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What does it mean to cease to exist?

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posted on Mar, 22 2015 @ 05:48 PM
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originally posted by: TheUsersName
a reply to: grandmakdw

You talk about faith and hope as if they were exclusive to people with spiritual or rather non-scientific beliefs.

Dont you feel you have faith and hope in science? Specifically one theory of science, as many scientists along with historians, archaeologist etc disagree with each other and simply the one which is most popular is regarded as being the most true.

Faith: complete trust or confidence in someone or something.

Do you completely trust science?



I actually have faith that I will continue to exist after death, despite there be no scientific evidence at all in any way shape or form that I will.

If I am wrong, there is nothingness, which is not to be feared.

If I am right then I continue to exist with a great and powerful loving entity who will embrace me as a Father embraces their child and will live in heaven with others who believe that to love other human beings is the most important thing we can do in life.

I'd rather have hope and faith, but if I am wrong the alternative is not so bad.
If I am right, the alternative to not believing is one I choose not to entertain.

You also ask if I have faith or hope in science. The answer is a resounding no. I taught Research Methods at the university level and that left me realizing that science can and does lie to the public regularly, using statistical work arounds to get desired results, and by having a rubber stamp mentality to peer review (you rubber stamp my research and I'll rubber stamp yours).



edit on 6Sun, 22 Mar 2015 18:29:02 -0500pm32203pmk220 by grandmakdw because: addition format




posted on Mar, 22 2015 @ 05:56 PM
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a reply to: grandmakdw

Okay, I see your point of view now.

So if you do believe that you will continue to exist after "death" with no scientific evidence to suggest so, could you elaborate why you still hold this belief? I think it would add to the discussion



posted on Mar, 22 2015 @ 05:59 PM
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Death is a singularity. We can't prove or disprove what happens after death anymore than we can prove what happens before birth or before The Big Bang (if that is the accurate model of the Universe).

Perhaps in the future we will evolve biological mechanisms or scientific techniques to measure things past this current singularity, death.

The speed of sound was a singularity until we exceeded it.

Anyone claiming there is much proof one way or another is being as dogmatic as proponents of a geocentric Universe long after scientific evidence piled up to the contrary.

Post-death state is a matter of faith for both believers and atheists (though I believe that fact understandably frustrates aetheists - understandably because singularities are inherently frustrating).



posted on Mar, 22 2015 @ 05:59 PM
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For those stuck in the "cease to exist" paradigm, I wish they'd explain it to whatever invisible things were in a couple houses I lived in... it's would've been far more peaceful if those upset invisible things knew they were impossible.

As our understanding of this universe and our "existence" in it progresses, it just gets more strange and detached from both of the old dominant paradigms (i.e. dogmatic Abrahamic religions and materialism).

Personally, I've brushed realms that were "above" this one and they seemed far more "real" than this ... whatever "this" is. The fact that anything at all exists is "impossible," but once that is addressed, one's mental construct can easily adjust itself to the notion that non-existence might be impossible.

In my view, nothing is weirder and harder to fathom than the thing reading (or skimming, or ignoring) this jumble of words...



posted on Mar, 22 2015 @ 06:01 PM
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a reply to: grandmakdw

This is the problem. You said:

I actually have faith that I will continue to exist after death, despite there be no scientific evidence at all in any way shape or form that I will.

There's nothing wrong with you having faith that you continue to exist after death. The problem is, you then there's no evidence in any way shape or form that supports the notion that we don't cease to exist after death and just is just a lie.

There's plenty of evidence and research into these areas.

At the end of the day though, that's not even my point. My point is, we have no idea what death is or if death has any meaning beyond our perception of a 3 dimensional now. It makes no sense to say we cease to exist at death when our perceptions of reality is limited to what we think of as now evolving in 3 dimensions.

If a person dies tonight at 8 P.M., what does that mean? All we can say is from the point of view of our 3 dimensional perception of reality that person died at that "NOW." We can't say that person objectively ceases to exist. There's not a shred of evidence to support this notion.



posted on Mar, 22 2015 @ 06:05 PM
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originally posted by: TheUsersName
a reply to: grandmakdw

Okay, I see your point of view now.

So if you do believe that you will continue to exist after "death" with no scientific evidence to suggest so, could you elaborate why you still hold this belief? I think it would add to the discussion



“I would rather live my life as if there is a god and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and die to find out there is.”

― Albert Camus

I also strongly believe that there is no higher calling on earth than to love others as you love yourself.

I also strongly believe that forgiveness heals the soul, while revenge and calling for hatred corrupts the soul.

I also strongly believe that to live one's life with mercy, love and kindness is the highest calling of all human beings.

All of these beliefs match up with Christianity (although many who hate Christianity will say I am wrong), this is what I feel the Bible really teaches; and how I choose to live my life.

If I am wrong the alternative is that I lived a life that could be called fair and loving and I have taught my children and all that I encounter that to love and be kind is the best way to live. Then slip into nothingness, which is quite simply nothing.


edit on 6Sun, 22 Mar 2015 18:12:31 -0500pm32203pmk220 by grandmakdw because: addition format



posted on Mar, 22 2015 @ 06:07 PM
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a reply to: grandmakdw

Perhaps YOU just haven't seen the evidence. Other people may have. Just saying...



posted on Mar, 22 2015 @ 06:09 PM
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a reply to: neoholographic

Death of the body occurs. Death of the soul??? There's the mystery...



posted on Mar, 22 2015 @ 06:12 PM
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a reply to: neoholographic
It is necessary to first understand that fundamentally you are awareness or consciousness. When you recognize this to be true, you will also notice that self-aware consciousness does not age. Compare how you feel now in terms of awareness with how you were at 10 years of age. There is no difference in terms of one's fundamental awareness.

Awareness never changes, it is unconditional and is not impacted by anything conditional. It does not die. This is all self-evident - but must be discovered for oneself.

No science is going to prove this because awareness cannot be measured as it is beyond cause-and-effect conditions.

Once you do find you are fundamentally self-aware consciousness, prior to all conditions but paradoxically not separate from anything, your question will not have any real relevance for you.



edit on 3/22/2015 by bb23108 because:



posted on Mar, 22 2015 @ 06:14 PM
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originally posted by: Baddogma
For those stuck in the "cease to exist" paradigm, I wish they'd explain it to whatever invisible things were in a couple houses I lived in... it's would've been far more peaceful if those upset invisible things knew they were impossible.

As our understanding of this universe and our "existence" in it progresses, it just gets more strange and detached from both of the old dominant paradigms (i.e. dogmatic Abrahamic religions and materialism).

Personally, I've brushed realms that were "above" this one and they seemed far more "real" than this ... whatever "this" is. The fact that anything at all exists is "impossible," but once that is addressed, one's mental construct can easily adjust itself to the notion that non-existence might be impossible.

In my view, nothing is weirder and harder to fathom than the thing reading (or skimming, or ignoring) this jumble of words...



What makes you think that these invisible things were of the dead?



posted on Mar, 22 2015 @ 06:19 PM
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a reply to: DAZ21

For those in the "ghost" paradigm.

What you are saying is that you believe when you die one's energy becomes an incorporeal entity unable to communicate with others, except through exceptional and often quite frightening ways.

This would be the greatest tragedy of all in life if it were true, we end only to live isolated and unable to communicate with others for eternity.

Addition made after DAZ21 reply below: (to clarify)
Existence beyond this mortal realm is simply a matter of faith, rather you believe in ghosts, or absorption with a higher consciousness, or a floating incorporeal existence, or reincarnation. All are matters of faith, just as I believe in Christianity, and it is the faith whereby I pin my hopes for an afterlife existence.




edit on 6Sun, 22 Mar 2015 18:25:38 -0500pm32203pmk220 by grandmakdw because: addition



posted on Mar, 22 2015 @ 06:21 PM
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a reply to: grandmakdw

A very scary notion indeed.

Hell on Earth, springs to mind.



posted on Mar, 22 2015 @ 06:22 PM
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a reply to: neoholographic

And another train of thought:


www.alightinsideyou.com...

namaste



posted on Mar, 22 2015 @ 06:23 PM
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originally posted by: neoholographic
Some people say when you die that you cease to exist. What exactly does that mean and how is this known?

A few years back I was in pretty bad motorcycle accident, and I woke up in a hospital about four hours later with people trying to put me back together. I had been anesthetized for a couple of surgeries, and as a result of the trauma, and the anesthesia, I have no recollection of the accident or the surgeries. Four hours gone.

During that time, my brain was unable to hold on to any sensations or images. The time that passed from just before the impact to when I woke up in the hospital was seamless. There was nothing. No time, no memories, no dreams. I consider that to have been a pretty fair approximation of death, the difference being I woke up. Had I died, I imagine that state of complete nothingness to have extended forever.

And what would that mean in the grand scheme of things? It means that the universe and everything in it would have ceased to exist, as least as far as I was concerned. And that's really the only thing that matters. Hypothetically, the universe of other people would have continued, and my friends and family would have mourned me and history would have continued into the future. The universe is holographic, however. Everybody contributes to making it a reality by living in it and observing it and perceiving it. But if your life stops, and you stop perceiving it, then it shatters the holograph. The universe can't exist without your part functioning, it falls apart. Maybe it continues, but not as far as you're concerned, and again, that's the only thing that matters.

So what is death and non-existence? The end of everything, forever. Timeless, imperceptible blackness beyond black. So enjoy life while you can. The people who say there's an afterlife are wishful thinkers. The cold reality of the situation is that nothingness is real (and unreal). And many people like myself who have experienced relatively long periods of unconsciousness will tell you the same.



posted on Mar, 22 2015 @ 06:27 PM
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a reply to: neoholographic

I always thought of it like this...

Close both your eyes and you see "nothing". Except you don't - you see what it's like with your eyes closed -- your eye lids down. So, you can still "see", right?

Ok, close just *one* eye and put your hand/palm over that closed eye so it's completely closed while the other is open. For me, it's weird - now the closed one i see "nothing" in the trie sense. I can't see that "closed" eyer lid view; I assume there's some neurological/biological reason why this happens and I reckon it's to do with the open eye processing information vs the closed one seeing nothing.

Bit weird, i know, but i remember doing that in grade school 30+ years ago when the teacher mentioned something about nothingness and it always stuck with me. (shrug)



posted on Mar, 22 2015 @ 06:30 PM
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a reply to: DAZ21



What makes you think that these invisible things were of the dead?


Nothing at all... though at least one seemed to think it was a former human from the imperfect communication.

My take away was some form of intelligence seems possible without a material matrix... and material itself isn't very material, anyway.

But good point.



posted on Mar, 22 2015 @ 06:30 PM
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a reply to: Blue Shift
As much as I don't like it, I agree with your views.



posted on Mar, 22 2015 @ 06:32 PM
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a reply to: Blue Shift

Not to disrepute your situation as it sounds pretty tragic - but wouldn't that be a situation where your brain, and effectively *you* were still alive but the biological part of you was stuck in a coma state? Therefore, the state of your brain at that period in time was essentially preventing your conscious self from being "aware" ?

For the record, I'm not saying I believe in heaven & hell or the afterlife, I'm just open to ideas. I really *want* to believe there's more than to it than *this* physical life, but the logical scientist in me knows better.


edit on 22-3-2015 by noonebutme because: (no reason given)

edit on 22-3-2015 by noonebutme because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 22 2015 @ 06:36 PM
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originally posted by: Gully
a reply to: Blue Shift
As much as I don't like it, I agree with your views.

Gotta enjoy life while you're still alive, because that's all we know we have for sure. It may ultimately be a pointless illusion, but there are still pleasures to be had. My personal philosophy tends to lead to hedonism, although not necessarily to selfish, self-destructive hedonism.



posted on Mar, 22 2015 @ 06:41 PM
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originally posted by: grandmakdw
originally posted by: neoholographic
a reply to: grandmakdw
You have never heard of the 'Virginia Institute of Applied Sciences'.
edit on 22-3-2015 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)




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