Afghan Mob Beats and Burns Woman

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

I think Beez means, in the actual Quran is there a specific line about punishment for burning it?

a reply to: zazzafrazz

Pull up a chair M'Lady...

It is wholey more civilised in this corner of the thread

a reply to: zazzafrazz

Ahhhh, ok, no not that I know of.

I may have missed that going through it.


But I'd stick my leg out and say no not in the Quran itself.

Maybe a Hadith.

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

But that isn't the point.

Is there a penalty for burning a religious text (Koran)?

And what is that penalty?

Apostasy is the basic charge in all cases.

The Qur'an:
Qur'an (4:89) - "They wish that you should disbelieve as they disbelieve, and then you would be equal; therefore take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of God; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper."

Qur'an (9:11-12) - "But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion. We detail Our revelations for a people who have knowledge. And if they break their pledges after their treaty (hath been made with you) and assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief - Lo! they have no binding oaths - in order that they may desist."

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: grandmakdw

On his expert authority condemn an entire faith to death then?
THAT is the ONLY option if THAT is true.

No, not on his authority, on the Koran. The Islamic Scholar and previous devout Muslim spent six weeks teaching us using the Koran and proving his points using the Koran.

It is true that being a martyr is the one and only guarantee of going to paradise.

If you don't do that,
one must be as good as you can possibly be all the time,
following every command in the Koran
and live one's life as close to the way Muhammed lived as possible.
When one dies, according to Islam, one's good and bad deeds are weighed
(remember if Muhammad did it, it is a good deed,
and he beheaded well over 600 people and married and had sex with a child);
if ones good deeds outweigh the bad then Allah will make the final decision
Even if ones good deeds outweigh the bad Allah may still decide that one is not worthy of entering Paradise.

Therefore, a devout Muslim,
may or may not go to Paradise,
depending on how Allah views their deeds once they die.
There is no assurance of going to Paradise, unless one is a martyr for the faith.

I am not condemning them anywhere, this is what the Koran teaches.

There is no grace or forgiveness involved in Islam
as far as going to Paradise,
there is only the weighing and judging of deeds,
with the final judgement at Allah's discretion.

a reply to: greencmp

Burning the Qur'an is not enough to levy Apostasy charges according to it's text. One must turn from the faith entirely, and attempt to turn OTHERS from the faith as well. A simple book-burning is not enough to determine that. Once again, the extremists who punished this woman are probably interpreting the Qur'an quite incorrectly.

From what I've just perused some may see it as an afront to Allah to desecrate the Quran in the sense that it is a blatant disrepect to Allah Himself...

However nothing specifically mentions Quranic desecration being punishable...


Just other verses used and twisted into the context of such...


But I'd always say it shouldn't be punishable or the person is aligning the book itself with Allah...
Sort of an idolatry.


Most "scholars" may differ on that...
But they're useless anyways.

originally posted by: zazzafrazz
a reply to: greencmp

Because I was replying DIRECTLY to the OPs long winded how UN EVIL and infallible Christians are compared to Muslims.

I never said that what so ever.........you've supplanted what I said for your own version of what I said.......

yes there have been incidents of small groups of Christians doing this sort of thing.......but to equate them to whats going on with islam is dishonest at best...


Never once did I call them infallible , so please don't insert your own ideology into something that I never stated.......

Again The thread has become exactly what I said I thought it would.......

"Well Christians did this"

One form of madness is no excuse for another form of madness........

The whole point of this post was to highlite the fact that with all the anti Christian stuff we see on ATS and indeed the outrage by people on the news for perceived slights by the Christian religion (ie: Crosses or ten commandments or in god we trust in the pledge, nativity scenes, Christian business owners refuses to bake cakes) we have actual atrocities being committed by REAL extremist

This thread is further proof that while people call for boycotts and shutting down of businesses for things like that, they DOWNPLAY or divert to another excuse for things like this..........

But its ok, lets keep ignoring the actual problem........

unbelievable

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
a reply to: greencmp

Burning the Qur'an is not enough to levy Apostasy charges according to it's text. One must turn from the faith entirely, and attempt to turn OTHERS from the faith as well. A simple book-burning is not enough to determine that. Once again, the extremists who punished this woman are probably interpreting the Qur'an quite incorrectly.

Tell that to the Afghans.

a reply to: greencmp

You cannot reason with extremists. It's like trying to argue with the Westboro folks, they cannot be turned from their blindness. They are so indoctrinated that any attempt to reason with them is seen as an attack on their very beliefs.

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

It amazes me how the women over there will take a beating for no reason. Steal the man's weapon as he sleeps and use it. Die for something one woman at a time.

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

Yes it is my understanding of of what you said, I took your post as just that.

a reply to: greencmp

Surah 4:137

Surely those who believed and then disbelieved, believed again and then disbelieved, and then went on increasing in their disbelief, surely Allah is not to forgive them, nor does He guide them on the path.




Tell me where the above mentions death for Apostacy?



Minor Apostacy, above, is unpunishable...

Major Apostacy, turning on Allah & fighting against believers so to destroy their faith, is punishable, and a call to Jihad.

Islam being Islam. Move along. Nothing to see here.

originally posted by: greencmp

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
a reply to: greencmp

Burning the Qur'an is not enough to levy Apostasy charges according to it's text. One must turn from the faith entirely, and attempt to turn OTHERS from the faith as well. A simple book-burning is not enough to determine that. Once again, the extremists who punished this woman are probably interpreting the Qur'an quite incorrectly.

Tell that to the Afghans.

Which ones?

The criminals?


Or those who arrested the criminals?

originally posted by: zazzafrazz
a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

Yes it is my understanding of of what you said, I took your post as just that.

that's not the intention behind the post, as ive stated many times on many threads I do no believe all islam is bad, nor do I believe all Christians are infallible........

However there is obviously a problem with REAL religious extremism that is often times placated, in favor of outrage that's much more political...........perhaps its because the media is pushing the agenda that Cake bakers are the real problem.......

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

And, frankly, it is an attack or their beliefs in the sense that their beliefs, while perhaps hyperbolized, represent the majority belief system.

As a majority, it is hard to attribute "extremism" to it. Militarized, or holy militarized comes close.

Her father said she was mentally ill..,if you ask me she was totally sane
and a real martyr,courageously showing the imbecilic " believers"
what she thought of this totally unreformable so called religion..I wonder
when all the brainwashed will finally wake up.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs

originally posted by: greencmp

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
a reply to: greencmp

Burning the Qur'an is not enough to levy Apostasy charges according to it's text. One must turn from the faith entirely, and attempt to turn OTHERS from the faith as well. A simple book-burning is not enough to determine that. Once again, the extremists who punished this woman are probably interpreting the Qur'an quite incorrectly.

Tell that to the Afghans.

Which ones?

The criminals?


Or those who arrested the criminals?

The mob.

originally posted by: simplesurfer
Her father said she was mentally ill..,if you ask me she was totally sane
and a real martyr,courageously showing the imbecilic " believers"
what she thought of this totally unreformable so called religion..I wonder
when all the brainwashed will finally wake up.

and this is probably why moderate muslims are afraid to speak out