You don't need a weekend

Wait. I have worked eight and ten-day stretches without a day off, and so have many people. The pay period is what decides it, where I live. In a two week period, we were not to work over ten days without overtime pay. It was hard on us, but then we crashed on our four days off. Could that be what he's talking about? Sorry it's late for me and I'm about to hit the sack.

originally posted by: liejunkie01
I have a few questions for everyone against unions here.

What are the current wages being paid for shift work? What are the wages being paid for skilled work? What are the benefit packages at these establishments?

Here is a comparison.

Boeing SC (RTW) vs WA (Union)
Cost of living in Charleston, SC is 93% of Everett, WA. So any wage 93% or higher in SC compared to WA is equal or greater in the RTW state.

These are the jobs that appeared in both cities with identical names.

Intern - Hourly
$23.13/hr (98%)
$23.66/hr

Engineer
$77,388 (80%)
$97,194

Industrial Engineer
$78,523 (110%)
$71,310

Glassdoor.com

originally posted by: aboutface
Could that be what he's talking about? Sorry it's late for me and I'm about to hit the sack.

The FUD campaign is that if all states become RTW, then without people being forced into unions the evil employers will make everyone work 16 hours a day, 7 days a week like some Dickensian factory nightmare of the early 1800s.

Only it doesn't work that way.

originally posted by: doompornjunkie
ETA: Also the fact that working the 7th day is voluntary still protects employees from their employers. Any and all opposition to this is pure nonsense.

Nothing in an employer/employee relationship is voluntary. If you don't work when they ask, it will come back to hurt you.

a reply to: Aazadan

I live in a right to work state, I tell my employer NO 95% of the time they ask me to work when I am not scheduled. So I disagree.

a reply to: links234

Why does this not supprise that there would be a push on to get this in. Why does something tell me that we will hear more and more about this as time goes by.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Then you have an employer who isn't a jackass. I'm against laws that legally empower and financially reward employers for treating their employees poorly. That's what this law does.

I remember this one job I had a few years back. I couldn't work overtime because I had to go to class and take a test. Months afterwards, not working that overtime was used as an excuse to not give me a raise... never mind all the other unpaid overtime I had put in. Not being able to do it once is all that mattered.

a reply to: links234

Goddamn the Wisconsin GOP for trying to allow workers to make more money by volunteering to work more hours! What a bunch of rational bastards.

a reply to: Aazadan

There seems to be a disconnect between some people on here. A lot of experience with unions and with employers is anecdotal. I've had great jobs with great employers at every job I've had. I need some time off, I get some time off. I've heard pretty terrible stories of other people who make significantly less than I do at different places.

The concept behind the weekend law is so that workers don't get taken advantage of. It's not necessarily to protect the average worker but the ones where the employer holds everything over them. There are a lot of employers who skate on the edge of labor laws. Most of the problem lately is arbitrarily altering work schedules in high turnover jobs, 'work this schedule that I just made or I find someone new.'

I agree with a lot of the people here who argue that people should be able to negotiate their work schedules with their employers if they want to. I'm concerned about the people that are taken advantage of by employers. When more and more jobs become part time and turnover rates get higher and higher is when we start to see people being taken advantage of simply because they're trying to put food on the table.

a reply to: Aazadan

Then let's stop the lies that this is a RTW problem, and employers that don't screw people will now be able to.

There are good employers and bad employers. In RTW states and in the others. There are ways to protect workers while allowing them to work, rather than focus on how this is so bad, how about we focus on how this can be so great.

originally posted by: Iamthatbish
The whole right to work thing is a tragedy.

People can't just work constant hours until they die. Insurance will go up due to on the job injuries. I'm so discusted that anyone would sign these bills into law. Do they not think of the consiquences of these actions?!

Yes not only that, when would people actually get the time to be consumers? it means that trade would actually decline, what a joke. They would be cutting their own throats.

a reply to: links234

Where do you lazy Socialists come up with the end results?

The bill allows people to make the choice to work without taking a day off.

Amazing, as I know people like you don't like working, but to stop others is pretty controlling.

As a business owener, I work seven days a week and most likely always will.

I give my employees the choice to work overtime. They never take it, but that's their choice. I see nothing wrong with this bill.

If ya don't want to work weekends, don't.

originally posted by: Autorico
As long as I got paid overtime and was able to choose when I worked, I would be fine with it.

You'll be glad to know Republicans are throwing overtime pay out the window as well!

H.R. 1406: More Work, Less Pay--A Republican Bill to Upend Overtime Pay for Workers

The House Republican bill H.R. 1406 is the latest in a string of GOP attacks on workers' rights. The bill would force an unnecessary choice between overtime pay that workers rely on and time off that they may never be able to take advantage of. H.R. 1406 would give employers the ability to offer compensatory time off in exchange for any overtime wages the worker has earned. For instance, under current law, if an hourly employee is paid at 1.5 times the rate of their wage for hours worked more than 40 hours in a week. However, under this bill, the employer can take all of those wages earned above 40 hours and put into a pot for future time off that is controlled by the employer. In other words, the worker would not get paid for the work they perform during their current pay period. Unused time would be paid back at the end of the year, amounting to a no-interest loan to employers from workers.

Overtime Laws Could Be Loosened Under GOP Comp-Time Proposal

House Republicans Push Through Bill To Change Overtime Pay Law

So 7-day work weeks, and no over time pay (you'll get mandatory days off at your employer's choosing instead).

This is what you get when you kill off unions. Now there is NO ONE to fight for worker's benefits or pay.

I feel like this is a good place to share a debate I had with one, David Macaray , who has written numerous pro union articles all over the news spectrum. First, for those interested, here is a link to his original article, from Counterpunch (great site by the way)
O, Labor, Where Art Thou?
This came out right when Michigan became a RTW state..
My response, and his.
----------------------------------
Sir,
I just finished reading your article on Counterpunch.com, “O Labor, Where Art Thou?”
I was surprised to see it end so promptly. You made a great case, using personal experience, to show that “ignorant b*st*rds” go “ape-s**t”
When you compare constitutional and labor union checks and balances, and how these people have no answer to your big question. However, (and this is where I expected the article to go, before scrolling down to find it ends there)
You do not seem to even try to make a case that labor unions would break the so called death grip, corporate America holds.
My question, is why go out of your way to write an article, ridiculing people (or as you say “ignorant b*st*rds”) for not having a solution to a problem, and in that very same article, not try and make a case that unions would help/solve that problem.
I will end my message, the same way you started your article.
It’s astonishing that we have all these people out there- all these opinionated, patriotic folks-who, without any prompting, will spontaneously burst into rhapsodic discourse about how much they(insert opinion here) That’s exactly what you did in this article.
----------------------------------------------------
I thought I made it clear. My "solution" was part of my premise. It's all about muscle. The very existence of unions funnels higher wages and benefits into the hands of workers. But if you happen to think that unions are "poison," there ain't no way (as I noted in the article) that I'm going to change your mind.
Thanks for taking time to write.
dm
-------------------------------------------
I for one don’t feel unions are poison. However, working in the manufacturing industry, as a non-union employee. I see firsthand, the laziness and self entitled attitude union workers have. Here in Michigan, (now, just recently a “right to work state”) we saw a bunch of union employees caught drinking and using drugs on break. Caught, red handed. Unions prevented them from being fired on the spot.
I am by no means anti-union, or anything like that, but with the story I just mentioned, combined with guys like Danny Greene, Jimmy Hoffa, ect. I just wish unions would act in the way they were meant to.
Until then, “right to work” makes more sense to me. Thanks for the response, I did not expect it.
-------------------------------------------
---Two things:
(1) A plant manager once told me that union shops are going to attract the BEST workers in the community. Why? Because union shops paid the best wages and offered the best benefits. And who but the best workers in a community are going to want those jobs?
(2) I was the president of a manufacturing union for 9 years. People were fired all the time. The main reason? Chronic absenteeism. It sounds like your management team was either stupid or gutless or both. Any boss who won't fire an employee who deserves to be fired is a pussy. And any boss who says the union won't "allow him to fire someone" is a LIAR and a p*ssy.
I can absolutely, positively tell you that union members get fired every day. I saw it with my own eyes for 9 years!! It's management that wants you to believe otherwise. Blaming the union gets them off the hook, don't you see?
-----------------------------
It was not my management team. It was Chrysler.
Like I said, My work is non-union, but we do work for Chrysler.
www.huffingtonpost.com...
www.realclearpolitics.com...
He never responded back to that.
Ya see folks, even union lovers like "DM" can't defend guys like the ones I referenced in the article links I provided for him
Unions had their time. Sorry for the abusively long post, but I thought it was worth sharing

originally posted by: Blackmarketeer


This is what you get when you kill off unions. Now there is NO ONE to fight for worker's benefits or pay.

You still believe that Unions are for you and the others "workers"?

I got a bridge in NY for sale. Real cheap too.

How the hell do these guys even have a chance to be a political party.

And if so, they are religious bunch trying to take Sunday away, which goes against the Bible that they preach? And going against God is like going against death....

They really wanna go to hell don't they.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Aazadan

Then let's stop the lies that this is a RTW problem, and employers that don't screw people will now be able to.

There are good employers and bad employers. In RTW states and in the others. There are ways to protect workers while allowing them to work, rather than focus on how this is so bad, how about we focus on how this can be so great.

Ultimately it's a problem with employers that are jerks. In a system where people can exploit labor for profit though you have to expect that it's going to happen. That means restrictions need to be created. Like the saying goes, that which protects also restrains.

I suppose the alternative fix would be to let everyone be their own boss, so that employers have to compete on working conditions. We don't currently have an economic system in which people can do that though. In fact most people don't want to be their own boss. It's a lot of risk and a lot of extra work, which is pretty logical really... more people need to be followers than leaders. Followers should still be taken care of.