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Who wants to argue creation?

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posted on Jun, 22 2015 @ 01:21 PM
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originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: randyvs

So are you going to answer her question?.


The truth is, he never answers people's questions. He responds with intentionally vague statements that often have absolutely nothing to do with the question or statement he is responding to, while others break down their points in details and back them up. We all know the game he is playing, he just won't admit it.

edit on 22-6-2015 by Barcs because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 22 2015 @ 01:24 PM
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originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: randyvs


Let the closed minded scoffing begin.

About creation? Or eclipses?

My own take on creation…

Walk into any garden on this planet and ask where did all these plants come from? They just come up out of the ground and grow.

Somebody planted them. Yah, but where did the seeds come from? Somewhere else. From another garden. But where did that garden come from?

See where this is leading?


Absolutely nowhere, like most conversations with religious fundamentalists.

This is a really bad example because you don't need a planter to have plants grow. Plants naturally spread their seed, so when people see a tree or some shrubs they don't have to invent a creator to understand how they grow and reproduce. It happens on its own without intelligent intervention. You can go all the way back to god, but it is still infinite regression, because you'd have to ask where god came from. The popular religious response is to claim he always existed which is a cop out and defies all logic and known science about our universe. He had to originate somehow. If not, it is equally valid to say the universe always existed.
edit on 22-6-2015 by Barcs because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 22 2015 @ 02:14 PM
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originally posted by: Agartha

originally posted by: spy66

For some this would seam very unrealistic. The Book of life would probably also seam very unfair to some. This book is also written in Advance by God. Only the once who have their names written in the book of life will be reborne. The others will never exist again after Death.


Then your God is a cruel sadistic being who likes to toy with humans in the most despicable way. He creates people to make them suffer and then even deny them an afterlife.... how do you guys still worship him I don't know...



He is not just my God, he is Yours to.....even if you reject him, or dont believe he exists.

God does not toy With human lives. Humans toy With human lives. We have to live With the burdon of being able to think and make Choices. Today we hardly have any Choices left to make. Our Choices are mostly set by strict set of man made Law. The only freedom we have today is.... being allowed to have Our own thoughts. And that is not Gods fault.

The only reason you say that God is cruel is because God leaves us all alone through good and bad. How many times do you thank God every time you feel good? Probably non...but when Things dont go so good for you or others you Wonder where God is.

What would it be like if there was no evil....Would you know what love is....or what good morals are?



posted on Jun, 22 2015 @ 02:22 PM
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originally posted by: FlySolo

originally posted by: spy66
a reply to: Agartha

To answer this; i must say that God knows what Our children will grow up to become. We are all borne sinners.

The future is already set. It was set at the time God formed the firmament. And time can not be stopped, and everything will unfold as expected. We are the only once who dont know the out come. And we are left to argue it.

This is all ment to be. But no body knows why. Our time on Earth is very short when it comes to age. If the Words in the Bible are true. This life is not what God has in store for the elect.




*yawn

Really? This is the most used and abused cop out Christians have. Everything is planned, our destinies are fate and already decided. What a load of bull#. So, with that logic, I've decided that I will no longer go to work, clean my place, reject everyone out of my life and just sit here twiddling my thumbs until I croak. What garbage. When ever I hear these excuses I begin to to see red. So who's the elect? The righteous few I presume? While the rest of us have been already scheduled to burn in hell?


You might not like it, or believe it. But what ever you do is already decided for Your person. The only one who dont know what exactly you will do tomarro is you. If you dont agree With that you are lacking some serious input between Your ears. Time is steady and Your in it. Tomarrow will come if you like it or not.
edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 22 2015 @ 02:28 PM
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originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: spy66

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: spy66
a reply to: Agartha

Well we were condemed by God in the garden of Eden to experiance the difference between good and evil.



condemned by his lack of foresight, refusal to hold himself accountable, and constant lackadaisical approach to everything except his own ego. The only thing he takes seriously is himself. Pretty cliche for a literary baddie. Like a cross between Lockhart and voldemort.


Are you saying: By the lack of his foresight.......So you are judging God now by Your better understanding.

Do yo know the moral code or something.....? You must since you can judge God and his foresight.

No Where in the bible does God say that this life on earth will be easy or fair.


Why do we blame God for all the evil we do?



No, but I do understand the definitions of both omniscience and omnipotence and how they play together. These apparently justify and augment his authority but don't actually do anything practical. I will happily hold him accountable for not employing these attributes to their full potential (since its effortless for him) and for pinning his own personal failures on a species that merely fell into his trap. We did exactly what he expected us to. That's not our fault.


I would like to see you hold God accountable for his actions. How would you argue Your case against God?
edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 22 2015 @ 02:40 PM
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originally posted by: spy66

He is not just my God, he is Yours to.....even if you reject him, or dont believe he exists.

God does not toy With human lives. Humans toy With human lives. We have to live With the burdon of being able to think and make Choices. Today we hardly have any Choices left to make. Our Choices are mostly set by strict set of man made Law. The only freedom we have today is.... being allowed to have Our own thoughts. And that is not Gods fault.

The only reason you say that God is cruel is because God leaves us all alone through good and bad. How many times do you thank God every time you feel good? Probably non...but when Things dont go so good for you or others you Wonder where God is.

What would it be like if there was no evil....Would you know what love is....or what good morals are?




You are contradicting yourself. First you said that it is all pre-written by God:


originally posted by: spy66
This book is also written in Advance by God. Only the once who have their names written in the book of life will be reborne. The others will never exist again after Death.


Now you say it's us humans and God simply leave us alone.

So which is it then?
You agreed there is no free will as we don't choose to be born or where and how, it's all God's plan. Now you talk about free will again. I can't be both.


Yet more contradictions, just like with the foreskin and many other examples I could give you.



posted on Jun, 22 2015 @ 03:12 PM
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a reply to: Agartha

Bingo. God's omniscience and free will are mutually exclusive, despite illogical attempts to rationalize it. If god truly knows everything that has/is/will happen, then it is all set in stone and "free will" is just an illusion. Even if you think you are making your own decisions, you are not because they are all predetermined.



posted on Jun, 22 2015 @ 03:23 PM
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Sorry double post.

edit on 22-6-2015 by Barcs because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 22 2015 @ 03:24 PM
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originally posted by: spy66
I would like to see you hold God accountable for his actions. How would you argue Your case against God?


It is a reasonable doubt that goes against the idea of god's existence, nobody is trying to hold god accountable for his actions. They are saying the actions are illogical and contradictory for a "perfect" being, so it is likely that this being does not exist. You may be convinced that he does exist, but most of us in this thread are not.

A case against god is simple. There is no objective evidence for god, which means there is no need to go any further. You can't argue against something that doesn't exist.


edit on 22-6-2015 by Barcs because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 22 2015 @ 03:29 PM
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originally posted by: Barcs
a reply to: Agartha

Bingo. God's omniscience and free will are mutually exclusive, despite illogical attempts to rationalize it. If god truly knows everything that has/is/will happen, then it is all set in stone and "free will" is just an illusion. Even if you think you are making your own decisions, you are not because they are all predetermined.


Yes!! one makes the other impossible, it cannot be both! I don't understand how religious people can't see that, it's crystal clear.

But let see what Randy and Spy reply.....



posted on Jun, 22 2015 @ 03:31 PM
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a reply to: spy66




You might not like it, or believe it. But what ever you do is already decided for Your person. The only one who dont know what exactly you will do tomarro is you. If you dont agree With that you are lacking some serious input between Your ears. Time is steady and Your in it. Tomarrow will come if you like it or not.


You know, I edited my post where I got a little pissy because I felt silly. Now, you come back with a response saying I"m lacking "input" between my ears. I can see English isn't your first language but what you're trying to tell me is, I'm stupid because I don't agree with you.

This is where the gloves come off lady. You basically insulted me. Not that I care because you've just proven you're a hypocrite and a fake. A typical holier than thou pretentious Christian which no one can stand. So lets "debate" and see who's really lacking between the ears shall we? First, Tomorrow has nothing to do with anything and yes I know tomorrow will come, what's your point? Second, if tomorrow is already decided for me, then there's no such thing as free will. BAM! You lose.



posted on Jun, 22 2015 @ 03:36 PM
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a reply to: Agartha

Exactly. "They" can never get their stories straight. It's only free will when it serves their argument.



posted on Jun, 22 2015 @ 04:05 PM
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originally posted by: FlySolo
a reply to: spy66




You might not like it, or believe it. But what ever you do is already decided for Your person. The only one who dont know what exactly you will do tomarro is you. If you dont agree With that you are lacking some serious input between Your ears. Time is steady and Your in it. Tomarrow will come if you like it or not.


You know, I edited my post where I got a little pissy because I felt silly. Now, you come back with a response saying I"m lacking "input" between my ears. I can see English isn't your first language but what you're trying to tell me is, I'm stupid because I don't agree with you.

This is where the gloves come off lady. You basically insulted me. Not that I care because you've just proven you're a hypocrite and a fake. A typical holier than thou pretentious Christian which no one can stand. So lets "debate" and see who's really lacking between the ears shall we? First, Tomorrow has nothing to do with anything and yes I know tomorrow will come, what's your point? Second, if tomorrow is already decided for me, then there's no such thing as free will. BAM! You lose.


Right, there is no such thing as free will. Way to Catch up.

If so what do you think you can do? You will actually do exactly what Your hart and mind tels you to do... period. The irony is that you think it is a free Choice.



posted on Jun, 22 2015 @ 04:10 PM
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originally posted by: Barcs

originally posted by: spy66
I would like to see you hold God accountable for his actions. How would you argue Your case against God?


It is a reasonable doubt that goes against the idea of god's existence, nobody is trying to hold god accountable for his actions. They are saying the actions are illogical and contradictory for a "perfect" being, so it is likely that this being does not exist. You may be convinced that he does exist, but most of us in this thread are not.

A case against god is simple. There is no objective evidence for god, which means there is no need to go any further. You can't argue against something that doesn't exist.



God is not a being. God cant be.

And what do we know about being Perfect? How can we argue something we dont know and have never experianced?



posted on Jun, 22 2015 @ 04:14 PM
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a reply to: spy66

Clearly, you don't understand your own religion. The whole point is to make choices and I can bet there aren't many Christians who would agree with your views.



posted on Jun, 22 2015 @ 04:26 PM
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a reply to: spy66


God is not a being. God cant be.



be
bē/Submit
verb
1.
exist.


so what you said here is, "god cant exist". you just shot your whole argument in the head, point blank, between the eyes.


How can we argue something we dont know and have never experianced?


hmm, i dont know, how do YOU?
edit on 22-6-2015 by TzarChasm because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 22 2015 @ 04:34 PM
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originally posted by: spy66

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: spy66

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: spy66
a reply to: Agartha

Well we were condemed by God in the garden of Eden to experiance the difference between good and evil.



condemned by his lack of foresight, refusal to hold himself accountable, and constant lackadaisical approach to everything except his own ego. The only thing he takes seriously is himself. Pretty cliche for a literary baddie. Like a cross between Lockhart and voldemort.


Are you saying: By the lack of his foresight.......So you are judging God now by Your better understanding.

Do yo know the moral code or something.....? You must since you can judge God and his foresight.

No Where in the bible does God say that this life on earth will be easy or fair.


Why do we blame God for all the evil we do?



No, but I do understand the definitions of both omniscience and omnipotence and how they play together. These apparently justify and augment his authority but don't actually do anything practical. I will happily hold him accountable for not employing these attributes to their full potential (since its effortless for him) and for pinning his own personal failures on a species that merely fell into his trap. We did exactly what he expected us to. That's not our fault.


I would like to see you hold God accountable for his actions. How would you argue Your case against God?


im sure you can find more than enough threads relevant to that question without my wasting the time and energy to type a hypothetical lawsuit.



posted on Jun, 22 2015 @ 05:22 PM
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originally posted by: FlySolo
a reply to: spy66

Clearly, you don't understand your own religion. The whole point is to make choices and I can bet there aren't many Christians who would agree with your views.


Who said i was religious? I never did.

I would not exspect other christians to believe me or support me. They are very much like you. But obsorbed by a idea someone preched and thought to them. Or enforced on them from early age.

You say that Our lives are based on Choices. Yes they are, but they are not Your Choices. I know that it is a hard one to grasp because you have never made the thought. How do you know that Your Choices are really Yours? Would it be because you make them? I bet you have to argue With Your mind some times when it comes to making Choices right?

Who are you arguing With ?




edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 22 2015 @ 05:24 PM
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originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: spy66

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: spy66

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: spy66
a reply to: Agartha

Well we were condemed by God in the garden of Eden to experiance the difference between good and evil.



condemned by his lack of foresight, refusal to hold himself accountable, and constant lackadaisical approach to everything except his own ego. The only thing he takes seriously is himself. Pretty cliche for a literary baddie. Like a cross between Lockhart and voldemort.


Are you saying: By the lack of his foresight.......So you are judging God now by Your better understanding.

Do yo know the moral code or something.....? You must since you can judge God and his foresight.

No Where in the bible does God say that this life on earth will be easy or fair.


Why do we blame God for all the evil we do?



No, but I do understand the definitions of both omniscience and omnipotence and how they play together. These apparently justify and augment his authority but don't actually do anything practical. I will happily hold him accountable for not employing these attributes to their full potential (since its effortless for him) and for pinning his own personal failures on a species that merely fell into his trap. We did exactly what he expected us to. That's not our fault.


I would like to see you hold God accountable for his actions. How would you argue Your case against God?


im sure you can find more than enough threads relevant to that question without my wasting the time and energy to type a hypothetical lawsuit.


I see. So basically God would have to answer to the Whole of humanity why he is so crule.



posted on Jun, 22 2015 @ 05:27 PM
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originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: spy66


God is not a being. God cant be.



be
bē/Submit
verb
1.
exist.


so what you said here is, "god cant exist". you just shot your whole argument in the head, point blank, between the eyes.


How can we argue something we dont know and have never experianced?


hmm, i dont know, how do YOU?



You got to lean how to read. I never said God didnt exist.



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