A mural from Queen Hatshepsut's Temple includes a maize cob and a pineapple???

originally posted by: LA1IMPALA
a reply to: Spider879 not to try and hijack this thread. Where did corn/maze come from? Supposidly corn was created by our ancestors. A task that i was told would now adays would almost be impossible in our best lab. Corn is mutated grass.

Yes it is like virtually all of our grain crops, I don't know if we could repeat the process today maybe the wild strain is now extinct??

First off, some Indians do, in fact, call it 'corn...'

And secondly, it's difficult to work out the species of produce depicted in a thousands year old wall decoration and thus specious to use it to trash timelines of some very serious researchers.

Researchers who might still be quite wrong and missing vast swathes of information from a much more connected world of yore.

But the corn might be carrots... and the "pineapple" might be a pomegranate, melon or any other vaguely oval object.

originally posted by: Spider879

originally posted by: LA1IMPALA
a reply to: Spider879 not to try and hijack this thread. Where did corn/maze come from? Supposidly corn was created by our ancestors. A task that i was told would now adays would almost be impossible in our best lab. Corn is mutated grass.

Yes it is like virtually all of our grain crops, I don't know if we could repeat the process today maybe the wild strain is now extinct??

A former student of mine traveled to Mexico to study the origins of modern day corn and found what the biologists say was the original wild strain that was domesticated. I've seen reports on corn that say the native species is long extinct but then I've seen others that say it can still be found in Mexico. My student traveled down there with a lady who had won a major prize (Nobel maybe?----it's been a long time so I can't say for sure) studying the corn genome. They believed they had found the original. Somewhere there's a major paper on their studies there but since this was long before the internet came about I'm not sure if it is available but I'll have a look around.
But the domestication process took a very long time so I'm not at all sure how it could be repeated.

I would say that evidence showing that north american indians and egyptians having a connection can be seen by the pyramid complexes locations on the 30th parallel for both civilizations...It would appear the builders were the same based on the orientation of the complexes to orion and the same base size of the main pyramids...

The book of Jasher also records corn existing in egypt during a period of famine that was grown and stored prior to said famine...The pineapple I cannot say but im sure as with most things in the here and now, we have little of the actual facts regarding who contacted who, when and where... a reply to: Spider879

originally posted by: MysterX
a reply to: AdmireTheDistance

The AE rulers knew which side their bread was buttered as far as mind altering substances went. They were also quite fond of the Blue Lotus, which is quite the hallucinogen i gather.

No, it is more of a stimulant. The ancient Egyptiants used to drop the lotus petals in wine and let it soak overnight. It depends on how you dose it I suppose, but the experience is more sedative than visionary.

Teosintes are critical components of maize evolution, but opinions vary about which taxa were involved. According to the most widely held evolutionary model, the crop was derived directly from Zea mays parviglumis by selection of key mutations;[2] up to 12% of its genetic material came from Zea mays mexicana through introgression. Another model proposes that a tiny-eared wild maize was domesticated, and after being spread from east-central Mexico, this cultigen hybridized with Zea luxurians or Zea diploperennis resulting in a great explosion of maize genetic diversity, ear and kernel forms, and capacity to adapt to new habitats, as well as increased yields. A third model suggests that the early maize resulted from a cross between Zea diploperennis and a species of Tripsacum; support for this is minimal[citation needed] . A fourth model posits that teosinte resulted from hybridization between an early wild form of Zea mays mays and Tripsacum.[3]


All but the Nicaraguan species of teosinte may grow in or very near corn fields, providing opportunities for introgression between teosinte and maize. First- and later-generation hybrids are often found in the fields, but the rate of gene exchange is quite low. Some populations of Zea mays mexicana display Vavilovian mimicry within cultivated maize fields, having evolved a maize-like form as a result of the farmers' selective weeding pressure. In some areas of Mexico, teosintes are regarded by maize farmers as a noxious weed, while in a few areas farmers regard it as a beneficial companion plant, and encourage its introgression into their maize.


Early dispersal of maize in the Americas

According to Matsuoka et al, the available early maize gene pool can be divided into three clusters:


An Andean group, that includes the hand-grenade-shaped ear types and some other Andean maize (35 plants);

All other South American and Mexican maize (80 plants);

U.S. maize (40 plants)

There are also some other intermediate genomes, or admixtures of these clusters.


According to these authors, "The maize of the Andes Mountains with its distinctive hand-grenade-shaped ears was derived from the maize of lowland South America, which in turn came from maize of the lowlands of Guatemala and southern Mexico."[2]

I highlighted the last paragraph because wild teosintes are native to central/meso America, and the earliest known instance of gathered teosintes comes from Chile.
Which begs the question, were the teosintes from Chile ,native wild or did the people who gathered them carry them from central America all the way to Chile.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: punkinworks10

Seems as though there are as many theories as there have studies done, eh?
It is difficult to find original, uncontaminated samples to test.
I do know that the natives say that there has always been a trade network that stretched the length and width of both continents. I remember hearing a preliminary report on a rock shelter/cave in south-central Kentucky that had charred corn of a variety that was identified as one growing in central Mexico at the time. Also noted was that while there were lots of charred kernels found, no charred cobs were found, leading the archaeologists to believe that the corn had been shelled from the cobs before being transported into the shelter.
I'm not convinced that their trade network included ancient Egypt. While I can imagine trips between the continents might have taken place, there's just not enough solid evidence to convince me of any sort of extended trade between the continents.

a reply to: diggindirt

I'm not convinced that their trade network included ancient Egypt. While I can imagine trips between the continents might have taken place, there's just not enough solid evidence to convince me of any sort of extended trade between the continents.

Yeah that's my take as well sporadic contacts.

originally posted by: wyrmboy12
I would say that evidence showing that north american indians and egyptians having a connection can be seen by the pyramid complexes locations on the 30th parallel for both civilizations...It would appear the builders were the same based on the orientation of the complexes to orion and the same base size of the main pyramids...

The book of Jasher also records corn existing in egypt during a period of famine that was grown and stored prior to said famine...The pineapple I cannot say but im sure as with most things in the here and now, we have little of the actual facts regarding who contacted who, when and where... a reply to: Spider879

I tend to disagree with the association of pyramid complexes connection having a connection with one another,while they share the same basic shapes how to build is different and function is very different.

One point I failed to make was that corn is essentially a weed and if it had made it to the old world, it would have taken root, so to speak, and would have persisted, just as it did in all through the Americas.

a reply to: Spider879 yet our ancestors did 100's of thousands of years ago without a lab ?

For me the first one could be a carrot, but the second one is most definitly a Dragon Fruit or Pitaya.

originally posted by: foofighter00
For me the first one could be a carrot, but the second one is most definitly a Dragon Fruit or Pitaya.

Wow I have never seen so many unique looking fruits in my life this knowledge alone is worth the thread..U guys are simply awesome!!..

The pineapples are most likely artichokes, Egypt also happened to be the worlds top producer of them in 2012 en.wikipedia.org...

The "corn" is most likely Chicory root jonbarron.org... especially with all that other stalk and business in the one photo... what is seen as leaves pulled back is likely just the stalks chopped off afterwards.

No worries though, even a "maverick" Egyptologist made the same connection before... www.atlanticconference.org... and made some very good arguments for it... even go so far as to say every basket was a pineapple with the top chopped off.

But food is very perishable, and once favored it is in extremely high demand, and when some one wants it... they want it quick and on hand, so it's doubtful that something that would be considered such a delicacy as rare foods from exotic or barbarian places in ancient Egypt's eyes, would just be heaped around among lesser foods, but instead eaten with special ceremony and pomp. Remember, Greek and Roman royalty were just commoners from barbarian lands, compared to the Pharaohronic class that were venerated as gods at the time. So to gain favor and eventually take them over Romans and Greeks fiend being of the pharaoh lineage and practiced their mannerisms to gain favor and eventually took control.

Am I saying Egyptians never landed in the Americas? Nope. But is this food from there and pineapples and corn? Extremely doubtful and very highly unlikely.

Few people respect food these days in the 1st world because it is so abundant, but people in ancient times knew how hard it was to have on hand and cultivate... hell it was how people paid "taxes" for 1000's of years and stored in royal guarded places for "just in case" shtf scenarios. So anything so rare to a people as; pineapple or corn would have been venerated or eaten in special ceremony and have come at a very high trade price.