Radiation, climate force Bikini Islanders to seek US refuge

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Maxmars

The following video shows all that one need know, in order to understand the responsibility that the US government ought to take in this matter...

I think this just about covers it.

theres much more one needs to know to create an informed opinion

how about they miscalculated the energy of the bomb which injured many American military and scientists too

After the counter reached fifty milliroentgen, I had to turn the knob to change scales. The pointer kept climbing. I called for everyone to get inside. It still was far below dangerous radiation levels, but we had no idea how fast and how much it might increase. A dose of 75 to 125 roentgen received in a short interval may produce nausea and other symptoms of radiation sickness. About 450 roentgen might be fatal.

sonicbomb.com...
name=News&file=article&sid=104

I got to say I sincerely feel bad for the site owners..they seem like good people who are invested in this and hearts in the right place, but i get why phage and a lot of others left. theres so many here who are so stupid..im going back to lurking

a reply to: msallo

I fail entirely to understand what you mean.

I know what happened at that atoll, I know that some servicemen, islanders, and the crew of a Japanese fishing vessel which had strayed inside the security cordon, were all affected by radioactive fallout or other effects of the blast.

The place is still so radioactive that to remain there for any significant period would cause one to exceed the maximum permissible dose of radiation, as defined by the US standard on that point. So, unless you have any evidence that the atoll is actually in a perfectly liveable state, that food crops can be grown on the island without posing a risk to the health and well being of the Bikinians, that radiation levels are at background levels and are not a concern (which is categorically not the case, so good luck with that), then I fail entirely to see what your problem with what I said was.

Castle Bravo alone would have been enough to render this atoll a wasteland, but it was far from the only test performed there. The reality is, that the people of Bikini need to be re-homed, and there is only one party involved with the power, or the responsibility to do so.

a reply to: TrueBrit

the last part was most certainly not for you i really apologize...i do believe $150 million inflated can re home 160 people..whered that money go? you liberals labour would hand out every last dollar of not your monies if you could

I don't understand why these people are still living in exile ?

Why weren't they set up with a new permanent home to resettle in way back when ?

I had no idea this situation even existed...

a reply to: msallo


I think there is a difference between trying to move people to several different locations, which is simple migration, and moving an entire ethnic group to an entirely new location. I do not think that the payout will be enough, to ensure that the Bikinians will be able to not only purchase land, but create a life for themselves on it.

They should have been allowed to move the first time they bought it up, and it would have been cheaper to do so. Similarly, when the pipes in my plumbing system complain to me once, I deal with the issue immediately. If I do not, sooner or later a much more expensive and greater problem comes about, and I will be forced to pay out more money than necessary to fix it.

This is holds true in this case also.

As for your comment about liberals... If it is liberal to want people who are responsible for a thing, to take responsibility for it, then perhaps I am. All I know is, that if my nation was seen as responsible for such a thing, I would want that situation rectified completely.

a reply to: TrueBrit

this happened 50+ years ago. most are dead the rest have moved on. they dont want to live together as a community as they did. majority of those named as parties have never ever stepped foot on this island. your tender bleeding heart is being played. its like you cant even recognize whats going on. youve got putin and the mid east all figured out, but keep paying unaffected tribesman until they say enough. i do not condone what happened but it is what it is

a reply to: msallo

It has been fifty plus years, you are right.

And in all that time, the islanders were not granted lands of their own to live on, but had to live on the side of airstrips, and in other improper circumstances, as a result of the failure of the US government to address the situation, a situation which remains to this day.

Shouldn't we just send them to an Indian reservation? I thought that was what we did to folks after we were done exploiting their land and culture.

I agree that this is awful BUT I do not think we should find them US land. If we give them part of Maui as they want (the residents of Maui do not want this to happen), will this be considered US land? Will they become US citizens that pay taxes? What do you do with the Americans that you are kicking off of their land for nothing that they have done?

originally posted by: hutch622
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

And were paid $150 million as compensation.

You see thats the problem right there . There are some things that money cannot compensate for . What happened to these people is one of them . I dont know the right answer , but walking away is not one of them . We destroyed their lives , but wait , we gave them money . Move along , all is good .

OK, so much like many other forms of grievance, this will never go away and nothing will ever be enough.

Thanks for explaining that. Now, we can move on because there is nothing we can do, so we might as well not even try.

originally posted by: CranialSponge
I don't understand why these people are still living in exile ?

Why weren't they set up with a new permanent home to resettle in way back when ?

I had no idea this situation even existed...

I am guessing that they were told they could go home because it was thought they would be able to do so at the time.

Look at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. At the time, would it have been suspected this would be much different?

As for why they aren't resettled and moved on ... I couldn't say. It seems that they were paid out a substantial sum of money at one point that would have been quite enough for them to make a stake elsewhere. Did that money disappear or was it swindled from them? Or did some of them see a better future for themselves if they kept a permanent refugee class much like certain other groups in the world?

a reply to: Maxmars

I hate that their homeland was nuked and they have nowhere to go, now that their new homes are flooding out. I hope they don't come here to the mainland. I don't mean to sound unwelcoming or xenophobic. What I mean is it would be so different to the way of life that they're used to. It would be nice if they could settle on one of the Hawaiian islands so they can at least have the climate they're used to living in.
I know that it's possible to make artificial islands. Here is an example: artificial islands
The following is an analysis of the environmental consequences and international legal regime. Link< br />
Here is more information on artificial islands: Link

Richart Sowa built one using plastic bottles.



It would be great if they could have enough money to have one built so they can live on it. I think it would take a huge amount of money and resources to do it; though.

I truly appreciate the discussion as it has taken place.

As I pondered the thread earlier I expected that we must accept that the nature of this dilemma is to defy any utopian sense of justice.

What was done to the region, as well as the why, and by whom, becomes pointless once we observe people facing a devastatingly harsh future; should they be forced to simply accept that their ancestral lands are lost to them forever by natures' action; hastened by man's enterprise.

Ultimately, we can adopt the standard clinically detached position fostered by our information culture, this thing is happening... and these people will either find someplace new, or eventually devolve into an 'endangered culture' with bleak prospects for it's posterity.

Don't get me wrong, I am not of the naive sort who believe this is exactly an 'existential' matter; at least not in the sense that many who's heritage from the area live elsewhere now. However, we find it rather easy to tolerate global duress at a scale which often belies our sensibilities; the likes of human trafficking, mass starvation, genocide, criminal exploitation of 'resources.' I know full well that many of us may not return to see what the ultimate outcome of this crisis will be.

The atoll itself is just another ecological load bearing structure. We beat it rather harshly; and in a magnificent symphony of glorious ignorance, architects of our society sealed the near future for a isolated society of individuals who only now, apparently, realize that their children must bear the burden of being those who will be called sore losers, who should be happy with what they have now, whether or not they have an ancestral land.

I really can't debate the 'morally wrong' aspect of the weapons development and testing stuff that happened... mainly because we were catastrophically ignorant of the magnitude of danger it represented -- back then engineers and physicists didn't play with ecologists and 'soft science' types. In many ways we remain equally ignorant today... only tomorrow will tell if I am wrong.