Whether Or Not Homosexuality Is A Choice Is Irrelevant

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Annee

I thought I'd provide a few "links" that indicate that everything is going to be okay and we don't to worry about these bad ol' homosexuals.

www.disney.com

www.candyland.com

www.anniethemusical.com

Just whistle while you work and slide down to the Candy Castle ... the links prove it!

Seriously though. I believe that some folks think that ANY link to ANY information is considered a valid source.

LOL, love it

Why is he posting links to articles by a gay journalist on blacks on the down low and HIV ?

Maybe he should read the real history of HIV and its origin.

He's in desperate extreme now ----- reaching for anything. Even posted a link to: Prison Planet.

a reply to: ISeekTruth101

Again, trying to imply that I'm not able to understand your "thesis" only makes you look silly.

So ... your blame for homosexual parents is the absence of a father or mother figure because that impacts the emotional development of the child in some way.

That's all you've been claiming this whole time? All that chatter about abnormality, false comparisons to everything under the sun relating to parenting and so forth was just, what, preface

Let me assure you, the typical gay household has more than a gracious plenty of mommy and daddy figures, of all sexes, races, ages and genders.

Intentional parents you know, rather than mere biological happenstance.

Your concern is simply unfounded. It's all going to be okay!

And for goodness sake, quit trying to be so nasty to people; you're not very good at it.

a reply to: Annee

You know, I've noticed before ... that some folks seem very interested, might even say obsessed with what other folks do in their private lives.

HIV has indeed been a scourge on humanity. I wonder how it stacks up over history against gonorrhea, syphilis, hepatitis?

a reply to: MstWntd

'Homosexuals are a dying breed'?.....

You sure sound like you know what you're talking about....

Evolution/natural selection hasn't removed homosexuality from our species over the last 250,000+ years.......surely if it were detrimental, it would have?

Based on the argument I posed for same-sex parenting, and the correlation with single parenting that I suggested ... you only need to look at statistics for single parents to see the obvious negative impacts.

originally posted by: ISeekTruth101
Based on the argument I posed for same-sex parenting, and the correlation with single parenting that I suggested ... you only need to look at statistics for single parents to see the obvious negative impacts.

Yet you've not shown any such correlation, just your feelings on the matter...

*SNIP*

Interesting that AVERT's webpage home photo is a hetero couple.

My question is only why bring it into this discussion?

For people who believe in Western Exceptionalism - including the mis-guided embracing of predatory and promiscuous homosexuality - the Russians knew how to manipulate this to their favor as far back as WWII:

www.wf-f.org...
SECRECY AND SUBVERSION - GAYS AS SPIES
Homosexuality is a subversive social identity because homosexuals feel themselves to be despised and marginalized. This gives some homosexuals a large psychological stake in subverting the established social and moral order, which they inevitably see as oppressive to themselves.

Although there are patriotic homosexuals, homosexuality is a way of life which tends to undermine great loyalties - and to reduce everything to personal relationships. Thus British homosexuals were recruited by the Soviets in disproportionate numbers during the l930s.

www.gaynazis.com...

www.livescience.com...
WHY RUSSIA IS ANTI-GAY
Interesting history lesson. But the Russian people are RIGHT in assuming that pedophilia and rape are related to homosexuality:

www.frc.org...
HOMOSEXUALITY AND CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE

www.nytimes.com...
SEXUAL ASSAULT IN U.S. MILITARY - MALE ON MALE ASSAULT IS 53% OF ALL REPORTED RAPES

And here we go again, painfully having to relearn the lessons of WWII ....

www.wnd.com...
(2008) WANTED: GAY SPIES
The British intelligence service MI5 has launched its first recruiting drive for homosexual spies and support staff - abandoning almost a century of policy that barred such employees because they would be vulnerable to blackmail. (I sense Bilderberg's fingerprints all over this ...)

www.massresistance.org...
(Sept. 2012) WHILE YOU WEREN'T LOOKING - FBI AND CIA EMBRACED HOMOSEXUAL MOVEMENT
Watch for crackdowns on pro-family groups. And all forms of religion and faith-based groups too.

And Yes, on the surface, homosexuals are very immature and selfish. (Which is why some married gays insist that their homosexual leanings were just an immature phase they went thru. And that they are all grown up now and worthy of trust. NOT!) Homosexuals want - demand - more and better rights than anyone else. But then refuse to help/support anyone outside their Agenda:

www.slate.com...
MARC AMBINDER: HOW WASHINGTON'S GAY MAFIA HELPED MY CAREER

Personally, all I can identify of "Western Exceptionalism" today, is our overly-naive capacity to be fooled, redirected and manipulated.

a reply to: MKMoniker

Can you state what your references say about whether "homosexuality is a choice"?

If not, will you please stop repeatedly spamming the conversation with links and no commentary from you as to their relevance to the actual question, rather than merely any negative, pointless, insulting, garbage that answers your Google call?

I also truly do not understand how people can say homosexuality is unnatural...hundreds and hundreds of animal species engage in homosexual behavior...so are animals unnatural? Do they have higher cognitive faculties that allow them to make the conscious choice to engage in homosexual behavior, and thereby sin?

So, homosexuality being unnatural is another nonsense argument.

originally posted by: MstWntd

originally posted by: TzarChasm
having friends with just such a background, i can tell you that a same sex relationship offers no less of the essentials than a heterosexual relationship. i dont know the numbers right offhand, but shall we look at the divorce statistics for the last decade? how many children raised by single parents? how many were shuffled in between? how many children are raised by alcoholics? or drug addicts? or gamblers? how "impressionable" are they when dad comes home drunk and hits mom, or when theres no food on the table because grandpa spent the money on blackjack. so while we are on the subject of mental and emotional wellbeing, lets talk about all those problems that EVERYONE grew up with, whether it be under same sex parents or heterosexual. i can tell you that those kids are not secondary. gay people love just as deeply, just as sincerely, and just as...well...rollercoaster-y as the rest of us. they are people, dude. they love just like you and me. so do gamblers and alcoholics and prostitutes. so do lawyers, mormons, republicans and the ku klux klan. you would be surprised where you can find love. even under layers and layers of stigma.

My friend you are conflating my argument for the "rights of the child" vs "the whining of a same sex couple" to "are hetrosexual parents better than homosexual parents?"

any attempt to address your post (and believe me there is much to say) will derail the topic/convo/entire discussion.. so yeah please start another thread for this..

You know I always find it funny that people are ready to defend the "choice" of two same sex people wanting to bring up a child.. but no one says "wait.. what does the child want?.. is this infringing his/her rights to a hetrosexual family?.. are we doing the best for the child?.."

"rights of the child" is a cheap appeal to the maternal/paternal instincts to prop your thinly veiled suggestion that homosexuals are of a more questionable character than heterosexuals. the fact being that being a good parent isnt a matter of being black or white or gay or straight or rich or poor.

a reply to: TheJourney

Better question ... why do people care?

If you're not gay, don't have sex with someone of your own sex. Don't pay attention to what others who do that are doing?

Why not let other people live their lives as they see fit within the boundaries of the law?

Perhaps they "doth protest too much"?

What other Agenda are they secretly pursuing?

I think we have to leave things alone and stop making victimless "sin" illegal. Freedom of choice is what we would be judged on. But an all knowing God would clearly allow choice when it already knows the outcome right?

If everything is fate, then it was created that way. There is no honor in someone living a life on the rails where bad choices are impossible. Its in the freedom to F* up that honor is possible and defined.

I don't care if my neighbor marries an intersexed goat. Long as they understand to never trust goats. And long as they keep their eyes off my goat, I'm ok with them.

a reply to: MKMoniker

ALL of your links (that relate to the OP "natural or choice") are from: Family Value, religious, or conservative sites.

None of their nonsense can hold up to scrutiny. None. It's all been debunked.

I know, because I've been following this subject for 20 years.

originally posted by: ISeekTruth101
Based on the argument I posed for same-sex parenting, and the correlation with single parenting that I suggested ... you only need to look at statistics for single parents to see the obvious negative impacts.

Affirming the Consequent

This is a fairly difficult fallacy to understand or spot. It is categorical in nature and, essentially, means reversing an argument, or putting the cart before the horse, meaning reversing or confusing the general category with the specific/sub-category. Note that in this fallacy the premises/reasons are actually correct or valid; the error is found between the premises and conclusion. Usually, the error occurs because we incorrectly assume that the Premise was a sufficient condition, when in fact it was only a necessary condition (one of many conditions) necessary to prove the conclusion.

Fallacy Ex:
Premise: Ducks are birds.
Premise: Ducks swim in the water.
Premise: Chickens are birds.
False Conclusion: Chickens swim in the water.
(Affirming The Consequent Fallacy: not all birds swim in water; swimming is neither a necessary or sufficient condition to be the thing "bird")

Fallacy Ex:
Premise: You loved The Matrix.
Premise: Keanu Reaves is in The Matrix
Premise: Keanu Reaves is in Speed.
Conclusion: You must love Speed.
(Affirming The Consequent Fallacy: you may have like The Matrix even if you don't like Keanu Reaves, or in spite of the fact that he was in it, or maybe you liked him in it but hate him in everything else etc.)

List of Logical Fallacies: University of Idaho

a reply to: Gryphon66

I answered that on 10:43AM - page 8. (Although it may have moved by now. For some strange reason, ATS lets "later posters" sneak in replies ahead of the original posters.) Basically, this is what I said:

The argument of Choice versus Determinism with homosexuals is meaningless. Since they are extremely predatory, and people born Hetero have been bent to their will, all to fit their viciously selfish Agenda.

I also stated that "staying out of people's bedrooms" is a lovely little saying. But that homosexuality is not a sexual-fetish. It is a promiscuous and predatory LIFESTYLE, and few of them use bedrooms anyway.

The links I posted were all in answer to questions in previous posts. But it's hard to tell in a fast-moving thread like this, where your disconnected reply ends up 4 pages later.

Also, this is an overly-emotional argument with hysterical homosexuals trying to furiously browbeat down any dissenting voice. So I presented links to substantive articles and scientific studies on the many dangers of homosexuality, as corroborative evidence for those who have been looking for such.

I put the "It is Choice" people in the same category as the "Flat Earth Society".

For whatever reason they choose to hold on to an ignorant belief.

originally posted by: MKMoniker
a reply to: Gryphon66

The argument of Choice versus Determinism with homosexuals is meaningless. Since they are extremely predatory, and people born Hetero have been bent to their will, all to fit their viciously selfish Agenda.

I also stated that "staying out of people's bedrooms" is a lovely little saying. But that homosexuality is not a sexual-fetish. It is a promiscuous and predatory LIFESTYLE, and few of them use bedrooms anyway.

Also, this is an overly-emotional argument with hysterical homosexuals trying to furiously browbeat down any dissenting voice.

You are truly delusional...

Doing the same things as a heterosexual couple, with someone of the same sex, is predatory! And those gays don't even use bedrooms, they just run around having sex in random places and being predatorial!

And if you don't agree, you yourself must be a homosexual!

Delusion loves company, at least there's another person or two here who seem to agree with your nonsense.

originally posted by: MKMoniker

The argument of Choice versus Determinism with homosexuals is meaningless. Since they are extremely predatory, and people born Hetero have been bent to their will, all to fit their viciously selfish Agenda.

Need LEGITIMATE documentation to back that up.

Ever been to a "hot spot" bar of hetero 20/30 year olds?

Apparently you choose to focus on a different stereotype.

However, you have/had a minority fringe group forced to live underground or on the edge of society. What did they do? Created their own culture out of necessity. Not because they wanted to ---- because they had to.

And who made them to do that? Oh yeah, the self righteous heteros.

The "gay culture" is dying. Why? Because they no longer need to live hidden (at least in some countries).