40th anniversary of Travis Waltons ufo abduction summit

originally posted by: Aliensun
a reply to: Logarock

In a word, that was Hollywood talking. As I recall, Walton's unhappiness was with the inventiveness used to sensationalize the story with weird graphics rather than a simple attempt to convey what he remembered. But you see, with UFO abductees, you get into sticky ground here. There are the true, basic factual matters of the event, and then there are what they input into us some of us to "remember" or forget about the event. Other than my stated views about why I think he was taken, I have nothing to say about his onboard experiences.

He is lucky to be alive from that experience and luckier yet to have survived the decades since. Living in two worlds is a constant struggle.

Really well said, thank you. Living in two worlds is a constant struggle, exactly.

originally posted by: zazzafrazz
a reply to: Soloprotocol

Yeah, they were all in on it..6 men

I'll add to this if all the guys were in on the hoax, Klaas maintained they were as they were not on track to meet the logging contract to get paid for failure to meet agreed work in a 10 day approaching deadline. "unless by an act of god"
I don't know about the whole group, but it is the argument for the whole group being involved theory .

Phil Klass was pretty much an evil clown with only one agenda, to fool people into thinking aliens were not real.

The whole crew together have passed 11 polygraph examinations.

originally posted by: zazzafrazz
The abduction itself reads like a 1960s/70's technology tale. I'll have to refresh myself Ive been through this Walton case too many times on ATS, I'd rather just cut and paste as it's almost boring now, so give me time for coffee first

I have no opinion on UFO junkies around the world. I am referring to Walton alone. In this case, if you read the family history and the comments whilst he was 'abducted' it supports that they were well versed on 'aliens' and would be able to come up with the hoax.

You know, the Walton case is an interesting story...

I -- like many others -- first heard about the Travis Walton case through the movie Fire in the Sky. The abduction scenes were terrifying, visceral and believable.

Usually when I get done watching a movie that's "based on a true story", I'll go online and read up on what actually happened. 95% of the time, Hollywood's version is based on embellishments, exaggerations or outright lies.

The funny thing is that, in the case of Walton/the movie, I actually felt the reverse for once. Hollywood's version was tamed down and realistic. Walton's account was absurd. I don't find it believable whatsoever. Him going missing, the encounter in the woods, his coworkers -- all of those things are intriguing; however, his account of what allegedly happened on the ship is so far-fetched that it comes off as a complete fabrication to me. Frankly, I see why the screenwriters decided to change the story for the movie.

originally posted by: fullthrottle

originally posted by: zazzafrazz
The abduction itself reads like a 1960s/70's technology tale. I'll have to refresh myself Ive been through this Walton case too many times on ATS, I'd rather just cut and paste as it's almost boring now, so give me time for coffee first

I have no opinion on UFO junkies around the world. I am referring to Walton alone. In this case, if you read the family history and the comments whilst he was 'abducted' it supports that they were well versed on 'aliens' and would be able to come up with the hoax.

You know, the Walton case is an interesting story...

I -- like many others -- first heard about the Travis Walton case through the movie Fire in the Sky. The abduction scenes were terrifying, visceral and believable.

Usually when I get done watching a movie that's "based on a true story", I'll go online and read up on what actually happened. 95% of the time, Hollywood's version is based on embellishments, exaggerations or outright lies.

The funny thing is that, in the case of Walton/the movie, I actually felt the reverse for once. Hollywood's version was tamed down and realistic. Walton's account was absurd. I don't find it believable whatsoever. Him going missing, the encounter in the woods, his coworkers -- all of those things are intriguing; however, his account of what allegedly happened on the ship is so far-fetched that it comes off as a complete fabrication to me. Frankly, I see why the screenwriters decided to change the story for the movie.

Could you enlighten us with what yo believe to be His Version of events and why you believe them to be so far fetched. as far as i know his version of events was pretty much what would be expected...Wake up, eyes regain focus, crap your strides and start lashing out then try and get the hell out of there amid all the confusion that must have been going on in his head at the time.. I dont see anything far fetched in that.?

As for Hollywood's version being "tamed down and realistic" to what Travis said happened, you sure you are talking about the same movie?

originally posted by: fullthrottle

originally posted by: zazzafrazz
The abduction itself reads like a 1960s/70's technology tale. I'll have to refresh myself Ive been through this Walton case too many times on ATS, I'd rather just cut and paste as it's almost boring now, so give me time for coffee first

I have no opinion on UFO junkies around the world. I am referring to Walton alone. In this case, if you read the family history and the comments whilst he was 'abducted' it supports that they were well versed on 'aliens' and would be able to come up with the hoax.

You know, the Walton case is an interesting story...

I -- like many others -- first heard about the Travis Walton case through the movie Fire in the Sky. The abduction scenes were terrifying, visceral and believable.

Usually when I get done watching a movie that's "based on a true story", I'll go online and read up on what actually happened. 95% of the time, Hollywood's version is based on embellishments, exaggerations or outright lies.

The funny thing is that, in the case of Walton/the movie, I actually felt the reverse for once. Hollywood's version was tamed down and realistic. Walton's account was absurd. I don't find it believable whatsoever. Him going missing, the encounter in the woods, his coworkers -- all of those things are intriguing; however, his account of what allegedly happened on the ship is so far-fetched that it comes off as a complete fabrication to me. Frankly, I see why the screenwriters decided to change the story for the movie.

Thanks for brightening my day with a good laugh, I really needed that.

But I do wonder, what exactly is it about Walton's account of his ordeal that you found to be far-fetched? And what made the movie studio's inventions a better choice? If you ask me, the movie did a great disservice to both Travis Walton and to the rest of us by replacing the truth with typical science fiction drek.

I can only conclude that you are not familiar with alien abduction accounts, there is not a lot in the Walton case that hasn't been reported frequently over the past fifty years.

This points to a bigger problem when it comes to raising awareness of alien contact and alien abductions, and I've brought it up before. And that is, people don't want THESE aliens to be the real aliens, They wouldn't fight so hard to deny alien contact if aliens were more like they wish or imagine them to be. They'd be okay with chewbacca, or superman, or e.t., but these aliens? No thanks.

Well, too bad. It is what it is, unfortunately. And no one wants it to be these aliens, least of all people like Travis Walton.

I find the Travis case very interesting. One thing stands out for me, and that is none of them have changed the story.

Now, if they done this for the money, then surely one of them would come forward to say it was a hoax. There would be big bucks in that, with the media and stuff. But not one of them has come forward.

As far as I know, they are not close. Apart from Travis, you hear nothing about the others.

To do a hoax like this, then surely one of them would have come forward.

This I find the most compelling

As for the lie dedecter tests. People can't win. If they fail, them people will say this proves they are lying. If they pass, the same people will say its unreliable.

Its just like the people who say "why are there only blurry photos and footage of UFOs?" Someone will show them a photo or a clear video, and they will say " looks too good to be real, so its fake"

originally posted by: Jay-morris
I find the Travis case very interesting. One thing stands out for me, and that is none of them have changed the story.

Now, if they done this for the money, then surely one of them would come forward to say it was a hoax. There would be big bucks in that, with the media and stuff. But not one of them has come forward.

As far as I know, they are not close. Apart from Travis, you hear nothing about the others.

To do a hoax like this, then surely one of them would have come forward.

This I find the most compelling

As for the lie dedecter tests. People can't win. If they fail, them people will say this proves they are lying. If they pass, the same people will say its unreliable.

Its just like the people who say "why are there only blurry photos and footage of UFOs?" Someone will show them a photo or a clear video, and they will say " looks too good to be real, so its fake"

Excellent post!. You raise several excellent posts. It boils down to this, the reason deniers and debunkers will never succeed is a simple one; they are wrong. Alien contact and alien abductions are facts.

originally posted by: SoloprotocolCould you enlighten us with what yo believe to be His Version of events and why you believe them to be so far fetched. as far as i know his version of events was pretty much what would be expected...Wake up, eyes regain focus, crap your strides and start lashing out then try and get the hell out of there amid all the confusion that must have been going on in his head at the time.. I dont see anything far fetched in that.?

That's a pretty innocent description of what he claims happened:

Walton related that he feared for his safety and got to his feet, and shouted at the creatures to stay away. He grabbed a glasslike cylinder from a nearby shelf and tried to break its tip to create a makeshift knife, but found the object unbreakable, so instead waved it at the creatures as a weapon. The trio of creatures left him in the room.[11]

...

Walton then left the "exam room" via a hallway, which led to a spherical room with only a high-backed chair placed in the center of the room. Though he was afraid there might be someone seated in the chair, Walton says he walked towards it. As he did, lights began to appear in the room. The chair was empty, so Walton says he sat in it. When he did, the room was filled with lights, similar to stars projected on a round planetarium ceiling. [12]

The chair was equipped on the left arm with a single short thick lever with an oddly shaped molded handle atop some dark brown material. On the right arm, there was an illuminated, lime-green screen about five inches square with black lines intersected at all angles.[13]

When Walton pushed the lever, he reported that the stars rotated around him slowly. When he released the lever, the stars remained at their new position. He decided to stop manipulating the lever, since he had no idea what it might do.[14]
He left the chair, and the stars disappeared. Walton thought he had seen a rectangular outline on the rounded wall — perhaps a door — and went to look for it.[15]

Just then, Walton heard a sound behind him. He turned, expecting more of the short, large eyed creatures, but was pleasantly surprised to see a tall human figure wearing blue coveralls with a glassy helmet. At the time, Walton said, he did not realize how odd the man's eyes were: larger than normal, and a bright gold color. [16]

Walton says he then asked the man a number of questions, but the man only grinned and motioned for Walton to follow him. Walton also said that because of the man's helmet he might have been unable to hear him, so he followed the man down a hallway which led to a door and a steep ramp down to a large room Walton described as similar to an aircraft hangar. Walton says he realized he had just left a disc-shaped craft similar to the one he had seen in the forest just before he had been struck by the bluish light, but the craft was perhaps twice as large.[17]

In the hangar-like room, Walton reported seeing other disc-shaped craft. The man led him to another room, containing three more humans — a woman and two men — resembling the helmeted man. These people did not wear helmets, so Walton says he began asking questions of them. They responded with the same dull grin, and led him by his arm to a small table.[1]
Once he was seated on the table, Walton says he realized the woman held a device like an oxygen mask, which she placed on his face. Before he could fight back, Walton says he passed out.[18]

So basically, Walton's account includes him:

- scaring the aliens away after waving a makeshift weapon at them. I have a very hard time believing this, especially because almost every abduction account consists of people describing a feeling or paralysis; now, whatever, maybe you can argue that whatever sedative they gave him wore off, but this just sounds like something out of an adventure movie to me.

- going in the control center of a UFO, sitting down in a chair, playing with a lever and evidently moving the UFO around. Give me a break.

- casually asking questions to human-looking aliens wearing "blue overalls and a glassy helmet". The reply by simply grinning. This sounds suspiciously like something out of a dream.

- note that this entire time, after heroically scaring aliens away, he's evidently just freely roaming this UFO. Sure. I bet.

I rewatched the abduction clip from Fire in the Sky. I forgot about the part where he breaks out of his little pod and starts exploring, or when he falls down the little slide/chute. That part was cheesy. All I remembered from the movie was him laying helplessly on the table while they experimented on him. If someone tells me they were abducted and were operated-on with terrifying instrumentation, I can believe it (the movie). If you tell me you got up and walked around the UFO, and even started moving/controlling it a little bit, then my skepticism jumps dramatically (the "truth").

Walton's additional details (i.e. the stuff I outlined above) is what caused me to have immense skepticism. In many ways, it's followed the same progression as Rendlesham Forest. Rendlesham Forest is one of the most incredible UFO cases in history, but James Penniston's new information from the 90's is just absurd (the stuff about getting a binary code message, etc). When I learned more about Walton's case, I became more skeptical; similarly, when I learned about about Penniston's alleged encounter, I became more skeptical. (Note that I still find the Rendlesham Forest incident very compelling, I just sincerely question Penniston's credibility, and think he completely fabricated the binary message stuff.)

a reply to: fullthrottle

You can't say he is lying, just because you find it hard to believe what he says about his account.

One thing is clear. If this was a hoax, one of the men would have come forward. Its not like they are a tight knit group of friends. Far from it.

If it was a hoax, then obviously it was for attention and money. All of them would have been in on it, so, if it was for attention and money, at least one of them would come forward to say it was a hoax, because that would bring them attention and money.

But nothing. They have all stuck to the story of what they saw that night. And that in itself, is compelling.

originally posted by: Jay-morris
a reply to: fullthrottle
You can't say he is lying, just because you find it hard to believe what he says about his account.

If somebody told me that they saw a ghost in their house, I'd entertain the idea (assuming I thought they were a credible witness). If they told me that they woke up to an apparition sitting on their couch playing their PlayStation 4, I'd laugh it off and dismiss it as rubbish. I mean, yeah, sure, technically it could have happened and I have no proof they're lying, but at some point I draw the line between giving someone the benefit of the doubt and dismissing it; Walton claiming he used a joystick to rotate/maneuver a UFO crosses that line for me.

But nothing. They have all stuck to the story of what they saw that night. And that in itself, is compelling.

I agree, some of the story is still compelling. Again, see my Rendlesham Forest comparison. James Penniston has lost all credibility to me because of that binary message nonsense, but that doesn't mean that I dismiss the Rendlesham story completely.

Walton's abduction account may be untrue for any number of reasons: outright lying (Walton stood to profit for the book/movie/etc), false memories, him remembering dreams and not reality, etc. However, it's totally possible that Walton was actually abducted, but that what he described is not true (i.e. they're not mutually exclusive). And just to be clear, I'm not necessarily accusing Walton of having nefarious intentions. It's totally possible that he believes all of those events occurred, but that they actually didn't.

The further you get from the core story the more muddied it becomes..Memories are strange like that with humans.

a reply to: fullthrottle

Walton claiming he used a joystick to rotate/maneuver a UFO crosses that line for me.

- going in the control center of a UFO, sitting down in a chair, playing with a lever and evidently moving the UFO around. Give me a break.

This is twice now you've gotten the facts wrong, so let's set the record straight.

Here's the quote you're working from:

Walton then left the "exam room" via a hallway, which led to a spherical room with only a high-backed chair placed in the center of the room. Though he was afraid there might be someone seated in the chair, Walton says he walked towards it. As he did, lights began to appear in the room. The chair was empty, so Walton says he sat in it. When he did, the room was filled with lights, similar to stars projected on a round planetarium ceiling. [12]

The chair was equipped on the left arm with a single short thick lever with an oddly shaped molded handle atop some dark brown material. On the right arm, there was an illuminated, lime-green screen about five inches square with black lines intersected at all angles.[13]

When Walton pushed the lever, he reported that the stars rotated around him slowly. When he released the lever, the stars remained at their new position. He decided to stop manipulating the lever, since he had no idea what it might do.[14]
He left the chair, and the stars disappeared.

Walton never said anything about rotating, maneuvering, or moving the UFO around. That is entirely your invention.

Walton describes lights similar to stars projected on a round planetarium ceiling, those lights operated by a lever. When he sat in the chair, the lights turned on, when he got out of the chair the lights turned off.

Hope that helps.

This is twice now you've gotten the facts wrong, so let's set the record straight.

Walton never said anything about rotating, maneuvering, or moving the UFO around. That is entirely your invention.

Yes, actually, he did say exactly that. Here is an excerpt from his book (available online at his website: www.travis-walton.com...):

Trembling, I sat down on the hard surface of the chair. I put my hand onto the molded T-grip of the lever. The handle was slightly small for my hand. The whole chair seemed a little too small. I rotated the handle of the lever forward, feeling the slow, fluid resistance of it. I felt suddenly disoriented as the stars began moving downward in front of me, in unison. Quickly I pulled my hand off the lever, which returned to its original vertical position. The stars stopped moving, but remained where they were when I released the lever.

If this thing is flying, I could crash it or throw it off course and get lost or something! I resolved not to tamper with those controls anymore. I might escalate a desperate situation into a fatal disaster.

There is no disputing this. It's in his own book, clear as day. A planetarium does not get thrown off course. A planetarium does not crash. A spaceship does.

And please, let's not devolve into semantics here. Yes, I know he said "if this thing is flying" and did not definitively say that he for sure was moving it, but that's obviously what he was implying; he even stopped twiddling around with it out of fear of crashing it.

originally posted by: fullthrottle

This is twice now you've gotten the facts wrong, so let's set the record straight.

Walton never said anything about rotating, maneuvering, or moving the UFO around. That is entirely your invention.

Yes, actually, he did say exactly that. Here is an excerpt from his book (available online at his website: www.travis-walton.com...):

Trembling, I sat down on the hard surface of the chair. I put my hand onto the molded T-grip of the lever. The handle was slightly small for my hand. The whole chair seemed a little too small. I rotated the handle of the lever forward, feeling the slow, fluid resistance of it. I felt suddenly disoriented as the stars began moving downward in front of me, in unison. Quickly I pulled my hand off the lever, which returned to its original vertical position. The stars stopped moving, but remained where they were when I released the lever.

If this thing is flying, I could crash it or throw it off course and get lost or something! I resolved not to tamper with those controls anymore. I might escalate a desperate situation into a fatal disaster.

There is no disputing this. It's in his own book, clear as day. A planetarium does not get thrown off course. A planetarium does not crash. A spaceship does.

And please, let's not devolve into semantics here. Yes, I know he said "if this thing is flying" and did not definitively say that he for sure was moving it, but that's obviously what he was implying; he even stopped twiddling around with it out of fear of crashing it.

Nice try, no cigar.

He never even said the ship was flying. He also never said he was flying the ship or moving or maneuvering the ship around in any way, as you allege. He never gave any indication in any way that he was controlling the ship.

That is entirely your invention.

He clearly describes a room like a planetarium, where there was one chair in the center of this room with a curved ceiling, and when he sat in the chair, points of light like stars were projected in the room. when he moved the lever, the lights moved. When he stood up, the lights went out.

Seems pretty clear it was like a planetarium, a map room, or a room to chart navigation.

Travis Walton seems to understand this, and you quote him basically saying just that:

"If this thing is flying, I could crash it or throw it off course and get lost or something!"

By adjusting the star map, or the plotted course, he was concerned he could cause it to crash, or throw it off course or get lost.

He never gave any indication he thought he was controlling the ship, and he himself said they were projected lights like stars.

Hope this helps.

I'd just like to point out that this event did not take place because amateur astronomers would have observed a giant spacecraft that night. Nasa scientist and space programs around the world would have observed this space craft entering our solar system, coming into orbit, and entering Earth's atmosphere. In addition the space craft would have been observed leaving our atmosphere, orbit and solar system. It would have also been observed by now if the space craft remained hiding covertly in our solar system since the 1975 abduction. Debunked.

originally posted by: game over man
I'd just like to point out that this event did not take place because amateur astronomers would have observed a giant spacecraft that night. Nasa scientist and space programs around the world would have observed this space craft entering our solar system, coming into orbit, and entering Earth's atmosphere. In addition the space craft would have been observed leaving our atmosphere, orbit and solar system. It would have also been observed by now if the space craft remained hiding covertly in our solar system since the 1975 abduction. Debunked.

A few points, if I may.

1.The disc shaped craft was perhaps twenty feet across, according to the six witnesses. Not quite the "giant" spacecraft you describe.

2. These craft have been seen accelerating to thousands of miles an hour almost instantly,perhaps faster than an eye may follow.

3. These craft have been seen disappearing and appearing before witnesses eyes. it may be cloaking technology, which is not only feasible but currently under development.
So much for telescopes.

4. These craft seen disappearing may not be cloaking, but traveling into and out of another dimension, or a wormhole, or bending space, which may be feasible, according to recent experiments. I don't think it is wise for you to assume they travel conventionally through space, like we have done.

So...

Unbunked.