Social Questions

Because of all the recent social unrest and political hub-bub, I have decided to ask a few simple questions to see how the people of ATS respond.

I am honestly interested to see what certain people have to say about these questions - and their viewpoints on them.

The reason I ask these questions is because there are certain comments on this site and attitudes which defy my logic. They are reactions that seem more grounded in emotional unrest and hate than anything else.

So if you could, please take the time to answer these simple questions - perhaps some people's answers might surprise you.

Question 1

Let's say that I was a homosexual baker and a customer came into my business and asked me to bake a cake for an anti-homosexual rally. Further more they wanted the cake to be decorated with anti-homosexual bible quotes, etc. Should I refuse them service?

If I did refuse them service should I be able to be punished by fines, or have my business shut down?



Question 2

My neighbor has openly admitted to me that they are saving money for a gun. They told me they plan to use this gun to kill me and my entire family. I tell everyone around me what is happening, even the police, but no one does anything to stop the person in a peaceful manner - am I in the wrong if I attack the person first before they can hurt me, thus protecting my entire family?



Question 3

I am the boss of a company. If I decided to take part of your retirement away form you and give it to employees of another company who don't really work for our company, only because they demand the benefits of our company - am I in the wrong?



Question 4

If I were to give you statistics that were proven to be false, but they conform to your viewpoints - would you choose to believe those statistics without researching them first?



Question 5

Last but not least - If I moved into your neighborhood and painted my house blue because it is my favorite color, and all other houses are red, should I have the right to demand you paint your houses blue because the color makes me happier than red?

Sorry I'm to tired for this right now

1)
Nope- you should be able to refuse service to anyone you want. Otherwise, you're being forced to help someone do something that hurts you. Only the government can do that!

2)
I'll do what it takes to protect me and mine. I'd nip the whole thing in the bud, but probably in a non-violent way... Only because if I, say, burned down his house to save the lives of me&mine, I'd be punished. Can't punish someone for conspiracy to commit a crime- only government can do that!

3)
What's retirement?
I'm forced to pay into some sort of retirement thing (SSC?) that I 100% know I'll never see a penny of. If I worked for YOU, and YOU were taking a portion of MY pay until I retired, and then YOU took MY money to give to someone else, that's wrong. Only Government can do that!

4)
Sadly, probably. I guess it depends on what I'm doing with the information. If you told me that 79% of people in the US preferred fried chicken to roast duck, I'd probably be suspect- but I'd believe it. If you told me that 75% of US population was happy with the current state of our government, I'd probably believe that, too- How else does it not get torn down? I don't really know if I'd believe them or not... but I'm guessing that the Government does this!

5)
You can demand until you're BLUE in the face. I hate the color red, but if I happened to live in a RED house and you demanded I paint my house BLUE because you like it, I'd probably tell you to go fly a kite. Depending on how annoying you were, I might even paint my house WHITE just to really mess with you. Let me guess- the Government is trying to do this?

a reply to: MentorsRiddle

These are my opinions:

Q1: Make the cake, take pics and report as a hate crime.

Q2. Don't attack first, you will be liable in court. Record evidence of threats and take to police.

Q3. Yes, that is wrong.

Q4. Personally, no. I like to research and come to my own conclusions.

Q5. Hell no.

Ok, I'll be the first to bite:

Question 1: That has already happened so speculation be da.ned. What actually happens in a case like this? What would happen is you would be praised in the national media and probably be given an award by some LGBT organization or by NBC, MSNBC, CNN, CBS or ABC or the White House.

Question 2: Yes you would be breaking the law if you attacked first. However, you would be within your rights to attack first if the neighbor set one foot in your house while possessing a gun. Having told the police numerous times, it would be in the official record what they threatened to do. At the first sign of a gun pointed at you or a family member, self defense would be legal after you reported it to authorities as many times and to as many people as possible. (I'd also check with a lawyer and have all your ducks in order with a lawyer also before shooting them once they set one pinkie in over the threshold of your house, remember they must fall into the house, or you must drag them in before calling the police)

Question 3: The employees could sue you and most likely win big time driving you to bankruptcy and out of business with a civil lawsuit. (I'm not a lawyer, just my best educated guess)

Question 4: Depends on the stats and where they came from. I taught Research Methods in university. I know that stats are way too easily manipulated and should NEVER be taken at face value, unless there were well over 3000 participants AND the study was replicated and most but not all the replications showed the same results. If they all showed the same results, then I would NOT believe it, because then collusion has resulted. No studies should all have the same results. Believe one study alone? Hardly. Consider it as possibly true, yes, but with reservations, regardless of if I agree with the results or not.

Question 5: No, but there are plenty of people who think you have that right. Silly question, can't tell what you are getting at.

originally posted by: MentorsRiddle
Question 1

Let's say that I was a homosexual baker and a customer came into my business and asked me to bake a cake for an anti-homosexual rally. Further more they wanted the cake to be decorated with anti-homosexual bible quotes, etc. Should I refuse them service?

It would depend on several things. If you already make specialized custom decorations for other "anti-whatever" rallys, then it would be up to you. You would not be legally obligated to do it, because "anti-homosexuals" (bigots) are not a protected class.

If I did refuse them service should I be able to be punished by fines, or have my business shut down?

Explained above. You would not be punished by fines because "anti-homosexuals" are not a protected class.

Question 2

My neighbor has openly admitted to me that they are saving money for a gun. They told me they plan to use this gun to kill me and my entire family. I tell everyone around me what is happening, but no one does anything to stop the person in a peaceful manner - am I in the wrong if I attack the person first before they can hurt me, thus protecting my entire family?

Yes. you are legally in the wrong. That's called vigilante justice. You should contact the authorities.

Question 3

I am the boss of a company. If I decided to take part of your retirement away form you and give it to employees of another company who don't really work for our company, only because they demand the benefits of our company - am I in the wrong?

With only the information you've given, yes.

Question 4

If I were to give you statistics that were proven to be false, but they conform to your viewpoints - would you choose to believe those statistics without researching them first?

Absolutely not.

Question 5

Last but not least - If I moved into your neighborhood and painted my house blue because it is my favorite color, and all other houses are red, should I have the right to demand you paint your houses blue because the color makes me happier than red?

No.

Thanks for your answers everyone. I edited Question 2 because when I said "I tell everyone around me" I was including the police, but I forget other's can't read my mind, ha-ha.

originally posted by: MentorsRiddle
Thanks for your answers everyone. I edited Question 2 because when I said "I tell everyone around me" I was including the police, but I forget other's can't read my mind, ha-ha.

You'd still be in the wrong for attacking. If you made arrangements to protect your family in case of an attack, then. you'd be fine.

I'm surprised how little response this thread has gotten.

originally posted by: Autorico
I'm surprised how little response this thread has gotten.

maybe the questions being asked are rather simplistic in critical-thinking skills, and thus boorish

I'll answer...

1) You should have the right to refuse service to anyone without fear of fines or the government (?) shutting down your business however, if business suffers for your decision then...

2) Yes, you would be wrong to strike first. I think it would be rational to be prepared though. If that means getting a gun yourself or keeping watch with alarms or what have you and as soon as he stepped foot inside your perimeter, then all bets are off.

3) You would be wrong as they are MY benefits.

4) I would always research them first. Whether they conform to my belief system/opinions or not is irrelevant as they are false.

5) You have the right to ask me whatever you want and I would have the right to laugh at you.

a reply to: jimmyx

Guess I'm just curious about other peoples opinions on the questions.

a reply to: MentorsRiddle

1. Not refuse service, but qualify your type of service as to not include negative messages.

2. You also have the choice to change neighborhoods, which is what I would do if even the police don't listen. But killing them to prevent their killing you sounds like mafia or biker gang thinking.

3. Yes. You have no right to take my retirement savings. It would be theft.

4. Stats can be and are often manipulated. Human nature being what it is though, if they backed up my viewpoint, I'd be less likely to question them. However the reason why I would then use the stats might be important, so that would have to be better defined.

5. Demand away all you like. The idea of your demand though is rather antagonistic, unless you are willing to supply the paint and the manpower, in which case I might let you do it if I think the house needs a coat of fresh paint, and I happen to like the colour you choose. If it doesn't need a new coat of paint, then you might still be welcome to do the work and pay for it, but I get to decide on the colour. However, someone needs to point out to you that you are describing a newcomer to a neighborhood, one who is trying to change things that people identify with and might be content with already. You might well be both perceived and treated as a s**t disturber.

Answer 1:
Don't refuse service, just bake them a cake with a picture of 2 guys going at it and pink frosting. Deliver it to the rally.

Answer 2:
Say nothing to anyone. Anonymously mail your neighbor a cyanide laced letter.

Answer 3:
Don't stop with taking their retirement money, fire the employee on the spot (after having their car towed from the parking lot).

Answer 4:
Of course, I believe everything some random guy says on the internet.

Answer 5:
Only if you pay for the paint.

originally posted by: MentorsRiddle

Question 1

Let's say that I was a homosexual baker and a customer came into my business and asked me to bake a cake for an anti-homosexual rally. Further more they wanted the cake to be decorated with anti-homosexual bible quotes, etc. Should I refuse them service?

If I did refuse them service should I be able to be punished by fines, or have my business shut down?

It's your business, you should do whatever you want, and have the right to do whatever you want without penalty. No way should any government agency shut your business down!

Question 2

My neighbor has openly admitted to me that they are saving money for a gun. They told me they plan to use this gun to kill me and my entire family. I tell everyone around me what is happening, even the police, but no one does anything to stop the person in a peaceful manner - am I in the wrong if I attack the person first before they can hurt me, thus protecting my entire family?

Yes. You could move away, which would be the responsible thing to do, to 'protect your family'.

Follow-up question, Did this neighbor just watch you murder the family that lived in the house so that you could buy it? In that case, the neighbor should be given guns asap, to make sure you don't murder his family also!

Question 3

I am the boss of a company. If I decided to take part of your retirement away form you and give it to employees of another company who don't really work for our company, only because they demand the benefits of our company - am I in the wrong?

Yes, you are a cowardly, #ty, boss. Are you getting a kickback from the new group? Why else would you do something like that?

Question 4

If I were to give you statistics that were proven to be false, but they conform to your viewpoints - would you choose to believe those statistics without researching them first?

I never believe statistics except when it comes to blackjack.

With the properly worded questions to the right audience, you can make statistics say whatever you want, and that's giving you the benefit of the doubt, in that you're reporting the true statistics to begin with.

Statistics i.e. polling results can all be proven false.

Question 5

Last but not least - If I moved into your neighborhood and painted my house blue because it is my favorite color, and all other houses are red, should I have the right to demand you paint your houses blue because the color makes me happier than red?

Yes, you should have the right to make all the demands you want. I have the right to ignore you and paint my house white if I want to. I also have the right to demand that you paint your house orange.

Interesting. Do we get to find out what the original stories were?

originally posted by: Autorico
a reply to: MentorsRiddle

These are my opinions:

Q1: Make the cake, take pics and report as a hate crime.

You're kidding right? Seriously?? Sometimes sarcasm doesn't translate properly, and I can't tell in this instance.

a reply to: MentorsRiddle

1. I would bake the cake. And it would be the tastiest, most beautifully decorated (albeit hateful) thing they've ever eaten. Good business sometimes means dealing with jerks. I don't think that the business should be shut down or fined, in your hypothetical scenario, it almost seems like the anti folks would be baiting the bakery owner.

2. Yes, you would be in the wrong.

3. This question seems really out there. I can't imagine a real scenario where this could even happen? Based on what's here, I'd say Yes, you would be in the wrong.

4. No. I try to always fact check most things, especially statistics.

5. No.

a reply to: Rhiannon

Ya I really didn't think that one through. I won't edit the post, but I'll simply redo my answer here.

Q1. Make the cake, be the better person.

Side note: I'm kinda torn on the refusing customer thing.

originally posted by: Autorico
a reply to: Rhiannon

Ya I really didn't think that one through. I won't edit the post, but I'll simply redo my answer here.

Q1. Make the cake, be the better person.

Side note: I'm kinda torn on the refusing customer thing.

I think you should absolutely refuse to if you want to, it's your business.

It was the, 'make it, take the money, then try and throw them in jail' part that I thought was a little unnecessary. lol

Seems like it would make you an accomplice, or profiting off of something that you perceive is a crime. To follow lordcomac's theme up there. It would mean that you must work for the government ; D

a reply to: Rhiannon

Ya, but where does it stop? Opening that door could lead to refusing customers based on race, which I don't agree with.