It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Who wants to argue creation?

page: 10
19
<< 7  8  9    11  12  13 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Apr, 3 2015 @ 10:18 AM
link   
a reply to: Shane

Thanks Shane.

The bible claims that "in the beginning god created heaven and earth".That would make the earth the oldest heavenly body in the Universe.

This isn't so. The Universe, along with various structures (stars, planets etc) are many billions of years older than earth.

The bible claims that light, giving the effect of night/day existed before the sun.

This isn't so (it's obviously ridiculous isn't it?).

The bible claims the earth was full of (seed and fruit bearing) plant life, before the sun (or stars) existed.

This isn't so. Photosynthesis (only one point, among many).

The bible claims god created man.

This isn't so. Man evolved from more archaic humans, who evolved from ape like ancestors (we are a species of ape).

I could go on, these are just a few points, we haven't gotten past the first page yet.




posted on Apr, 5 2015 @ 07:11 PM
link   
a reply to: Cogito, Ergo Sum

Thanks for your thoughts, but I would suggest the points offered really have no bearing on the matter.

You have not understood something the tends to be either ignored outright, or conveniently overlooked, or as many churches would suggest, it doesn't matter, Jesus Saves, That's all you need to know.

The IN THE BEGINNING took place at the beginning of time. It's not an event with a specific fixed date, and neither is it confined to the Earth alone. It encompases the whole Universe.

The Sun was revolving around this planet long before the balance of Genesis, (ie Gen 1:2) is narrated. EVOLUTION, or Original Creation, was taking place long before the balance of Genesis, (ie Gen 1:2), is narrated.

Things happened, Organisms grew, life became more abundant and varied. As Science can show, primates changed over the span of time, and it ends.

Here is Genesis 1:2.

Something occurred on this earth that caused this planet to basically become a waste and a desolation. What it was, has little bearing on our conversation. Suffice to say, crap happened.

Prior to this event, The Sun and Moon and Stars where there.

God isn't recreating the Sun and/or Moon. I would think a collison with a comet would make this earth pretty dusty. Dusty enough to block out the Sun, until something settled it. God let the in light.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

This is the first day or the rebuilding of life on this earth.

And before you start on about the "Day" aspect, a "Day" in Chaldean also may infer to and Age, like suggesting the "Day" of the dinosaur. It can mean a era as well as several specific narrowly control period of times (Sun Up to Sun Set or Sun Up to Sun Up)

While you are correct, the plants needed light to grow, but again, due to the destruction that occurred, those seeds are in the ground because they became dormant when the event that caused the sun and moon and stars to be veiled or obstructed happened. The return of Light, and the addition of water, tends to Photosynthesize just fine.

Now, rather than going on, I trust you are getting my point here.

The earth and heavens where here long before Genesis 1:2 occurred. As was what Science has documented. The only aspect not located to date, is the "Missing Link", which I suggest it discussed quite fully in the balance of Genesis chapter 1.



posted on Apr, 5 2015 @ 07:32 PM
link   
all of you do know that the bible was written in stages, and the "apostles" didn't even write down anything about Jesus's life while he was alive, until 80 years after his death....and, for my own interest, isn't it odd that the son of Christ never wrote any documents, letters, proclamations, books????...the son of God never left a written document?....huh???....isn't this odd?... the son of god, and/or his followers never divulged where he was, or what he did, before the age of 32?....this whole thing is a myth, and millions of people have been indoctrinated into a cult much like L. Ron Hubbard's church of scientology...grow up, take responsibility for your own actions, and quit believing in mythical beings. if you do bad things to others, it's your fault, not the devil or demons, it's your own mind...and if you do good things to others, feel good about it, and don't attribute it to some mythical being.....................why is this so hard to accept??????????



posted on Apr, 5 2015 @ 07:36 PM
link   
Without creation we wouldn't be here to argue.



posted on Apr, 6 2015 @ 08:12 AM
link   

originally posted by: iNobody
Without creation we wouldn't be here to argue.


You mean, us humans creating book of myths? I would agree... without those humans with intent to scam, we today would not have biggest scam in history of this planet or for that mater, this discussion.

Well said!



posted on Apr, 6 2015 @ 09:23 AM
link   

originally posted by: SuperFrog

originally posted by: iNobody
Without creation we wouldn't be here to argue.


You mean, us humans creating book of myths? I would agree... without those humans with intent to scam, we today would not have biggest scam in history of this planet or for that mater, this discussion.

Well said!


No I mean, if we were not created. We would not be here to come up with silly ideas, like we got here by ourselves, and other fairy-tale nonsense. lol.



posted on Apr, 6 2015 @ 09:27 AM
link   

originally posted by: iNobody

originally posted by: SuperFrog

originally posted by: iNobody
Without creation we wouldn't be here to argue.


You mean, us humans creating book of myths? I would agree... without those humans with intent to scam, we today would not have biggest scam in history of this planet or for that mater, this discussion.

Well said!


No I mean, if we were not created. We would not be here to come up with silly ideas, like we got here by ourselves, and other fairy-tale nonsense. lol.


This is illogical reasoning. I see no established correlation between having an imagination and being created.



posted on Apr, 6 2015 @ 09:49 AM
link   

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: iNobody

originally posted by: SuperFrog

originally posted by: iNobody
Without creation we wouldn't be here to argue.


You mean, us humans creating book of myths? I would agree... without those humans with intent to scam, we today would not have biggest scam in history of this planet or for that mater, this discussion.

Well said!


No I mean, if we were not created. We would not be here to come up with silly ideas, like we got here by ourselves, and other fairy-tale nonsense. lol.


This is illogical reasoning. I see no established correlation between having an imagination and being created.


Ok. If you were never here and had conscience, you would never be able to imagine that you got here by yourself. Imagination is great. But you wouldn't have it, unless you were given it.
edit on 6-4-2015 by iNobody because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 6 2015 @ 10:07 AM
link   
a reply to: iNobody

That still doesn't make sense. Your argument is just a rehash of the "humans' rationality is unique among the animals on earth, therefore we were created" argument.



posted on Apr, 6 2015 @ 10:43 AM
link   

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: iNobody

That still doesn't make sense. Your argument is just a rehash of the "humans' rationality is unique among the animals on earth, therefore we were created" argument.


Wasn't arguing. Just stating a fact. If you can't comprehend it. That is fine.



posted on Apr, 6 2015 @ 10:56 AM
link   
a reply to: iNobody

No you didn't state a fact. Facts are able to be backed up with evidence. You stated an opinion with some unclear reasoning behind it and are now trying to disguise it as a fact.



posted on Apr, 6 2015 @ 11:07 AM
link   
Who said we got here by ourselves?

There are only those that would say we got here by our fatherly figure, and that is part of fairy tales, most of them we call mythology today, but some still hold on some of them as being 'message', even they see bunch of fairy tale stories in them...

Science has good idea how we got here, and its neither by ourselves, nor we got created. Millions of years of evolution and survival mixed with radiation, change in habitats etc...

And telling that we are only self-aware ... seriously?



posted on Apr, 6 2015 @ 11:34 AM
link   

originally posted by: Shane
You have not understood something the tends to be either ignored outright, or conveniently overlooked, or as many churches would suggest, it doesn't matter, Jesus Saves, That's all you need to know.


Jesus was more than likely a cobbled together story of different people (real and mythical) and myths (dare I say created lol) to fulfill supposed prophecy and in a story about an ultimate "sacrifice". Even if he did exist, the magic didn't. It's mythology.


IN THE BEGINNING took place at the beginning of time. It's not an event with a specific fixed date, and neither is it confined to the Earth alone. It encompases the whole Universe.

I agree with that. Yet there is a little bit you might be overlooking, where it clearly states that "in the beginning, god created the heavens and the earth." That is not ambiguous in any way. One universe, one planet (earth), right at the beginning.

That would be around 13.8 billion years ago. How old is the earth?


Things happened, Organisms grew, life became more abundant and varied. As Science can show, primates changed over the span of time, and it ends.

So far so good, not sure about the last bit though. What is it that ends?


Here is Genesis 1:2.

Something occurred on this earth that caused this planet to basically become a waste and a desolation. What it was, has little bearing on our conversation. Suffice to say, crap happened.

You might need a new bible, if yours really says that.


Prior to this event, The Sun and Moon and Stars where there.

Again, sounds like you have a different bible there. According to all of the other bibles, it is some time before he creates the moon and stars/sun.


God isn't recreating the Sun and/or Moon. I would think a collison with a comet would make this earth pretty dusty. Dusty enough to block out the Sun, until something settled it. God let the in light.


3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

This is the first day or the rebuilding of life on this earth.

And before you start on about the "Day" aspect, a "Day" in Chaldean also may infer to and Age, like suggesting the "Day" of the dinosaur. It can mean a era as well as several specific narrowly control period of times (Sun Up to Sun Set or Sun Up to Sun Up)

Do you mean Hebrew/Aramaic? The people who translated made it clear enough and don't seem to agree with you. As to the comet and dust...to say there is more than a little "imaginative largesse" involved in your interpretation, would be very kind.


While you are correct, the plants needed light to grow, but again, due to the destruction that occurred, those seeds are in the ground because they became dormant when the event that caused the sun and moon and stars to be veiled or obstructed happened. The return of Light, and the addition of water, tends to Photosynthesize just fine.

Now, rather than going on, I trust you are getting my point here.

Yes, it seems you are rewriting the bible (wouldn't be the first lol). The relevant verses seem to quite clearly give a mythological account of creation. Some cultures have a dreamtime and magical serpents, others involve giant turtles. None of them are any more, or less believable.


The earth and heavens where here long before Genesis 1:2 occurred. As was what Science has documented. The only aspect not located to date, is the "Missing Link", which I suggest it discussed quite fully in the balance of Genesis chapter 1.

I would suggest the bible does no such thing, nor is there really a "missing link".



edit on 6-4-2015 by Cogito, Ergo Sum because: for the heck of it



posted on Apr, 6 2015 @ 01:56 PM
link   

originally posted by: iNobody
Imagination is great. But you wouldn't have it, unless you were given it.


And you know this how? LOL at stating a fact. You may want to look up what a fact is if you truly believe that.
edit on 6-4-2015 by Barcs because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 15 2015 @ 02:16 PM
link   
a reply to: Cogito, Ergo Sum

Well you are a very polite fellow in regards to discussions. Thumbs up for that my Friend

We both have a similar view on the subject, although it varies, only in the slightest.

That VARIANCE is interpretation.

You have opted to place a specific literal translation to a text that has presented to the populace by a group of Irish Translators whom worked for a Mason by the Name of King James.

The Original Language isn't quite a specific Source. There are many meanings for words and many applications where words can be miss used, and/or intentionally used, to garner an intended "implication" that best suits the "Religious Sects" needs.

Now clearly the Monks translating the Bible for James, had no intent in creating a NEW TRANSLATION BIBLE that varied from the previous Latin, and Greek Manuscripts. The Errors previously enacted where just carried through as is seen in the King Jame 1611 Bible.

In the Beginning, GOD created the Heaven and the Earth.

That is everything my friend. You find any point in space today, and that is part of that creation. As we are aware, the earth is some 4.5 Billion years old. There are many areas of the heavens that are much old than that, and to that point, some places still being created today. All from something I refer to as Genesis 1:1 and others would opt to refer to as the Big Bang.

Call it what you like. We are all here to discuss. Not throw daggers. lol

In closing, people did infact make things clear and specific in the manufacturing of the Scriptures through time. They have constantly achieved what the aims and goals of the Sect wished to promote.

Today, there are some very serious individuals that would argue this earth and the creation of it could be measured in some 6000 years, give or take. They could go on with conviction, and express many view points to support their belief.

The problem of course, is that this is their belief.

I have mine, and you have yours.

Our's, really isn't all that much different. Context, application, perspective, and such may give an appearance that there is big differences in the views we are expressing, but really there isn't.

Well thanks again for your comments, and look forward discussing things here, or in others topics in the future.

Ciao

Shane



posted on Apr, 15 2015 @ 02:59 PM
link   
a reply to: SuperFrog

To say the Bible and God is a fairytale, is rock bottom
pathetic, as well as being an absolute lie. There is no other
ancient manuscript that comes close to having as much material
available to those who question it's accuracy. I've never heard
of any archeaologist using fairytales to locate lost cities or
kingdoms or palaces, sites and events like they do the Bible.
And no prophecy has ever been fulfilled by a fairytale. Nor has
any fairytale flat out changed someones life. So at least you
now know how really ignorant people are who say
such things. Continue as you will.



posted on Apr, 15 2015 @ 03:24 PM
link   

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: SuperFrog

To say the Bible and God is a fairytale, is rock bottom
pathetic, as well as being an absolute lie. There is no other
ancient manuscript that comes close to having as much material
available to those who question it's accuracy. I've never heard
of any archeaologist using fairytales to locate lost cities or
kingdoms or palaces, sites and events like they do the Bible.
And no prophecy has ever been fulfilled by a fairytale. Nor has
any fairytale flat out changed someones life. So at least you
now know how really ignorant people are who say
such things. Continue as you will.


really?...then why were 52 books of the bible left out?.....I guess they had to decide on which ones to keep in the bible, in regards to that "questioning the accuracy" part?



posted on Apr, 15 2015 @ 04:44 PM
link   

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: SuperFrog

To say the Bible and God is a fairytale, is rock bottom
pathetic, as well as being an absolute lie. There is no other
ancient manuscript that comes close to having as much material
available to those who question it's accuracy.

You are mixing amount of stories with accuracy? Sure, Grimm's Brothers fairy tales are well documented, most of places appear to be in Germany... I used to live in city where they were born, holy place IMHO.


originally posted by: randyvs
I've never heard
of any archeaologist using fairytales to locate lost cities or
kingdoms or palaces, sites and events like they do the Bible.

You're talking about events such as Great Flood, never confirmed, or even major character, Jesus, who we even today don't know if existed, as there is no single shred of evidence of his existance outside of Bible. Noah and his ark... such accurate document about something that never happened. Don't get me wrong, some stories appear to be correct, and as Bible is essentially collection of folklore tales, of course some of them happen to be real events.

This post also makes me wonder if you have ever heard of Troy... Atlantis... but let's stay closer to real archeology. For example, do you know that some real events are mentioned in Bible for example about Hittites, but not acuratly and very incorectly. While bible claims that they lived in east Turkey and today's Siria, today we know that actually their Empire center was in middle Turkey, far away from established roads and very protectively built thanks to mountains and position?! We learn about their belief, wars they were fighting against Egypt and how little improvement in Chariots gave them upper hand on battlefield. But none of this is from Bible, but from archeology, from deciphering their language and reading their records.

There is also this thing, that most of places we learn from Egyptians for example happen to be real events and places, where in Bible case... it is more close to above brothers and their fairy tales. You seem not to believe in happily ever after, do you?



originally posted by: randyvs
And no prophecy has ever been fulfilled by a fairytale. Nor has
any fairytale flat out changed someones life. So at least you
now know how really ignorant people are who say
such things. Continue as you will.

Only ignorant people I know believe that their God is somehow better, more caring and more just then any other Gods, while everything shows that they are very wrong. Listen Sam Harris on this topic...



Please, watch video and comment.


edit on 15-4-2015 by SuperFrog because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 15 2015 @ 08:55 PM
link   
a reply to: SuperFrog

The Bible spoke for centuries of a great Hittite empire.
While scholars gave them credit for being barely a band of
nomads. Until the discovery of Hattusa proved the Bible
correct. As I said, it really does make you look completely
ignorant. And I've seen Sam Harris before so I didn't
torture myself with his tripe. One day, you will know shame
for your lying arrogance.
edit on Rpm41515v022015u47 by randyvs because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 16 2015 @ 05:47 AM
link   
a reply to: randyvs

In short, you don't want discussion, just trolling along...

Your own decision, but don't accuse me of being ignorant...




edit on 16-4-2015 by SuperFrog because: (no reason given)



new topics




 
19
<< 7  8  9    11  12  13 >>

log in

join