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Telegraph: Putin's war of attrition: Is Lithuania next?

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posted on Mar, 23 2015 @ 06:04 AM
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Two headlines just popped up on my radar:


Putin's war of attrition: Is Lithuania next? (The Telegraph)


Fearful of Russia, Lithuanian volunteers sign up fearing a repeat of Ukraine (The Independent)


Speculations about Lithuania being potentially on the menu have been around for a while. The reason why this got my attention is because just a few days ago I wrote this thread:

Putin's Return from Underworld, Russian Fleet in Total Solar Eclipse and a Warning to Lithuania?




Fire in Moscow at Novodevichy Convent - a warning to Poland and/or Lithuania?

The night before Putin returned and speculations about his fate reached fever pitch people here on ATS and all over the world witnessed a fire breaking out on Moscow live cams. To many it looked like the fire was inside the Kremlin itself - a rumor soon debunked.


Moscow's historic Novodevichy Convent catches fire close to Kremlin
Live footage of Moscow led some to believe the Kremlin was on fire, but it was the Novodevichy Convent that was ablaze...

tel egraph.co.uk

It turned out to be just the scaffolding of a tower undergoing renovation that was on fire. The building itself reportedly was unharmed. So this fire just coincidentally while all eyes are turned to the Kremlin? Or was it laid on purpose (without damaging the building) to draw attention to this:


Vasili III, the Grand Prince of Moscow, founded the Novodevichy Convent in 1524 in commemoration of his conquest of Smolensk in 1514.
Wikipedia - Novodevichy Convent


The Siege of Smolensk of 1514 took place during the fourth Muscovite–Lithuanian War (1512–1520).
Growing and strengthening Grand Duchy of Moscow clashed with the Grand Duchy of Lithuania over the territories of the former Kievan Rus'. The tension resulted in a series of wars from 1492. In November 1512, the war resumed again. The main objective of Moscow was to capture Smolensk, an important fortress and trade center, that was part of Lithuania since 1404.
Wikipedia - Siege of Smolensk (1514)



Smolensk is of course also highly symbolic regarding Lithuania's neighbor Poland. We are approaching the 5th anniversary (10 April) of the Smolensk plane crash that killed

all 96 people on board. These included President of Poland Lech Kaczyński and his wife Maria, former President of Poland in exile Ryszard Kaczorowski, the chief of the Polish General Staff and other senior Polish military officers, the president of the National Bank of Poland, Poland's deputy foreign minister, Polish government officials, 18 members of the Polish parliament, senior members of the Polish clergy, and relatives of victims of the Katyn massacre. They were en route from Warsaw to attend an event marking the 70th anniversary of the massacre; the site is approximately 19 kilometres (12 mi) west of Smolensk.
Wikipedia - 2010 Polish Air Force Tu-154 crash

In the Katyn massacre about 22 000 polish officers and intelligentsia where killed by the Soviets.


Here is an article from 2014 revisiting events post Ukraine:


A plane crash at Smolensk in Russia four years ago wiped out the Warsaw leadership. It used to be seen as an accident. Now, after Putin’s games in Ukraine, people aren’t so sure.
Did Putin Blow Up the Whole Polish Government in 2010? A Second Look. (The Daily Beast)




posted on Mar, 23 2015 @ 06:13 AM
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a reply to: MindBodySpiritComplex

Russia is defending itself regardless of what Western MSM writes and blatantly lies about

JUST LIKE ON ATS

I've never seen Russian shills on ATS till US shills started shredding Russia and blaming it for every single evil thing US did


It is called Tit for Tat

Want Russia to be the good guy, stop attacking and disrespecting Russia on their own border by organizing coup in Ukraine.

Simple no ?

Enough said
edit on 23-3-2015 by PrettyPlease1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 23 2015 @ 06:41 AM
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a reply to: PrettyPlease1

It is funny how people will instantly try to interpret any post and the posters motivation along the lines of pro and con, good and evil, etc. I am just somebody without an agenda trying to make sense of the world around him.

I try connecting dots, seeing patterns and being a spiritual person will also pay attention to aspects that for most people are quite "out there".

I actually agree with your opinion to a much larger degree than you suspect. But in all likelihood still less than you would like me to... It's complicated.



posted on Mar, 23 2015 @ 06:45 AM
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The Baltic States are jittery because of Russian meddling in Ukraine and other areas - Transnistria, Ossetia, Georgia and so on. It's becoming a Russian habit, so there is a "are we next" mind-set.
In addition, the history of Soviet occupation of these states has left a sour taste in the mouth.

However, two things to bear in mind.

1. These are NATO states.
2. The Russian-ethnic populations may not be so easily manipulated, after all, these Baltic nations have fast increasing GDP now that they are in the EU and corruption is low. Russia has a decreasing GDP and high corruption.



posted on Mar, 23 2015 @ 06:56 AM
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a reply to: PrettyPlease1




I've never seen Russian shills on ATS till US shills started shredding Russia and blaming it for every single evil thing US did


And that just shows you that they only come around when Russia is discussed. It's easy to spot when you look at thread and post history.

Who has blamed Russia for everything evil the US has done, as that is just a bit backwards when it's the US that get's blamed for everything that has happened in history.



Want Russia to be the good guy, stop attacking and disrespecting Russia on their own border by organizing coup in Ukraine.


As I said they show their hands.



posted on Mar, 23 2015 @ 06:58 AM
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a reply to: MindBodySpiritComplex




I am just somebody without an agenda trying to make sense of the world around him.



Except when it comes to Russia, if you don't see them as the innocent victim you have an agenda.



posted on Mar, 23 2015 @ 07:10 AM
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And yet, despite all this fear mongering, based on absolutely nothing more than the "opinions" (often delusional) of TV talking heads, their on-call military pundits and the usual lying politicians, we have absolutely no proof whatsoever of Russia meddling or planning to attack anyone at all.
The ones doing all the fear / war mongering are the usual idiots that ramp up conflict after conflict.

I mean, lets face it, if Russia really wanted to invade all the baltic states, they'd have done so well before now, not wait and allow those places to fill with US / NATO troops, armour and aircraft. What is also missing from all these allegations and propaganda pieces is motive or critical thinking about the aftermath and sustainability of such moves by Russia. Quite simply, Russia has no need, or desire, to invade, annex or otherwise become responsible for other states as the cost, both economically and in body count would be ridiculous. However, that doesn't stop the spinmasters from peddling the crap over and over again.

I will say though that it is very naughty of Russia to put their country right on the doorstep of all those NATO and US bases. How dare they!



posted on Mar, 23 2015 @ 07:33 AM
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a reply to: Britguy

To even occupy half the Ukraine Russia needs almost its whole army to secure it (pssst, don`t tell anyone of the MSM talking heads that, they might start to realize how utterly ridiculously their stories are becoming).

Crimea with the fast majority of the people not opposing is different story (most of the ones who were, have left to the Ukraine)...so Russia has no interest in occupying other territories...they know those numbers (US needed 500.000 troops to secure Afghanistan, that`s the whole US army).

Stratfor analysis about Ukraine/Russia and the numbers involved
edit on 23 3 2015 by BornAgainAlien because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 23 2015 @ 07:38 AM
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I read her from some wise poster that Putin was doing exactly what Hitler had done before WW2.
I think that was a very reasonable assumption Putin wants the former USSR rebuilt and he is slowly building the plan to do it.
Lithuania is next, I spoke to a Lithuanian recently and he said the fear from Russia was palpable.

Make no mistake, Putin has an agenda, like him or no, Putin is an empire builder and nothing good will come of that.
The US has been doing it for years and I am not suggesting otherwise, plenty of megalomaniacs around at the moment.



posted on Mar, 23 2015 @ 07:42 AM
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originally posted by: Britguy
And yet, despite all this fear mongering, based on absolutely nothing more than the "opinions" (often delusional) of TV talking heads, their on-call military pundits and the usual lying politicians, we have absolutely no proof whatsoever of Russia meddling or planning to attack anyone at all.

Tell that to this guy...

news.postimees.ee...

He was attacked and captured by Russians on Estonian territory. He has now been held for about 6 months by Russia.

Or how about the 80,000 Russian that were conducting an unscheduled 'snap' drill beside the Finnish boarder?

yle.fi...

But you might be right...it's all just nothing.

Or you might know absolutely nothing and Russia might be not only planning but also preparing to invade ANOTHER country.



posted on Mar, 23 2015 @ 07:56 AM
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a reply to: Britguy
You want proof...see how much of Ukraine has been taken over by Russia. How many square miles have been annexed; the taking over of their primary naval base; corrupting their naval commander the list goes on. Governers murdered, rebels being weaponised and trained by Russia. Planes shot down. I'm bored of listing but a few examples of how Russia are invading. Remember Georgia. It's frustrating to read posts like yours. They can do it and are doing it. There is plenty of proof



posted on Mar, 23 2015 @ 07:57 AM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Also Russia would expose itself potentially to a Chinese land grab should things become really extreme. In such a case the new border might be the Ural mountains.


World map shows country size based on population and not land mass


dailymail.co.uk



posted on Mar, 23 2015 @ 07:59 AM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h



As I said they show their hands.


Indeed. Kinda like when a members every thread authored since last august is about Russia/Ukraine. Hmm
edit on 23-3-2015 by sosobad because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 23 2015 @ 08:03 AM
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a reply to: noeltrotsky

That the Estonian intel guy they picked up when he crossed the border?

As for the military drills, Russia didn't start doing those until NATO started moving lots of personnel and armour around and specifically to neighbouring states.

Lets be honest here, the whole damned mess is entirely US driven. Sure, the EU leaders jumped in as well, but are only doing as they are told, bribed or blackmailed into, as usual.

I prefer to use the common sense approach and critical thinking, not believing all the crap that known liars (politicians and MSM) throw at us and tell us to believe.

It's like all the BS about Iran over the years, everything they have said or done in response to hostile acts is framed as them being the bad guys. Now it's Russia's turn to be the bad guy of the moment. All they have done is react to hostile action, yet they are presented as the biggest threat to world peace by known serial liars, pedophiles, mass murderers and psychopaths. Why would I even consider believing anything presented to me as fact by people like that?



posted on Mar, 23 2015 @ 08:05 AM
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a reply to: MindBodySpiritComplex

Even for China that would all be way to costly. So China just does what makes much more sense, cooperation.

China also knows they`ll be watching "mushrooms," hence all the crap about Russia having to fear China is also bullocks.



posted on Mar, 23 2015 @ 08:06 AM
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originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
they know those numbers (US needed 500.000 troops to secure Afghanistan, that`s the whole US army).


Ah, those facts that get in the way of a good fantasy. The numbers of US military personnel in Afghanistan peaked at c. 100,000 in 2010. Somewhat less than the numbers of Soviet military personnel in the country. Not sure where you plucked "500,000" from.

Anyway, to the OP. Russia does not need to invade the Baltic states. They just need to meddle and attempt to destablalise, and cause division. They could try to do this by working on the ethnic Russians, who comprise a significant minority. This is a tactic Russia has been quite successful with and the examples are numerous.



posted on Mar, 23 2015 @ 08:11 AM
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Putin this and Putin that. The silence of his guns is deafening.



posted on Mar, 23 2015 @ 08:13 AM
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a reply to: noeltrotsky


Or how about the 80,000 Russian that were conducting an unscheduled 'snap' drill beside the Finnish boarder?

You mean Russian troops conducting drills inside their own border?

What_a_crime…
edit on 23-3-2015 by intrptr because: bb code and change



posted on Mar, 23 2015 @ 08:19 AM
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originally posted by: rossacus
a reply to: Britguy
You want proof...see how much of Ukraine has been taken over by Russia. How many square miles have been annexed; the taking over of their primary naval base; corrupting their naval commander the list goes on. Governers murdered, rebels being weaponised and trained by Russia. Planes shot down. I'm bored of listing but a few examples of how Russia are invading. Remember Georgia. It's frustrating to read posts like yours. They can do it and are doing it. There is plenty of proof


Oh man, where to start?

How many square miles have been annexed by Russia? Please inform us as I don't know.

Russia took over Ukraine's primary naval base? You mean the one Russia had a long lease to operate from, with thousands of troops and other personnel based there. That one?

Governors being murdered? Seen the "suicide" rate of politicians in Kiev and the South / West Ukraine recently?

As for Georgia, it was that other idiot Saakashvili (now an adviser to Porky Poroshenko) that initiated hostilities against 2 breakaway republics, and got slapped down by Russia for it.


edit on 597Mon, 23 Mar 2015 08:20:31 -05002031800000015 by Britguy because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 23 2015 @ 08:20 AM
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Why do they keep pushing these headlines? Putin isn't stupid, he's not going to attack the Baltic states.

The only way things will progress now, is if there is either a false flag event, or the Russian speaking minority decide to rebel.

And Lithuania is the least likely, as the Russian speaking minority only makes up 5% of the population.



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