman because: (no reason given)

edit on 3 24 2015 by tadaman because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 24 2015 @ 11:54 AM
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a reply to: noeltrotsky

Very cool. How were the people? Are they friendly? The sea looks lovely there.
second line



posted on Mar, 24 2015 @ 12:13 PM
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a reply to: tadaman

Go back and read my first post. I told you exactly why you comparison is moot but surprise surprise you ignored it with some post riddled with inaccurate information while telling me to get informed. The whole thread is indicative of your self nature, the title alone "Some insight for westerners" shows that you think your own opinion is cardinal law on the subject. And then you go on to inaccurately try to compare the Crimeans with the Basques. If you had read up about it at all you'd know the historical backgrounds are what makes the comparison comical and when another poster pointed it out to you, guess what? You ignored it. That shows a special level of ignorance that only a few possess.



You have lost the art of adult conversation that is mutually beneficial. Maybe you never had it. Look at the bright side. You can always get a job on Fox news where nonsense is offered as facts as you say.


Lol tell me I can't talk like an adult and then follow it up with a childish retort, well done. Just a free flowing stream of contradiction's in everything you say from one post to another.


also the PC argument is retarded. No one cares sparky. Talk about lame.


Stop telling people to talk like adults when you cannot do the same.



posted on Mar, 24 2015 @ 01:35 PM
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a reply to: sosobad

You are wrong. They had two choices...Russia or independence ....there was no option for Kiev.

Is this the post that you say was about my op? BECAUSE IT IS A HIT AND RUN all about your dislike of The Ukraine.

You lied. Or just dont knkw what the hell you are saying anymore
.
where is the coment about my comparison you say I ignored?



posted on Mar, 24 2015 @ 01:46 PM
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a reply to: tadaman

I have totally lost you, where did I mention the choices in the poll? How do you expect to have a meaningful exchange with people when you don't know who or what you are replying to half the time? You've done it on this thread and the other. Go back to my first post and click on your name to see what I was replying to.

Where did I lie? You are just making stuff up now. You said "do crimeans consider Russia their homeland" and I responded "that is not indicative of the Crimeans not wanting Russia there". No lies in my answer but are using a poll from before the crisis asking a different question to justify yourself. Yes or no? In light of that who is lying/twisting the truth?



posted on Mar, 24 2015 @ 02:40 PM
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a reply to: sosobad



I have totally lost you, where did I mention the choices in the poll?




They had two options Kiev or Moscow,


did you forget how to read?

You came in poo poo slinging and now cant even read your own posts after you made a long ass emotional tirade about my "offensive" posts and how you were in fact talking about my OP in your first post....which was a lie. You came in talking about thugs in Kiev and BS which did not talk about my comparison that you say I ignored. You also said another poster said something similar that I ignored...which was a lie as well.

You are just a talking head who lives in threads like this. I came to have an intelligent conversation. You came to push your bias. Thats why you got emotional and had a huge attitude. I have disagreed with others in this thread but ultimately I have respected them because they respected me.

You have been a dick. Hence, I am a dick to you. WHY? Because you dont impress me with your emotional BS directed at me personally. You have even reached for straws in analysing my effing title for the thread...applying a BS analysis of my psychological state. That I think myself an authority....and endless other straw man attacks since you cant touch my argument. You lack the wits.

The only person who we should be taking to heart is the only one in the thread and possibly all of ATS who has been to Russia and Crimea.

What he said echoed what I said, with the exception of his correction about the mood of Crimeans about independance from the Ukraine...which I admitted I was wrong on gave in to his better judgement. He also said that he hopes people look for more information than what I have offered. Again I agree. This is a single conversation meant to give us a better grasp of what is happening over there....since in the west we have retards that support this all out of childish hatred of the US....as if that is a reason to support anything...dumb.

If you come here like a bully or a dick you will find that I am just as much that as you.

Talk and exchange ideas with respect and I will too. If not I will call your SENTIMENT retarded and laugh when you say I am not politically correct enough for you.

You came here with derailment on your mind and a soap box you always bring to these threads. They have all become a blur in your mind and you dont even know which you are responding to anymore.

How about a break or a reality check, I dont care which. But ease off pal. You are coming off as a huge dick, and I will only get more encouraged by it all.


edit on 3 24 2015 by tadaman because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 24 2015 @ 02:42 PM
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a reply to: pexx421

You do know Russia has their own banking system ?? Problem has nothing to do with banks this is a false nara time started by people who don't understand global banking. But I would love to hear how Russia invading Ukraine has to do with throwing off the yolk of corporate anything as you pit it.



posted on Mar, 24 2015 @ 02:44 PM
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originally posted by: tadaman
a reply to: sosobad



I have totally lost you, where did I mention the choices in the poll?




They had two options Kiev or Moscow,


did you forget how to read?


Did you??

I said that you posting that "80% crimeans don't consider their homeland Russia" is not indicative of not wanting them there. This is getting a bit too tedious now, having to hold your hand through posts is getting too much. I should have just bowed out when I said it the first time. Godspeed on you travels of critical thinking.

edit on 24-3-2015 by sosobad because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 24 2015 @ 02:52 PM
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a reply to: sosobad


I have totally lost you, where did I mention the choices in the poll?

They had two options Kiev or Moscow,


Are you seriously going to ignore this?

You dont want to be a bigger man? Admit you were a little off? Didnt read? That you made up that entire post in response to mine that pointed out that you have not acted like an adult by engaging the subject at hand? That you came with a loaded opinion about the Ukraine and commenced to drill us like a talking head from RT or Fox news from post number one?

Alright.


BTW if you have to bow out because you are full of crap then do so. I stand by what I said because I stand to learn...thats the reason why I came. I am honest enough to not have to put up with BS allegations or attacks on me personally for holding an unpopular opinion. I know where I stand and my conscience is clear.....so I will do this ALL DAY LONG. You will not shut me down with crap I have seen SOOO MANY times before. Not impressed sir, not a little.

But if you want to make this about me, Americans, the west, the Ukraine, or Putin or what ever I am game. I dont tap out. You have to prove me wrong. Then I am as humble as can be. If you start beef, I am VERY DOWN to see where it goes.


edit on 3 24 2015 by tadaman because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 24 2015 @ 03:02 PM
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Oa reply to: tadaman

This was your post I was responding to


No, they are happy about being free from the Ukraine. That doesnt mean they like being under rule from Moscow. When asked if they consider Russia their homeland over 80% say NO....


To which I said


Is that indicative of them not wanting Russia there? No. You are using a poll from before all this happened to justify your stance of saving the crimeans from themselves.


This part wasn't about the poll, it was a comment on the situation of the war


They had two options Kiev or Moscow, Kiev ain't working out too well for the donbass region now is it?


Hence why I commented on the donbass region. They could either die by Kiev or live under Moscow. They live under Moscow and you know what they are happy about it no matter what fallacies you put forward.

You are not worth the mental fatigue talking to, call me full of crap all you want but you do not possess the mental capacity to warrant another response when you can't decypher simple sentences put forward to you.



posted on Mar, 24 2015 @ 03:58 PM
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a reply to: sosobad

I know it wasnt about the poll which was carried a few weeks before the vote. YOUR COMMENT was about the VOTE. They had two options in the ballot to choose from...independance which I have now learned that they dont seek, or joining Russia, no option was offered for staying in the Ukraine which you adamantly said was one of the choices....hence why you based your argument on them WANTING to be Russian and why you mentioned that they had two options..... The vote had only Independance or joining Russia, you thought different. It would be Ok to make a simple mistake, but what is absurd is that you still try to finagle your way out of a simple "my bad, big deal".

like I said, if you have to bow out because you are full of crap then do so. You have presented eronous facts while saying I am making things up, though you have YET to point out what I was factually incorrect on. You cant because you hinged your counter argument on my sentiment and my interpretation of history and current events....all of which I spoke about from my point of view. You essentially think I am wrong in my opinion. Since that is retarded to say outright with nothing more than your own opinion about the US or the Ukraine you then try to allude to misinformation on my part...which you havent proven.

+

If you are fatigued it is because you have to work twice as hard as me. I am not a liar pushing someone else's agenda. I am an average person with a thirst for knowledge and productive exchange. Trying to keep up with your mental diarrhea across multiple forums and sites must be quite the workload.

I wish you luck as you bow out to save face. I am not even slightly tired. I have been shooting from the hip the whole time. This is all just how I see it and I look forward to a good conversation about it so as to learn some more. You are stressed and emotional because you have to push words not your own and focus on the sentiment of others you try to pull out of your ass.

Here is a figure from the poll you say is somehow not relevant '?!?...because it had not been conducted AFTER the vote. I would like to see one after as well....since we do have one before...see what has changed since the Russian patriotism has been drilled in like it was the fourth of july in the US...



Poll conducted by the Razumkov Center and focused on issues of language, identity and region.


edit on 3 24 2015 by tadaman because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 24 2015 @ 04:07 PM
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a reply to: tadaman

I showed you exactly what I responded to, exactly and you say no it was something else? Delusions, we are done here.



posted on Mar, 24 2015 @ 04:07 PM
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a reply to: sosobad

No you didnt.

If that is the case you would just post it again. You cant because you either are a liar or lost track of who you were responding to over various threads like these that you live in....pushing the Russian propaganda machines filth onto our minds and retarding productive conversation.


edit on 3 24 2015 by tadaman because: (no reason given)




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