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Who wants to argue creation?

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posted on Jun, 22 2015 @ 05:30 PM
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originally posted by: spy66

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: spy66


God is not a being. God cant be.



be
bē/Submit
verb
1.
exist.


so what you said here is, "god cant exist". you just shot your whole argument in the head, point blank, between the eyes.


How can we argue something we dont know and have never experianced?


hmm, i dont know, how do YOU?



You got to lean how to read. I never said God didnt exist.


not only do i know how to read, i also know how to look up definitions and post them here for reference. which i did, and you apparently ignored. bless your little heart. the post is still on the previous page, just a little way up from the bottom, if you want to have another look.
edit on 22-6-2015 by TzarChasm because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 22 2015 @ 05:34 PM
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originally posted by: spy66

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: spy66

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: spy66

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: spy66
a reply to: Agartha

Well we were condemed by God in the garden of Eden to experiance the difference between good and evil.



condemned by his lack of foresight, refusal to hold himself accountable, and constant lackadaisical approach to everything except his own ego. The only thing he takes seriously is himself. Pretty cliche for a literary baddie. Like a cross between Lockhart and voldemort.


Are you saying: By the lack of his foresight.......So you are judging God now by Your better understanding.

Do yo know the moral code or something.....? You must since you can judge God and his foresight.

No Where in the bible does God say that this life on earth will be easy or fair.


Why do we blame God for all the evil we do?



No, but I do understand the definitions of both omniscience and omnipotence and how they play together. These apparently justify and augment his authority but don't actually do anything practical. I will happily hold him accountable for not employing these attributes to their full potential (since its effortless for him) and for pinning his own personal failures on a species that merely fell into his trap. We did exactly what he expected us to. That's not our fault.


I would like to see you hold God accountable for his actions. How would you argue Your case against God?


im sure you can find more than enough threads relevant to that question without my wasting the time and energy to type a hypothetical lawsuit.


I see. So basically God would have to answer to the Whole of humanity why he is so crule.


well, if we want to be fair, then yes.



posted on Jun, 22 2015 @ 06:19 PM
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a reply to: spy66





Who said i was religious? I never did.


Well one would assume you' are. Seeing you're defending God after-all.




I would not exspect other christians to believe me or support me.


Now you've got me confused again. When you say 'other' Christians you're including yourself as a Christian which means you're religious.




Yes they are, but they are not Your Choices. I know that it is a hard one to grasp because you have never made the thought.


I laughed when I read this. Funny, a person who's never thought about it comes here and debates about the thing they've never given any thought to. I don't do that, but maybe you do. Choices have A LOT to do with the biochemical process in the brain. High/low neurotransmitters like serotonin can heavily play a role in one's life. Especially all the learning and exposure one has in early life paves roads for the future to come. We know this. This has been proven with science. This has been proven with human studies and behavioral science.




How do you know that Your Choices are really Yours? Would it be because you make them? I bet you have to argue With Your mind some times when it comes to making Choices right?

Who are you arguing With ?



You're arguing with me/myself and I. Sure is a Sh#t disturber eh? When you have to make all those adult choices we don't want to? Eh? You're arguing with all the years of neural foraging in your mind as you make your way through life. Sorry, not as glamorous as you hoped. I guess you were going to imply the Devil is riding shotgun and we're all driving the car.



posted on Jun, 22 2015 @ 06:35 PM
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a reply to: Barcs


Absolutely nowhere, like most conversations with religious fundamentalists.

If you were familiar with my content here, you would know I'm not one of those.

But you presume and categorize everything not in your line of thinking with "religious fundamentalism".

You don't even have the logic to know that their is no end to the Universe and… since its always been there, so has life, and so has the spread of life.

Thats more to the point I was making, the 'leading back to God' part is your insulting viewpoint. I never said that. I simply think the seed, the embryos, the chickens , life itself was brought here from somewhere else.

You can call that religious or you can admit to the science of DNA and wombs and cell division, but don't lump me with the fundamentalist of either religionism or evolutionism.

Both you all got it wrong, imo.

(lol)



posted on Jun, 23 2015 @ 12:53 AM
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a reply to: FlySolo

Yes i am defending God. Science in many ways do to. But not many seam to grasp that either.

People dont seam to grasp what a universe is.

People argue that Our universe is infinite without bounderies, and at the same time argue that it had a beginning. Its like People dont know what they are talking about when they argue.

Our universe cant be both. It either is infinite or it is a finite.

People think that Black holes formed Our universe. But can not argue how. When science state that matter was formed after the Big Bang. You cant have a black hole without matter present.

Science state that energy cant be created. But state that Our universe had a beginning some 17,79 billion years ago. Particles and matter are the only energy Sources we know of. They were formed according to science.



posted on Jun, 23 2015 @ 01:30 AM
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a reply to: FlySolo

You can believe in a God without religion.....it is the way it should be.



posted on Jun, 23 2015 @ 02:24 AM
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originally posted by: spy66
a reply to: FlySolo
People dont seam to grasp what a universe is.






posted on Jun, 23 2015 @ 09:49 AM
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a reply to: boymonkey74

then that would make you agnostic wouldn't it?



posted on Jun, 23 2015 @ 10:20 AM
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a reply to: FlySolo

no - belief in a god without the tennants of a religion is IMHO - deism



posted on Jun, 23 2015 @ 10:38 AM
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a reply to: ignorant_ape


Deism is a natural religion. Deists believe in the existence of God, on purely rational grounds, without any reliance on revealed religion, religious authority, or holy text. Because of this, Deism is quite different from religions like Judaism, Christianity and Islam.


Ok, makes sense. But then no bible talk



posted on Jun, 23 2015 @ 11:25 AM
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originally posted by: ignorant_ape
a reply to: FlySolo

no - belief in a god without the tennants of a religion is IMHO - deism


Deism is the philosophy that something created the universe or the earth...and then walked away and never returned. Might as well be atheist at that point lol.



posted on Jun, 23 2015 @ 12:23 PM
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a reply to: TzarChasm

Then Deism is probably exactly what I believe. "God" just got the ball rolling and never looked back. What god is on the other hand is another can of worms. Fractals is your answer, or my answer imho. And endless loop of highly structured geometry encompassing the entire universe from the largest object to the smallest in both directions. The Mandelbrot set.



posted on Jun, 23 2015 @ 12:51 PM
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originally posted by: spy66
God is not a being. God cant be.

You know this how?


And what do we know about being Perfect? How can we argue something we dont know and have never experianced?


Yes, that was exactly what I was saying. Just like you said above with perfection, folks don't know ANYTHING about god either, they rely on 3rd party information and take it as truth, or incorporate their own spin on it with no evidence. I do not believe in the concept of perfection, except with mathematics, although mistakes can be made. I was referring to claims people have made about god.


Yes i am defending God. Science in many ways do to. But not many seam to grasp that either.


Science defends god? Where? You do realize you need objective evidence to consider a viewpoint scientific, so lets see your evidence.


People dont seam to grasp what a universe is.


And you totally do, right?


People argue that Our universe is infinite without bounderies, and at the same time argue that it had a beginning. Its like People dont know what they are talking about when they argue.


People arguing is not science. I do not believe the universe is infinite, and most science savvy folks do not either. Science does not take the position that A. the universe is infinite or B. the universe had a beginning. All we know is that all known matter and energy was condensed together and then expanded.


People think that Black holes formed Our universe. But can not argue how. When science state that matter was formed after the Big Bang. You cant have a black hole without matter present.


Wrong. Science does not state that matter was formed after the BB. Nor does it say black holes formed our universe. You are just taking 2 guesses and pitting them against each other. Nothing you are saying is actually proven true. People think god formed our universe. People are generally wrong about things they haven't studied. Just saying.


Science state that energy cant be created. But state that Our universe had a beginning some 17,79 billion years ago. Particles and matter are the only energy Sources we know of. They were formed according to science.


Can you or anybody else prove that the big bang was the absolute beginning? I'll say it again, that is not a scientific standpoint. When scientists refer to "the beginning" they are referring to what we know as the beginning. There could very well be other events prior to the big bang, or the big bang could be but one of millions. We don't know the answer.

edit on 23-6-2015 by Barcs because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 23 2015 @ 01:05 PM
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originally posted by: intrptr
If you were familiar with my content here, you would know I'm not one of those.

But you presume and categorize everything not in your line of thinking with "religious fundamentalism".


Please note that I said, "like most conversations with fundamentalists". Yes, they have used that same exact argument as you. I didn't say you were a fundamentalist, but you are using similar arguments. A fundamentalist is somebody that interprets their holy book as absolute literal word of god. I deal with those folks quite often in this section. Anybody can ask 'where did X come from' and keep going back further and further until we don't know the answer. It doesn't mean god did it and you would still need to explain the origin of god.


You don't even have the logic to know that their is no end to the Universe and… since its always been there, so has life, and so has the spread of life.


Exactly. That was my point. It applies to god as well. You don't have the logic to know that god always existed.


Thats more to the point I was making, the 'leading back to God' part is your insulting viewpoint. I never said that. I simply think the seed, the embryos, the chickens , life itself was brought here from somewhere else.


You are welcome to believe that, but your logic is extremely faulty if the best you can come up with, is "where did the seeds come from" and then when given the answer you say, "well then where did THAT come from". There is no point in using faulty logic like that. Even if life came from somewhere else, where did that somewhere else come from? How did it get THERE? See what I mean? It gets us no closer to an answer. I didn't think you'd take it as insult when talking about how you can keep going back further and further and get all the way to god or the unknown.



posted on Jun, 23 2015 @ 02:51 PM
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a reply to: Barcs


Exactly. That was my point.

So we agree then. Leave organized religions interpretation of Life, the Universe and Everything out if it for me, next time.



posted on Jun, 23 2015 @ 03:10 PM
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Please look here Names of god(s)

Quite literally 1000's of them, you need no more proof to show that god is a creation of MAN



posted on Jun, 23 2015 @ 06:18 PM
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originally posted by: FlySolo
a reply to: ignorant_ape


Deism is a natural religion. Deists believe in the existence of God, on purely rational grounds, without any reliance on revealed religion, religious authority, or holy text. Because of this, Deism is quite different from religions like Judaism, Christianity and Islam.


Ok, makes sense. But then no bible talk


still doesnt make sense because its still a god of the gaps argument, it just doesnt go the extra mile and claim "something" is still around actively participating in the world it created. it takes a shortcut and says "well, theres no proof TODAY because its not around anymore. but it WAS because how else do you explain..."

in my humble opinion, deism is a lazy attempt to reconcile science with religion. but that could change.



posted on Jun, 23 2015 @ 07:00 PM
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a reply to: TzarChasm

That could change alright. I'm talking about something far more mind blowing than just some grey bearded jealous omnipotent being in the sky. If I were to derail this thread I would bring up the quantum monsters and hologram theories.



posted on Jun, 24 2015 @ 01:24 AM
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Strange that NONE of the god believers want to comment on the fact that MAN created 1000's of gods all around this planet.

It's also telling that these god(s) are confined to very tight localised areas of the globe.

We ALL KNOW how god(s) came about, it was to try and explain things that MAN saw that were a puzzle and could not be explained hence thunder gods, rain gods etc etc.

For example good old Thor the Norse god of thunder causing thunder and lightning with his hammer or the fact that in China when a solar eclipse happened it was thought to be a dragon in the sky eating the sun.

Now those two above in the past had every much right to be believed as any other god story but we know that's not what causes thunder or an eclipse.

Every race/people had god(s) with creation stories and ALL yes ALL of them have as much right as any other to be believed , ALL those god(s) and stories can't all be right but they can ALL BE WRONG !

So lets see some counter arguments to that.
edit on 24-6-2015 by wmd_2008 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 24 2015 @ 02:32 AM
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a reply to: wmd_2008

Strange? How about stunned? That it's always people like you,
that love to ridicule what others believe about this existence, as
if you know anything. Here's a clue, it's band wagon jumpers like you,
that always get thier fannys spanked worse than anyone in threads like this.
And all I have to do is ask you to explain it for me instead. I mean I beleived
the Bible so easily, I'm bound to beleive the better puny explanation you
must have for existence.




So lets see some counter arguments to that.



Not even a problem. First, you level the playing field and give
up the puny advantage you conveniently ignore in the arguement.
Only a narcisstic horses ass, would try to tell people what they
believe, is stupid and beyond ignorant. With out first revealing
why what they beleive, makes so much more sense.

So go ahead, convert me? Or are you a H.A.?


edit on Ram62415v34201500000001 by randyvs because: (no reason given)



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