Where does you heart truely lie?

Greetings ATS,

There is much talk about treason as of late. Many point a finger at Obama and his administration and rightfully so. Our department of justice under Holder has been the most lawless in history and our POTUS has arguably side stepped Congress to enact draconian laws that have been historically approved through Congress.

The inevitable rebuttal to the above statements will be no doubt "Bush" and to that I say, we should have stopped it then but..... We didn't did we? Because we let one criminal go does that mean we let an entire criminal administration off without accountability? Are we as Americans, so polarized that we displace liberty so that we can achieve small and perceived political "wins"?

America is not a product of the government. America is an ideal. America is land mass. America is what all of our forefathers fought and died for so that we would be free from government tyranny. America was born and birthed on the notion of natural rights, the rights of all people. America was born at the end of a muzzle, at the end of a cannon, at the end of peoples wits that suffered tyranny and would not be subdued.

America is the land, the idea and the promise of liberty. If we are threatened with the loss of any of the three, we are giving up what America truly is. No terrorist or terrorist group could ever hope to invade or conquer America and being that is indisputable fact it makes no sense to give up even one non essential liberty to fight it.

The government is unable in any fashion to offer security from terrorism. They are unable to offer security for a home break in. They are unable to offer security from their own police force. We do not need protection from the government, we never have and never will as long as your God given rights are in place. People are meant to protect themselves in the moment and if a crime is committed, reported to the government after the fact of self preservation.

Being American doesn't mean that you have to side with one aisle or the other. It doesn't mean that you have to agree with the POTUS or the Senate. Being American doesn't mean you have to follow blind orders. Being American doesn't mean you can't question your government. Being American means you are free to decide how you feel and make informed choices based on information you are still allowed to digest.

Please, exercise that right and contemplate what being an American not only means to you but what it collectively means to all of us in the great country. Because the government may have lost it's way does NOT mean that we have to.

Governments will always end up being corrupt, that has been the common theme throughout all of recorded history. Those who gain power are enticed by it and will do anything to gain more of it, including lying to the people and accepting bribes. It was bound to happen sooner or later, corruption always finds its way into the hearts of those in power, it is the way of things.

What we need to do is institute a way of self-governance with accountability. Not sure how that can be achieved but we need to figure something out because the way we have things set up right now just doesn't work, never has and never will. Maybe we need to go back to the stone age. Animals get along just fine without governments and bureaucracy, maybe we need to do away with our current systems and revert back into the ones that nature set up for us in the beginning.

In my opinion we have gone too far now to a point where we cannot turn back. I hate to say it but maybe us wiping ourselves out is the best option for us and our planet. I will continue to fight for what is right though, I will never give up, but that doesn't blind me to the fact that we are utterly broken as a species at this point.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

What we need to do is institute a way of self-governance with accountability.

Like make people get a job to buy their own healthcare and birth control and food and shelter? Good idea, until the have nots cry foul.

a reply to: msallo

Like I said, we have gone too deep to turn back now. We are so dependent on the corrupt system that has been built around us and before us that it is virtually impossible to wean ourselves off of it. It's like an alcoholic, when you take the alcohol away there are nasty side effects that come with it.

I don't know how such a system could be instituted but it would be the only way to save ourselves.

a reply to: Helious

This is Quite the Text! Thought It was Fitting for Me to Place the 6th Star in it's slot, and draw up the 6th Flag! Syx. Late!

a reply to: msallo

Like make people get a job to buy their own healthcare and birth control and food and shelter?

I guarantee you the government isn't broke because of poor people.

a reply to: Helious

Bravo! Broad in scope but, concise and thorough in execution.

I think your message is clear.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: msallo

Like I said, we have gone too deep to turn back now. We are so dependent on the corrupt system that has been built around us and before us that it is virtually impossible to wean ourselves off of it. It's like an alcoholic, when you take the alcohol away there are nasty side effects that come with it.

I don't know how such a system could be instituted but it would be the only way to save ourselves.

Please dont include me in your feckless group. I promise I would be ok.

a reply to: msallo

Too late, you're already part of the system.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Governments will always end up being corrupt

That in point of fact is the heart of this thread. Our declaration of Independence, Our Constitution and our Bill of Rights gave us recourse to government corruption. Our founding fathers, you know, the ones that Liberal schools teach wouldn't be welcome in today's military told us this would happen. What now is to be done?

We have the benefit.... The gift of not needing bloodshed. We have the gift of our founding documents. This gives us all legal right to challenge tyranny WITHOUT taking up arms if enough of us wake the hell up and realize what is happening.

Should we turn a blind eye, should we choose to not care and should we choose to let the government right the ship themselves...... Well, the writing is on the wall. The government with the formation of the DHS has been carefully plotting a solution to insurrection because the policies they continue to endorse, enforce and enact defy the Constitution at every turn. They are wiping their asses with it and betting nothing will be done about it.

At the same time, they are hedging their bets by militarizing the police force and turning the DHS into a military agency that bypasses Constitutional protections and justifies it all with the blanket threat of terrorism, most of which they have manufactured or funded to aid the agenda.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: msallo

Like make people get a job to buy their own healthcare and birth control and food and shelter?

I guarantee you the government isn't broke because of poor people.

Good jingle. You want me to get hardcore? Poor people are inferior in some way. Deficient in brain, brawn, effort, whatever. Obviously outliers exist, but there isnt a super conspiracy holding certain people down. So point to the government, Ill rebut with

An individual’s likelihood of being a Democrat decreases with every additional dollar he or she earns. Democrats have a huge advantage (63 percent) with voters earning less than $15,000 per year.

And whatever happens next Im good with.

There are democrats and there are republicans. That means there will always be two sides to every political story. Democrats think Obama is doing a great job. Republicans thought Bush did a great job. Democrats thought Clinton did a great job. Republicans thought Reagan did a great job. And they spit venom at each other all day long as if that will make their beliefs come true.

This is the government our founding fathers warned us about. These are the people, the ones you see every day, who will stand by while the government takes away every last bit of freedom they ever had, or thought they had, and sit there waiting for their government cheese. It makes me sick.

I often wonder, when was the last time anyone felt like their congressmen actually represented them. Personally, I have never felt like my views were represented in congress. I am told I have representation...but they never vote the way I want them to. So how exactly does that work? These people get elected by telling voters this, that or the other thing then go on to do none of it. And its not a democrat or republican problem. Its an American problem.

The only hope for this country is for the people to demand change and make it happen. As noted earlier in this thread, we are probably too late. But that doesn't mean it isn't worth doing, or at least trying. One thing I know for sure - it will take a united effort from all of the citizens of this once great nation to save it from the powers that be. Anything less than that and we might as well stick out our hands and wait for our government cheese...

a reply to: msallo

Your "on" about completely nothing besides derailing the thread. Get on topic or get out......

a reply to: Helious

im out..revel in your internet big wheel

edit: I would like to reply to the post below but southpark internet guy (please google) said no

a reply to: msallo

Poor people are inferior in some way. Deficient in brain, brawn, effort, whatever.

No, thats megalomaniacal rich people you are talking about.

"Poor" people don't have anything. Barking up the wrong tree.

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
There are democrats and there are republicans. That means there will always be two sides to every political story. Democrats think Obama is doing a great job. Republicans thought Bush did a great job. Democrats thought Clinton did a great job. Republicans thought Reagan did a great job. And they spit venom at each other all day long as if that will make their beliefs come true.

This is the government our founding fathers warned us about. These are the people, the ones you see every day, who will stand by while the government takes away every last bit of freedom they ever had, or thought they had, and sit there waiting for their government cheese. It makes me sick.

I often wonder, when was the last time anyone felt like their congressmen actually represented them. Personally, I have never felt like my views were represented in congress. I am told I have representation...but they never vote the way I want them to. So how exactly does that work? These people get elected by telling voters this, that or the other thing then go on to do none of it. And its not a democrat or republican problem. Its an American problem.

The only hope for this country is for the people to demand change and make it happen. As noted earlier in this thread, we are probably too late. But that doesn't mean it isn't worth doing, or at least trying. One thing I know for sure - it will take a united effort from all of the citizens of this once great nation to save it from the powers that be. Anything less than that and we might as well stick out our hands and wait for our government cheese...

The biggest lie in American history is the two party system. Bush and Obama are laughing their treasonous asses off right now. Tyranny doesn't recognize red or blue. The loss of liberty, justice and freedom doesn't lie with a political party. It lies solely with government...... Government that has the same agenda regardless of political affiliation.

More power for those in government and less power for the citizens. Government is a product of it's citizens, not vice versa. This is what and who America is and if we let OUR GOVERNMENT, the one that represents the PEOPLE oppress those SAME PEOPLE. What exactly are we and what have we become?

originally posted by: msallo
a reply to: Helious

im out..revel in your internet big wheel

Because that makes any sense anyway? Right? Asking for intellectual thought in my opinion isn't too much to ask without drifting right off the edge of the thread content. There is plenty of text and ideas to reply too without going far right field......

a reply to: Helious

Best thread all day, by far!!

My father fought in the Korean War (Army) and he was proud of his country and honored to enlist. He lost both legs to frostbite in that war and suffered horribly from his time served, but he never said anything contrary to the ideology of America being the greatest nation an earth. He was filled with patriotism even when he took his final breath.

If my father were alive today to see the worldwide damage our "leaders" have caused and all we have suffered in the last 15 years he would be heavy hearted and ashamed. Of this America.

This is not who we are and what we symbolize. We are not Obama's lies and unconstitutional actions. He has hijacked our America, with the help and encouragement of others who, for whatever reason, are blinded in ineptitude. But it doesn't fall solely on Obama; it is the Americans who follow him blindly without question. The LEOs who no longer protect and serve their fellow man; They now feed on the power of being superior and militarized. Shoot first and cover your ass if you were wrong to do so. (I stress the point that not all LEOs are of the "New breed" mentality.)

I, like many others, watched the horrors of Katrina unfold. Dead bodies left on sidewalks to rot under the sun; people literally dying of thirst while surrounded in water as far as the eye could see. The very worst in people came out during Katrina and in its wake. It also brought out heroes and the compassionate. Never in my imagination, could I forsee the moral collapse of America....but collapse we have. We are now arrogant, entitled, lawless, corrupt, and bereft of life, liberty, and left with the pursuit of happiness being only able to afford both gas in your car AND a weeks worth of groceries.

Who are we??? How have we become so politicaly divided? Morally bankrupt?

How do we find our way back to our America: sweet land of liberty??

a reply to: Helious

The two party system itself is a tyrant. It wont let third fourth fifth parties even play the same game on the same field. I think at one time there was a difference between the two, but each still represented a threat of its own. Now I think it is painfully obvious that they are two fangs on the same snake. In my heart I know I am a patriot. I always have been and I always will be. But if I were to be brutally honest, I think it has gone too far off course to be saved. What was once an ideal has become a bastardized nightmare of selfish power-mongers and corporate shills. I cant think of one device that might be used to divide the American people that is not in use today at this very moment. And every time someone gets close to the truth, here comes another kardashian nightmare to distract the feeble minded and drag down masses. It really makes me sick that I cant do more about it.

I make people laugh because I want the Tea Party to merge with the Occupy Wallstreet movement. When people are a grassroot organization that has some very specific but middle of the road ideas; I like it the best. Laws should be written to protect us from ourselves and others. There should be some limit on wealth generation but not for small businesses. It is the get rich on having one bright idea or ability that I dislike. So you can act or hit a baseball, why should you make millions upon millions. Why should a CEO make millions upon millions? If the job is that hard, split it up and have more people working on the decision. Makes more sense that two heads are better than just one.

Also, shareholders should be the last to be paid and stock reports should be based on the projected budget and revenue not P/E and other silly statistics. To me it makes little sense that companies loan interest rates are based on their stock price. The stock price represents how glamorous a company looks more than how profitable the company actually is.