Who wants to argue creation?

a reply to: IpoopThere4IAM

It's true? That's not very thought-provoking, nor even a correct statement.

The only thing that can be proven, is ones existence, but only to itself.

"Facts" change ALL the time in science - Saying SOMETHING is true, can be true, but claiming to know the truth.. Is just ignorant.

Also - I'm very into scientific inquiry, and also very spiritual - So I'm not biased towards one side, but rather towards the two fitting together.

a reply to: IpoopThere4IAM

" The great thing about science is, it's true, whether you believe it or not. "

- Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Remember that time we spent knowing for a fact that light can't bend? Remember how scientifically true that was? Well, turns out it is now scientifically true that our knowledge on the matter was scientifically false. Go figure.

a reply to: JohnFisher

Try to convert that "we made a mistake, oops, but this is the knowledge we have now." to religion. Have fun.

Haven't seen that. And then we get something like the catholic church trying to waddle around contraception, abortion (in justifiable, problematic instances) and even "sun around the earth - mr. galileo, to the revocation table, please - okay, earth around the sun, but we are not happy about it".

Science advances. Religion does not.

a reply to: randyvs

yeah thanks for that. not drunk at all. just typing on a real crappy phone. well done for not replying to anything i said though and just calling me drunk.

your whole argument and logic is flawed. just because something is a coincidence and yoi dont understand it does not mean god did it.
this seems like a continuation of the `fine tuned universe` thread.

so the moon looked like it covered the sun completely from `our` perspective. well that must be god. except it didnt. most of us only saw a partial eclipse. guess god favours the people of the faroe islands this year huh?

a reply to: randyvs

An eclipse proves nothing.. Anyone can take a book written 3500 years ago and twist the words around to suit a particular situation. Especially when the book was written a certain way and it is now been interpreted a million times over. You cannot even fathom the true meaning because the words are so diluted, muddled what have you...

I take no issue with a man and his faith but when you push it onto a forum and try and insist that your beliefs should be my beliefs i view you as just as flawed as the aforementioned book and its trite ramblings...

Religion is nothing more than a way to control the feeble minded masses. That is why there are so many different sects and cults. Just look at your own Christianity the different sects probably number in the thousands...

Science doesn't begin to garner all that is evident in the universe because the minds of the men that practice science cannot yet understand all of what the universe is about they are only theories as of yet.

Religion, hey more power to you... I don't knock kids for believing in the tooth fairy or Santa clause, each to his own... But I have to ask, how ya gonna feel when you die and realize that you have wasted your whole life on a fairy tale...

originally posted by: agentscoly
a reply to: randyvs

But I have to ask, how ya gonna feel when you die and realize that you have wasted your whole life on a fairy tale...

That's the thing, spiritual texts elude, or rather, blatantly state that through mental practice and purification one can elude death:

“Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.” (Galatians 6:8)

“Through the abandonment of desire, the deathless state is realized.”
(Buddhism: Samyatta Nikaya xlvii 37)

"Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you." John(6:26)

We are in a state of becoming, Plato calls this world a "receptacle" to the world of forms (his name for heaven). So, how are you going to feel on your death bed realizing that maybe you missed the point of life? (Sin in Greek means "to miss the mark"). Maybe you are the one missing the point of life? Just as you said to not push religion on people, you should not push your pessimism on people.

a reply to: ManFromEurope

Try to convert that "we made a mistake, oops, but this is the knowledge we have now." to religion. Have fun. . . Science advances. Religion does not.

To which advancement are you referring? One could effectively argue that faith is highly advantageous where science can more easily lead to overall moral transgression. Sure, religiosity can too. But my point about the light, simply put, is one's opinions of the world are restricted by fallible information that will likely change 100 times in 1000 years. Science is great, but without faith it only throws is into a rat race or a wild goose chase.

Just my opinion.

a reply to: agentscoly

I have to ask, how ya gonna feel when you die and realize that you have wasted your whole life on a fairy tale

If one realizes anything after he dies, then I believe he will have eaten his words about it all being a fairy tale.

originally posted by: JohnFisher
a reply to: agentscoly

I have to ask, how ya gonna feel when you die and realize that you have wasted your whole life on a fairy tale

If one realizes anything after he dies, then I believe he will have eaten his words about it all being a fairy tale.

unless such a person is bitten by a vampire because he forgot to hang the garlic above his doors and windows.

y'know, just in case.

a reply to: JohnFisher

When you're standing there in the halls of Valhalla you're going to regret worshipping your false god.

originally posted by: JohnFisher
a reply to: IpoopThere4IAM

" The great thing about science is, it's true, whether you believe it or not. "

- Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Remember that time we spent knowing for a fact that light can't bend? Remember how scientifically true that was? Well, turns out it is now scientifically true that our knowledge on the matter was scientifically false. Go figure.

Science is a work in progress. There is no "the end" to it. Everything can be questioned, revised or thrown out completely. It all depends on the evidence. Einstein's models are still questioned. Several have been revised. Does that make his original work "false"? No. It just means that someone else picked up on his research and improved it. Happens all the time.

"Truth" in science is not the same as truth in a courtroom. When we think we know everything, maybe then you can call it a truth. I've yet to meet the scientist who says we know everything.

a reply to: Phantom423

Einstein's models are still questioned. Several have been revised. Does that make his original work "false"? No.

To some extent, yes. Point being, light can't bend; true or false?

Don't get me wrong, I love science! It just doesn't have any absolutes. I'd be willing to bet that even our understanding of scientific laws will change over time. There must be absolutes, which the notion of a God, or designer, fulfils. Heck, math gives evidence of absolutes and eternity. And I believe science really implies the existence of a designer. Of course, an altogether different thought process led me to Jesus.

originally posted by: JohnFisher
a reply to: Phantom423

Einstein's models are still questioned. Several have been revised. Does that make his original work "false"? No.

To some extent, yes. Point being, light can't bend; true or false?

Don't get me wrong, I love science! It just doesn't have any absolutes. I'd be willing to bet that even our understanding of scientific laws will change over time. There must be absolutes, which the notion of a God, or designer, fulfils. Heck, math gives evidence of absolutes and eternity. And I believe science really implies the existence of a designer. Of course, an altogether different thought process led me to Jesus.

even if a designer were proven, what makes you think it would be any of the gods we are familiar with?

a reply to: GetHyped

When you're standing there in the halls of Valhalla you're going to regret worshipping your false god.

Who, the God of Abraham?
Already do 😊

originally posted by: JohnFisher
a reply to: Phantom423

Einstein's models are still questioned. Several have been revised. Does that make his original work "false"? No.

To some extent, yes. Point being, light can't bend; true or false?

Don't get me wrong, I love science! It just doesn't have any absolutes. I'd be willing to bet that even our understanding of scientific laws will change over time. There must be absolutes, which the notion of a God, or designer, fulfils. Heck, math gives evidence of absolutes and eternity. And I believe science really implies the existence of a designer. Of course, an altogether different thought process led me to Jesus.

Well that's a matter of faith which, of course, you're entitled to. As for science, as a scientist myself, I don't believe in absolutes - not now or ever. The "laws" of physics, in particular thermodynamics, are really gross approximations. We use them for convenience. But are they exact? No. Do they work? Yes - on a day-to-day practical level. Newtonian physics has been superceded by quantum and relativistic physics, although Newtonian physics is still very useful. And on it goes as new knowledge is acquired. An absolute means that some "law" would be the end of the story, book closed. It's never happened in the natural world yet. This universe at least is probabilistic - there's a distribution of solutions to any one problem.

Science just keeps chugging along, replacing the old with the new, providing new knowledge and a better undertanding of nature.

a reply to: TzarChasm

even if a designer were proven, what makes you think it would be any of the gods we are familiar with?

I believe that a God, or designer, is a personal God because compassion is a strong symptom of intelligence. A designer God would naturally be most intelligent, and it would reveal a lack of compassion to neglect one's creation. That's over-simplified, but anyway... If a personal God, then He would certainly provide the means for His creation to know Him. Therefor, in my mind, one "religion" is most correct. Only one makes the most sense to me, so I follow it. And unlike some who share my faith, I don't believe that everyone who doesn't believe in Him are automatically hell-bound. He is a case-by-case judge who has mercy on those who either cannot know Him (mental capacity) or who are completely ignorant of His word. At least, that is my current understanding of scripture.

Either way, I believe He is self-evident, and I believe that science really backs the notion.

a reply to: Phantom423

Well that's a matter of faith which, of course, you're entitled to. As for science, as a scientist myself, I don't believe in absolutes - not now or ever.

Is existence not absolute? If I fall into an active volcano, will I not die? Maybe our perception of absolutes aren't the same?

**edit** Does 1+1 ever equal anything other than 2?

a reply to: JohnFisher

I believe that a God, or designer, is a personal God because compassion is a strong symptom of intelligence.

unless an advanced intelligence were offended by anything inferior to it.

A designer God would naturally be most intelligent, and it would reveal a lack of compassion to neglect one's creation.

a forgotten masterpiece. or perhaps a rough draft? we could have been homework, graded and discarded. i saw a thread earlier about non-linear entities experiencing time differently. imagine how that might affect its psychology...hypothetically speaking. its strange to think that someone who knows nothing about such an intelligence would presume it to know compassion or even to register us at any greater a level than a bit of bacteria. should it be illegal to step on ants?

a reply to: TzarChasm
I'm using a phone and an busy, so no quotes.
Yeah, I've heard that argument before, but I think we're getting into a discussion that neither you nor me have the mental capacity to have. And I currently don't have much to refute what you said other than simply disagreeing with the notion. I'll try to think of some things throughout the day, so we can further or discussion.

originally posted by: JohnFisher
a reply to: Phantom423

Well that's a matter of faith which, of course, you're entitled to. As for science, as a scientist myself, I don't believe in absolutes - not now or ever.

Is existence not absolute? If I fall into an active volcano, will I not die? Maybe our perception of absolutes aren't the same?

**edit** Does 1+1 ever equal anything other than 2?

Actually 1+1 doesn't' always equal 2. www.youtube.com...
and mathworld.wolfram.com...

Is existence absolute? Well, can you prove that you even exist? A true absolute is a universal absolute mathematically.

Actually, I'll give you a hint to the first quesetion: in a numbering system, you always move on to the next number. The symbols 1-9 (no zeros) is a system in the strict sense. The system is a convenience. And 1+1 do not have to equal 2 in another system.