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posted on Apr, 6 2015 @ 08:06 AM
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originally posted by: thorfourwinds

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: Bspiracy

I think you are missing Waynos point. The contrails you see certainly do exist. You just don't know where they are coming from. If you use a flight tracking software app, you can verify the altitude and where the plane came from to understand this better. If you ever see a contrail in your area below 20,000 feet, it's a HUGE deal. THAT would peak our interests as a possible chemtrail. The reason is, it's not usually cold enough at lower altitudes to form persistent contrails.


Greetings:

You are assuming that all planes in question show up on flight tracking software.

We have it on good authority that the planes laying chemtrails do not show up on flight tracking software.

Stay tuna-ed.


Most flights do show up. Some military flights may not. The point is, you can look up the flight information on most planes leaving lines in the sky. If you find even one commercial plane doing it, then the whole chemtrail theory starts to unravel.

And if you want to end all speculation on chemtrails, look up "ice budget" to comprehend how much (chemtrail juice) would be needed to produce a line in the sky. Once you have that number, look up the capacity of the same aircraft you are seeing make these lines. (hint, simple math will show it's impossible to carry enough material to make a small trail, let alone one that covers the entire visible sky.




posted on Apr, 8 2015 @ 03:28 PM
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a reply to: network dude

You bring up a valid point with the creation of 'chemtrail juice.' If chemtrails really exist as part of an aeresol spraying operation, where is the stuff manufactured and stored? Awhile back I read something about a relationship between NATO and chemtrails. What I read was that every NATO nation chemtrails occur. Apparently, even in new NATO nations, as soon as the nation joins NATO, chemtrails immediately appear. I don't have a first hand account to state if the relationship between NATO and chemtrails is true, other than this statement I am going to deliver. During my one and only visit to Europe I had to change trains in Brussels, Belgium, which is headquarters of NATO. During my brief stay in Brussels, I deffinately noticed that the sky was almost permenantly greyed out. I don't know how else to describe it, and I would have liked to have a longer stay so I could verify how accurate my observations were. Can anyone from Brussels give any sort of evidence to verify my observations or negate my observations? Also, I find it reasonable to put a blame on NATO for the chemtrail operations because they would have the means to operate a global aersol spray operation in secrecy.



posted on Apr, 8 2015 @ 07:52 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: network dude

The only time one of these debates are worth having is when a chemtrail believer has actually gone out and obtained a sample of these supposed "chemtrails" and found evidence of chemical dispersion within.


Hello...

I live in the Eastern corner of Cairo, Egypt. We just got our heaviest chemtrail 'kill-em-all-like-bugs' spray ever! I have actually been shooting the moon for a few days in ref. to another conspiracy theory. Tonight, i simply cannot see through the layer of smog! Now almost 3 hours...

I don't own a drone or a Cessna, sorry. But how can i collect a sample if i improvise say? How high? How do i collect? Any links that could help? Dispersion? I'm new here on ATS but only 18% draconian so i can improvise )

Cheers...



posted on Apr, 8 2015 @ 08:12 PM
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a reply to: Hawke

You'd need to charter a plane then and fly up and collect air samples of the contrail. There are all sorts of ways to collect the sample once you are in the air.



posted on Apr, 8 2015 @ 08:55 PM
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originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: thorfourwinds
"... the claim about RFMP/VTRPE it contains has already been debunked in this thread."


Greetings:

No, it has not been debunked by you or your partners in crime, but has been verified by .mil documents.
Obviously, comprehension is another of your shortcomings.
This tag-team BS has gone far enough.
Re-read your COINTELPRO manual and you will see where you slipped up.


Game on.



posted on Apr, 8 2015 @ 09:52 PM
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a reply to: thorfourwinds

Accusing people of being paid propagandists or shills is specifically against the rules of this Web site. It also shows all too clearly that you have run out of valid arguments. Your post is a touching admission of defeat.



posted on Apr, 9 2015 @ 04:11 AM
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originally posted by: thorfourwinds

No, it has not been debunked by you or your partners in crime, but has been verified by .mil documents.


What ".mil" documents are those?



posted on Apr, 9 2015 @ 05:43 AM
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a reply to: thorfourwinds

I thought your docs showed that NASA had sprayed Barium and Lithium out of rockets. This discussion is about those white puffy lines behind planes. That is what I intend to discuss. I have no interest in debunking geo-engineering, but I do have an interest in the subject. And I have seen no evidence that it's happening yet (outside of the few projects that have took place. Like the painted rooftops and rouge iron dumping)

Game ON!!!!



posted on Apr, 9 2015 @ 10:46 AM
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Contrails trap heat and are the single largest unknown in the IPCC reports:
Chemtrails Explained: The Geoengineering SRM Field Experiment

Watch on Youtube
www.youtube.com...

IPCC 5th Assessment, Clouds and Aerosols: Supplementary Material 2007
www.ipcc.ch...

Coordinating Lead Authors:
Olivier Boucher (France), David Randall (USA)
Lead Authors:
Paulo Artaxo (Brazil), Christopher Bretherton (USA), Graham Feingold (USA), Piers Forster (UK), Veli-Matti Kerminen (Finland), Yutaka Kondo (Japan), Hong Liao (China), Ulrike Lohmann (Switzerland), Philip Rasch (USA), S.K. Satheesh (India), Steven Sherwood (Australia), Bjorn Stevens (Germany), Xiao-Ye Zhang (China)
Contributing Authors:
Govindasamy Bala (India), Nicolas Bellouin (UK), Angela Benedetti (UK), Sandrine Bony (France), Ken Caldeira (USA), Anthony Del Genio (USA), Maria Cristina Facchini (Italy), Mark Flanner (USA), Steven Ghan (USA), Claire Granier (France), Corinna Hoose (Germany), Andy Jones (UK), Makoto Koike (Japan), Ben Kravitz (USA), Benjamin Laken (Spain), Matthew Lebsock (USA), Natalie Mahowald (USA), Gunnar Myhre (Norway), Colin O’Dowd (Ireland), Alan Robock (USA), Bjørn Samset (Norway), Hauke Schmidt (Germany), Michael Schulz (Norway), Graeme Stephens (USA), Philip Stier (UK), Trude Storelvmo (USA), Dave Winker (USA), Matthew Wyant (USA)
[names in bold are Geoengineering SRM advocates]

According to these fine scientists and geoengineering dudes, we really have no clue how much sun is currently being blocked or reflected by contrails, let alone how they are formed, allegedly.

We further assess the 90% uncertainty range to be +0.02 to +0.15 W m–2 to take into account the large uncertainties associated with spreading rate, optical depth, ice particle shape and radiative transfer. A low confidence is attached to this estimate.
www.ipcc.ch...

The Bottom Line

The only difference between these contrail RF studies and the list of “official” geoengineering SRM field experiments is the scientists in the experiment didn’t have to pay for the planes.

One experiment used a helicopter and car to make clouds
another used planes and boats to make clouds
one wanted to use boats and blimps to make clouds
the last used salt flares to make clouds
The only thing left for an experiment to be considered a geoengineering SRM experiment, according to Jack Doughty’s definition, is to stand under some man-made clouds and measure how much sunlight was blocked.

Every single contrail RF study fits the definition, is a geoengineering SRM field project, and is “the project that shall not be mentioned.”

The ICAO has presenters discussing taking advantage of contrails to cool the planet, therefore, THIS IS GEOENGINEERING!

Contrails used to cool the planet, WITH INTENT See last slide:
www.icao.int...
Recent research results on the climate impact of contrail cirrus and mitigation options, Ulrich Schumann, 2010

#Winning




“Contrails formed by aircraft can evolve into cirrus clouds indistinguishable from those formed naturally. These ‘spreading contrails’ may be causing more climate warming today than all the carbon dioxide emitted by aircraft since the start of aviation.

Atmospheric science: Seeing through contrails by Olivier Boucher, Nature Climate Change 1, 24–25 (2011) doi:10.1038/nclimate1078 Published online 29 March 2011

www.nature.com...


So the lead author of the 2007 IPCC report on contrails did a 180, now he is saying that contrails' heat trapping properties may be heating the climate more than CO2.... the plot thickens

So in the end, chemtrails are an active geoengineering experiment whereby setting standards for flight paths and fuel sulfur/carbon black soot emissions can hopefully turn heat trapping contrails into planet cooling ones.

That is the definition of a geoengineering experiment, as proven by the geoengineers' own list of previous "field experiments."

This crowd should be more educated than I have seen in browsing the last hour, smh.

Know your chemtrail history (interactive timeline):
climateviewer.com...



posted on Apr, 9 2015 @ 12:45 PM
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a reply to: R3zn8D

As said in the other thread, to the same post you made here, your confusion is baffling. What is it that you think contrails are?

#laughing with a puzzled look



posted on Apr, 9 2015 @ 01:31 PM
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a reply to: network dude

you are baffled because you haven't done your holy homework:

www.youtube.com...



posted on Apr, 9 2015 @ 01:33 PM
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originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: R3zn8D

As said in the other thread, to the same post you made here, your confusion is baffling. What is it that you think contrails are?

#laughing with a puzzled look



Check the timeline then maybe you will start to see how little you really understand, no offense bro:
climateviewer.com...



posted on Apr, 9 2015 @ 02:09 PM
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a reply to: R3zn8D

Dude, you are all over the map with this stuff.

Here is my situation. I know contrails exist. I know they can persist. I know it takes the conditions at 20-35 thousand feet to be right for trails to form and persist.

I know aircraft exhaust contains pollution. I know what cloud seeding is. I know it has nothing to do with contrails.

Now, having said all that, I believe that those who push the chemtrail theory simply don't understand contrails. (at best) It's possible that some folks who profit from pushing chemtrails are in it for the money, and know full well, that the chemtrail theory is garbage. (at worst)

I truly don't get where you are at with all this. Most of what you say/present is correct and not at all unusual. the parts that get crazy are of course the use of the term chemtrail and the few places where you give that theory credence with no backup other than patents. (see also, ideas)



posted on Apr, 9 2015 @ 02:12 PM
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originally posted by: R3zn8D
a reply to: network dude

you are baffled because you haven't done your holy homework:

www.youtube.com...


I admit to being new at this. I have only been doing this for about 7 years, and my interest in aviation and weather has only been going on for 30 years. So, if "doing my research" is watching flucking you tube videos, I have to laugh at what you consider research.

I know there are things I don't know, and like to learn them, but until you bring one of those things here, please spare me the 'do your homework' sh!t.



posted on Apr, 9 2015 @ 02:52 PM
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originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: R3zn8D
Here is my situation. I know contrails exist. I know they can persist. I know it takes the conditions at 20-35 thousand feet to be right for trails to form and persist.
I know aircraft exhaust contains pollution. I know what cloud seeding is. I know it has nothing to do with contrails.


I am new to this too. I cannot say i know whats in the con/chemtrails, i am only trying to find out.
But i know this: NEVER have i witnessed a few planes shoot through the sky and i could NOT see the moon through the trails for a few good hours. I know the trails can persist according to many various conditions, but definitely not like that!

They spraying us like bugs? maybe.
Are they blocking our view to something? possible.
Priming their HAARP weapon syncing it with Blue Beam for a Biblical show? i don't know.

I joined yesterday so i could discuss and find out and see through the disinformation and propaganda.
Simply mocking that that's exhaust fumes of you know, planes and stuff? C'mon...

__



posted on Apr, 9 2015 @ 02:59 PM
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a reply to: Hawke

If you are new to this, I invite you to attempt to learn as much as you can about persistent contrails, aircraft engines, and weather. Find that information from an unbiased source.

If you do that diligently, then you will have a large help in understanding this conspiracy. If you chose to get your education from youtube and chemtrail web sites, you will not need any of that information I suggested.



posted on Apr, 9 2015 @ 04:34 PM
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originally posted by: Hawke

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: R3zn8D
Here is my situation. I know contrails exist. I know they can persist. I know it takes the conditions at 20-35 thousand feet to be right for trails to form and persist.
I know aircraft exhaust contains pollution. I know what cloud seeding is. I know it has nothing to do with contrails.


I am new to this too. I cannot say i know whats in the con/chemtrails, i am only trying to find out.
But i know this: NEVER have i witnessed a few planes shoot through the sky and i could NOT see the moon through the trails for a few good hours. I know the trails can persist according to many various conditions, but definitely not like that!

They spraying us like bugs? maybe.
Are they blocking our view to something? possible.
Priming their HAARP weapon syncing it with Blue Beam for a Biblical show? i don't know.

I joined yesterday so i could discuss and find out and see through the disinformation and propaganda.
Simply mocking that that's exhaust fumes of you know, planes and stuff? C'mon...

__


bro, see this post/thread www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Apr, 9 2015 @ 05:56 PM
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originally posted by: R3zn8D

originally posted by: Hawke

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: R3zn8D
Here is my situation. I know contrails exist. I know they can persist. I know it takes the conditions at 20-35 thousand feet to be right for trails to form and persist.
I know aircraft exhaust contains pollution. I know what cloud seeding is. I know it has nothing to do with contrails.


I am new to this too. I cannot say i know whats in the con/chemtrails, i am only trying to find out.
But i know this: NEVER have i witnessed a few planes shoot through the sky and i could NOT see the moon through the trails for a few good hours. I know the trails can persist according to many various conditions, but definitely not like that!

They spraying us like bugs? maybe.
Are they blocking our view to something? possible.
Priming their HAARP weapon syncing it with Blue Beam for a Biblical show? i don't know.

I joined yesterday so i could discuss and find out and see through the disinformation and propaganda.
Simply mocking that that's exhaust fumes of you know, planes and stuff? C'mon...

__


bro, see this post/thread www.abovetopsecret.com...


Sure, it's as unbiased as wwww.chemtrailswillkillya.com



posted on Apr, 9 2015 @ 09:33 PM
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a reply to: network dude
Greetings:

Typical old-school COINTELPRO dis-info and detraction from the issue at hand.

Making up a web site and figuring that the sheeple will 'take you on your word' and not attempt to follow a dead link is so obvious and really distasteful.

You do realize, that I was not in the least interested in your BS distraction from the real problem of geo-engineering by steering the conversation to "contrails", however, after tracking you guys across the net, I find that there is a concentrated effort to confuse the sheeple about the true problem of the debilitating effects of multiple carcinogens being added to the atmosphere, regardless of whatever name you wish to use, and regardless of the nature of the dispersal; rockets, satellite, drone, commercial aircraft, etc.

I will continue to pursue the medical aspects of this egregious affront on the citizens rights to clear skies and freedom of fear from the government performing more experiments on the peoples of Planet Earth.

This cover-up perhaps surpasses the monstrous cover-up of the real situation at Fukushima.

Thank you for your time, consideration and patience with an admitted 'newbie', and thank you for awakening me to this 'chemtrail' word entrapment…you guys are good, but the truth will vindicate the our position.

Have a super day.



posted on Apr, 10 2015 @ 12:46 AM
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a reply to: thorfourwinds

I am soooo sorry. The link was just to make a point. (I made it up)

I wish you luck on your quest to save the planet. On that faithful day, when you have that epiphany and realize that what we have been trying to tell you is exactly how it is, you can come back and offer your heartfelt apology. Until then,

Have a super day as well.



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