Is Reincarnation Opt to the Person, Dalai Lama suggests it,or can be controled by Politics?

a reply to: The angel of light

Your reply made me feel as though we just passed each other in the hallway. Judgmental much, or was I perhaps trying to reply to the first question in your title through my own perspective, not wishing to generalize or speak for anyone else?

It has been my life's work to help the suffering. I do not feel I am lacking in compassion for them, although I know each of us can always improve. As for those who inflict pain on others it is not for me to forgive them. Their actions however, make me very angry for all the suffering caused.

As for a mission that helps improve the world, I can only take care of my tiny little corner of it. I don't feel I've been given a mission at all. I had limited choices to make and very little power or influence along the way. Reincarnation is a concept I have trouble accepting as an evolving or progressive state. It makes little sense to me.

a reply to: The angel of light

Tibet was a reservoir of genuine Buddhist virtues : tolerance, respect to every human being and care for animals, those were the values that they shared before to be attacked. At that same time millions of Chinese were dying of starvation working as slaves for a State that was taken away their lands. 

So why was 90% of the population suffering under lama rule? Is it part of the religion to enslave, starve, torture, rape, and kill their own people?

Are you saying this did not happen before the Chinese went into Tibet?

You sound like someone who knows little about Tibet before Chinese rule

Does that make you a good person to ignore that, or does it make you a sheep, blindly believing in something that is not true.

a reply to: The angel of light

If a soul is pure energy, likely eternal in nature if it can continue to reincarnate, how many souls exist and how are new ones created? I ask because the Earths population has flutuated many times throughout history and today is the highest population (that we are aware of) of people ever to walk the planet, so souls would have to either be created or transfered from other planets in order to fit all the conscious that exist here today. That is meaning that animals besides humans do not have a soul perse. I have never heard a reincarnation or past life story that went from animal or insect to human.

originally posted by: FlyersFan


The Dalai Lama can come back or not as he wishes. Unlike most of the rest of us, he is off the reincarnation wheel. Anyone who has reached enlightenment can chose to come back and help others, or stay non-incarnated.

That is the trap thinking, feeling and believe this way.

We are all from the oneness. No one is greater, lessor, or even different it's just an illusion we are all choosing. There is nothing to be enlightened about, everything is already there and always was.

Separation is a choice, everyone can make it. We do not descend, ascend, learn more, or less, but rather experience just for the sake of the experience.

Dogma's are what hold us in a pattern of being, just think if there was no dogma's.

a reply to: Realtruth

Dear Realtruth,

I think the comment of Flyersfan is extremely interesting, anyway. Indeed in his condition of living Buddha the Dalai Lama is technically in terms of his own religion completely free of the cycle wheel of reincarnation, he can opt to come or not to come back and even possibly if he decides to come again to choose the place and person, why no?

Now, It is definitively unlikely that a very common human soul of an atheistic marxist functionary performing ruling functions in Tibet, in the name of a foreign Power, can constraint at all such a decision, he is not even aware of the ridicule of his arrogant statements. His attitude is far to be even intelligent.

Thanks both for your comments,

The Angel of Lightness

a reply to: The angel of light

So, you would rather ignore my posts, ignore the real Tibetan history, and carry on believing the fantasy stories told about Tibet.

You are ignoring the pain and the suffering these people went through under this so called peaceful religon.

By not answering me, you have proven to be one of hundreds of "free Tibet" people who are clueles

Well, I do care, and anyone who ignores this, are themselves hiding behind their fake peacefulness, and don't give a crap about how these people were treated, and are just in love with the Tibet that suits them

Sickening!

Here is a good article about the real tibet. I have quoted a small part of it below. It tells you the real history of Tibet and China in Tibet.

link

Will this change the "free Tibet" peoples mind? If you are really as loving and as peaceful as you say you are, then it should. If not, then you should be ashamed

For the rich lamas and secular lords, the Communist intervention was an unmitigated calamity. Most of them fled abroad, as did the Dalai Lama himself, who was assisted in his flight by the CIA. Some discovered to their horror that they would have to work for a living. Many, however, escaped that fate. Throughout the 1960s, the Tibetan exile community was secretly pocketing $1.7 million a year from the CIA, according to documents released by the State Department in 1998. Once this fact was publicized, the Dalai Lama’s organization itself issued a statement admitting that it had received millions of dollars from the CIA during the 1960s to send armed squads of exiles into Tibet to undermine the Maoist revolution. The Dalai Lama's annual payment from the CIA was $186,000. Indian intelligence also financed both him and other Tibetan exiles. He has refused to say whether he or his brothers worked for the CIA. The agency has also declined to commen

a reply to: aboutface

Dear aboutface,

Anger can be a very destructive emotion, but also if it is assumed with Compassion, can be the motivation to move a person into action and even to transform a relatively insecure personality in an example of determination and leadership.

Few emotions have the energy and strength in life as Anger to create the momentum to go into great achievements, it can have a tremendous inspirational force to boost change.

It was anger and disappointment what precisely moved Sidharta Gautama to abandon the relatively easy life of Prince in India to go into the path of deprivation and suffering of an ascetic, he was expressing his rejection to the cycle of life and death that seemed to be unavoidable, for the painful reality of disease, poverty, misery, and decided to find a path that may offer a better perspective of life for humanity.

That is the moment in which he was decided to dedicate his life to a search that only could lead him to enlightening , to achieve Buddhahood. If he would never have felt Anger but just pleasure and comfort for the life of the royal court probably he never should be who is in History.

I think that Anger explains the way in which figures that at first glance appear so fragile, like Mahatma Gandhi who was able to defy and defeat the British Empire or the Dalai Lama who is still being a conundrum and a great Challenge for the Chinese Empire.

Many People wrongly think that Buddhism is a path of conformity and acceptance of reality to don't do nothing about it, when in fact acceptance of the crude reality is just the first important step to decide what to do to change it, what strategy to develop to overcome it.

Thanks,

The Angel of Light,

originally posted by: The angel of light
a reply to: Realtruth

Dear Realtruth,

I think the comment of Flyersfan is extremely interesting, anyway.

Absolutely her comment was interesting, that is why I replied.

She picked out the exact way dogma's seem to hold individuals in a pattern, yet the Dali-lama went against all the grains. This is perhaps one of the most profound statements in a long time and the Dali-lama is showing a side that does not conform to a dogma, political institution, or religion.

Absolute comments like this from his mouth shake, and crumble the foundations to which religions are built upon.

It will be interesting to see the long term effects of his comments.

Peace.

a reply to: The angel of light

I think that reincarnation does exist and that it does so outside of what those in the material world would like to control. Politics mean nothing in the non-corporeal realm and it's hilarious that their gov't actually thinks they can control such a thing.

That being said, I'd like to think we have a choice in coming back BUT I don't know what the heck I was thinking in coming back to THIS place if I did have a choice. I feel that I probably fell asleep on the cosmic bus and was forced to get off at this last stop in the bad part of town. The locals are largely ignorant, greedy and violent.

I think it is a certainty that there will be trouble over the finding of the next Dalai Lama. I don't think there is any doubt that the Chinese government will recognize someone whom they can control completely as Dalai Lama. They will not recognize a Dalai Lama who is not under their control.

They hardly recognize the current Dalai Lama.

From a political point of view, it would be in the interest of the Chinese government to attempt to split off as many people as possible from the Dalai Lama's supporters in Tibet by confusing them as to the identity of the real Dalai Lama, in a situation where there were rival claimants, one endorsed by the Chinese government and one endorsed by the Tibetan government in exile.

In remote areas of Tibet, the Chinese government would have a considerable advantage by reason of a near monopoly of the news media, in garnering support for their candidate and in discrediting any other candidate. Many people, perhaps most, would go along to get along.

Of course, from the point of view of Tibetan Buddhism, it would be a disaster if the Chinese government were to succeed in taking control of the Gelugpa sect. It won't be permitted. The people who really control the sect won't allow it and there is nothing anyone can do about it, short of murdering all of the pre-eminent lineage holders.

His Holiness and his spiritual protectors will determine where he is reborn and there is nothing anyone can do about it.

I hope other people who visit this thread will understand the fakeness of the people who don't have the decentcy to change their minds about Tibet.

They would rather ignore the real history, ignore the suffering of these people, and continue to believe something that is not real.

The OP could not even bring himself to acknowledge that he is wrong. He simply ignores my posts.

Why does this annoy the hell out of me? Its because people like the OP come across as peaceful, even loving, but they don't acknowledge the real history of Tibet, which is a complete and utter insult to the men, women and children who suffered under this barbaric rule.

Its like they don't care about reality. All they care about is myth and the myth of Tibet.

Not one "free Tibet" groupie I have spoken to about the real history of Tibet has turned around and said "wow! I did not know that"

They just ignore the facts!

What does that tell you about these people? It tells me they are fakes, and not as loving and peaceful as they try to come across as.

I mean, how can they be when they ignore the suffering these people went through, and still support this man, and his barbaric croanies who fled to India, and never answered for their crimes against their own people.

What a messed up world we truely live in

From what I have learned about the teachings of Buddhism, on the subject of reincarnation, if a soul has mastered the teachings and is elevated enough, one can more or less choose their rebirth circumstances according to the Laws of Dharma.

One must also be able to navigate the death experience and forgo the temptations of the Peaceful and Wrathful deities, and successfully navigate to the Clear Light of Nirvana.

So as it has been outlined in The Tibetan Book of the Dead.

However, if one still has Karmic/Dharmic debts, one cannot freely choose their rebirth incarnation.

The case with Spiritual Masters and Bodhisattva who return to the world to help teach the techniques to liberate the soul from the endless life-death-birth cycle and attain Nirvana is different, they can - within limits - choose to reincarnate when and where they see fit to best achieve this purpose.

Now, can political agendas subversively use a premise of "reborn spiritual masters" as a political propaganda piece?

YES.

Look what they've done to the teachings of the ascended Christ.

Now just watch them use the same bait and switch with any spiritual master or teacher they so desire to influence and control the population is seeks to target. Sometimes this is done in good faith, but more often than not it's just another control measure.

It's a sick sad word.

Were my personal Dharma in order on this plane when I pass, it's doubtful I would forgo Nirvana or Heaven to return to this planet in the hopes....the hopes....that I would live long enough to make a change in the lives of those seeking spiritual salvation at the risk of being used as a political puppet by any regime.

I might change my mind about that last point later on when it comes time, but time will tell. Don't get me wrong, there is much beauty in this world and many wonderful people but the aggressive strain of ignorance is making me turn into something I don't aspire to become.

This planet has serious issues.

I don't blame His Holiness one iota for his declaration.
Phooey on those who fail to see the truth of this world for what it is.

End of story.

a reply to: GENERAL EYES

I don't blame His Holiness one iota for his declaration. 
Phooey on those who fail to see the truth of this world for what it is. 

At the end of the day, these lamas are picked
at random from a young age. There is nothing
magical or spiritual about it.

Look at the history of the dela lamas in Tibet.
You think they all lived long spiritual lives?

Some lamas were actually murdered by their
own priests . its totally a political thing.

a reply to: GENERAL EYES

I agree with your post. I obviously haven't reached enlightenment yet but I really hope I don't have to come back. And I don't have the generosity of a Bodhisattva to want to return to help others liberate. I hope this life here is my last. I'm tired.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

I agree with your post. I obviously haven't reached enlightenment yet but I really hope I don't have to come back. And I don't have the generosity of a Bodhisattva to want to return to help others liberate. I hope this life here is my last. I'm tired.

That is pretty much it for me also.

I'm tired, the ignorance is overwhelming. It's like that old saying " Don't fight with an idiot, because most likely people watching won't know the difference."

People have to want to change, and from what I have seen all my life many don't, and are very comfortable with their current state of being.

I guess I will just have to respect that choice, and enjoy life the best I can.

Some people remember before they were born clearly, some have vague memories, and some don't. I am in between clear and vague. I made a choice, sometimes there are times in my life I regret it, but other times I don't.

If my life helped even one person, then it was all worth it. Love is a powerful thing.

Karma and Nature are 99 problems, but reincarnation to fate, well that's a evil b**ch depending on her mood.

a reply to: FlyersFan

When I was a child, I always talked to my mother as if I had chosen to come to this world, and even told her at the age of four I picked her and my father to be my parents. She raised me in the Christian faith, and I saw many beautiful stories therein. While I still have layovers of Buddhist perceptions and understandings, I am now a Catholic and have put my life in the hands of the Great Creator of All Things. Should he find favor in my request to remain in Heaven after this life, I shall be very happy....but if it is decided I must return to help others, I shall do so sadly, but with joy in the knowledge that I might help in the aid of cessation of suffering once again. One of the great pains of this lifetime is being limited in how much I am able to assist, and I too, am very tired in many respects. Sleep is a comfort, but I feel some elements of darkness attacking me too vigilantly and powerfully far too often to continue this journey indefinitely. Like His Holiness, I too fear my tenure in interacting with this world is about to meet an end after this lifetime. I look forward to seeing you back Home. Hang in there. We can do this.

a reply to: Jay-morris

I hope other people who visit this thread will understand the fakeness of the people who don't have the decentcy to change their minds about Tibet.

I remember reading years ago about conditions in Tibet prior to the invasion by the Chinese.
Sure enough...

en.wikipedia.org...

Accusations of the existence of a variety of unfree labour have been a recurrent theme, covering periods both before and after the Chinese takeover. Supporters of the Chinese position highlight statements by the government of the People's Republic of China (PRC) that, prior to 1959, 95% of Tibetans lived in 'feudal serfdom',[2] and cite cases of abuse and cruelty in the traditional Tibetan system.[3] Human rights organizations and supporters of the Free Tibet movement have highlighted reports of Communist-run forced labour camps in the region[4] and point out the efforts made by the Tibetan authorities to modernise the country and improve conditions in Tibet in the first half of the 20th Century.

In the academic debate of the 'Serfdom in Tibet' controversy, the nature of serfdom and its applicability to Eastern societies is contested amongst academics. Tibetologist Melvyn Goldstein wrote in 1971 that "Tibet was characterized by a form of institutionalized inequality that can be called pervasive serfdom".[5] However many academics have questioned the applicability of the concept to Tibet, a recent example being Heidi Fjeld who in 2003 argued that feudalism and the use of the term 'serf' was misleading in relation to the social system of Tibet and instead described it as "a caste-like social hierarchy".[6]

Lets mince words...not serfdom as such but caste-like social hierarchy. PC speak for unpaid labour.
Or

www.michaelparenti.org...

A reading of Tibet’s history suggests a somewhat different picture. “Religious conflict was commonplace in old Tibet,” writes one western Buddhist practitioner. “History belies the Shangri-La image of Tibetan lamas and their followers living together in mutual tolerance and nonviolent goodwill. Indeed, the situation was quite different. Old Tibet was much more like Europe during the religious wars of the Counterreformation.” 5 In the thirteenth century, Emperor Kublai Khan created the first Grand Lama, who was to preside over all the other lamas as might a pope over his bishops. Several centuries later, the Emperor of China sent an army into Tibet to support the Grand Lama, an ambitious 25-year-old man, who then gave himself the title of Dalai (Ocean) Lama, ruler of all Tibet.

His two previous lama “incarnations” were then retroactively recognized as his predecessors, thereby transforming the 1st Dalai Lama into the 3rd Dalai Lama. This 1st (or 3rd) Dalai Lama seized monasteries that did not belong to his sect, and is believed to have destroyed Buddhist writings that conflicted with his claim to divinity. The Dalai Lama who succeeded him pursued a sybaritic life, enjoying many mistresses, partying with friends, and acting in other ways deemed unfitting for an incarnate deity. For these transgressions he was murdered by his priests. Within 170 years, despite their recognized divine status, five Dalai Lamas were killed by their high priests or other courtiers. 6

For hundreds of years competing Tibetan Buddhist sects engaged in bitterly violent clashes and summary executions. In 1660, the 5th Dalai Lama was faced with a rebellion in Tsang province, the stronghold of the rival Kagyu sect with its high lama known as the Karmapa. The 5th Dalai Lama called for harsh retribution against the rebels, directing the Mongol army to obliterate the male and female lines, and the offspring too “like eggs smashed against rocks…. In short, annihilate any traces of them, even their names.” 7

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

Thank you so much for the reply.

What really annoys me is the fact that people like the people on this thread refuse to believe, or just simply ignore what Tibet was like under lama rule

If these people are as peaceful as they say they are, how can they justify ignoring the real history of Tibet?

Its a complete insult to the Tibetan people. The men, women and children who suffered under this lama rule.

To me, this just shows they really don't give a crap about Tibet, and are only in love with the Tibet the western movies and media poetry.

Its really sad, it really is