NEW UK DNA group map: 40% French 30% German 11% Danes 9% Belgian; like AD60

New study reveals genetic map of UK DNA groups. This correlates to personal experience IMO. Having lived in Scotland, I always believed those of N. Ireland as genetically similar and in appearance to Southern Scotland, this ties with known immigration. Additionally I recognise visual differences in appearance of those from Devon, Cornwall, North East England, Wales etc whilst either living there or visiting.

I have always felt more European than 'celtic' and most of my friends are of Mediterranean, German or French origin, we seem to gel easier and I find other Europeans more likely to converse on more cerebral topic and generally more rational than the binge drinking masses.

www.bbc.co.uk...

A DNA study of Britons has shown that genetically there is not a unique Celtic group of people in the UK.

According to the data, those of Celtic ancestry in Scotland and Cornwall are more similar to the English than they are to other Celtic groups.

The study also describes distinct genetic differences across the UK, which reflect regional identities.

And it shows that the invading Anglo Saxons did not wipe out the Britons of 1,500 years ago, but mixed with them.

Published in the Journal Nature, the findings emerge from a detailed DNA analysis of 2,000 mostly middle-aged Caucasian people living across the UK.

According to Prof Peter Donnelly who co-led the study, the results show that although there is not a single Celtic group, there is a genetic basis for regional identities in the UK.

"Many of the genetic clusters we see in the west and north are similar to the tribal groupings and kingdoms around, and just after, the time of the Saxon invasion, suggesting these kingdoms maintained a regional identity for many years," he told BBC News.

Prof Donnelly and his colleagues compared genetic patterns now with the map of Britain in about AD 600, after the Anglo Saxons had arrived from what is now southern Denmark and Northern Germany. By then, they occupied much of central and southern England.

"We see striking similarities between the genetic patterns we see now and some of these regional identities and kingdoms we see in AD 60, and we think some of that may well be remnants of the groupings that existed then," he explained.

www.theguardian.com...

Genetic study reveals 30% of white British DNA has German ancestry
Analysis over 20 years reveals heavy Anglo-Saxon influence, with French and Danish DNA coming from earlier migrations than the Normans or Vikings.

The Romans, Vikings and Normans may have ruled or invaded the British for hundreds of years, but they left barely a trace on our DNA, the first detailed study of the genetics of British people has revealed.

The analysis shows that the Anglo-Saxons were the only conquering force, around 400-500 AD, to substantially alter the country’s genetic makeup, with most white British people now owing almost 30% of their DNA to the ancestors of modern-day Germans.

People living in southern and central England today typically share about 40% of their DNA with the French, 11% with the Danes and 9% with the Belgians, the study of more than 2,000 people found. The French contribution was not linked to the Norman invasion of 1066, however, but a previously unknown wave of migration to Britain some time after then end of the last Ice Age nearly 10,000 years ago.

www.nature.com...

Fine-scale genetic variation between human populations is interesting as a signature of historical demographic events and because of its potential for confounding disease studies. We use haplotype-based statistical methods to analyse genome-wide single nucleotide polymorphism (SNP) data from a carefully chosen geographically diverse sample of 2,039 individuals from the United Kingdom. This reveals a rich and detailed pattern of genetic differentiation with remarkable concordance between genetic clusters and geography. The regional genetic differentiation and differing patterns of shared ancestry with 6,209 individuals from across Europe carry clear signals of historical demographic events. We estimate the genetic contribution to southeastern England from Anglo-Saxon migrations to be under half, and identify the regions not carrying genetic material from these migrations. We suggest significant pre-Roman but post-Mesolithic movement into southeastern England from continental Europe, and show that in non-Saxon parts of the United Kingdom, there exist genetically differentiated subgroups rather than a general ‘Celtic’ population.

Tele graph



www.theguardian.com...

Timeline
9600 BC Last Ice Age ends and land is colonised by hunter-gatherers

2500 BC Influx of settlers from east and western coastal routes

54 BC Julius Caesar invades Britain and defeats the British tribal chief Cassivellaunus

410 AD Collapse of Roman rule in Britain, which descends into the chaos of a failed state

400-500 AD Large influx of Angles and Saxons

600-700 AD Anglo-Saxon rule throughout much of Britain – Welsh kingdoms successfully resist

865 AD Large-scale invasion by Danish Vikings

1066 AD Norman invasion

a reply to: theabsolutetruth

Interesting - after all, Celtic is really a misnomer in so many ways and was only applied to the "Celtic Fringe" in more modern times iirc... and in it's earliest/proto sense it's just a collection of technologies.

I often think that the "Celts" of these isles are really Britons, Pretani, Albanachs etc etc.

Much prettier terms in my ears, and they have some links to the more distant past too.

a reply to: skalla

It is totally a misnomer and used too often as a blasé excuse for voting /racism etc.

There are other reports that most the UK's 'celts' are from the same group of Spanish fishermen.

Interesting Brits are not real Brits after all..

a reply to: dollukka

Yes, though there really are perceivable variations in appearance / character and accent in each area that differentiation is obvious.

a reply to: dollukka

We're just a nation of tribes, invaders and settlers. All will be assimilated sooner or later.

Tea and Biscuits get them all in the end.

And if they don't, the weather will drive them off.

a reply to: theabsolutetruth

Very interesting. I enjoy reading studies of haplogroups and tend to fascinated by those in our own back yard - Northern Europe.

Additionally I recognise visual differences in appearance of those from Devon, Cornwall, North East England, Wales etc whilst either living there or visiting.

You made me smile at that comment because I've often thought the same thing and it's the first time I've seen someone else notice it too.

My family heritage is Irish and Scottish on both sides. English for last three generations, Irish all the way back before and Scots who moved to Ireland in the 17th/18th centuries.

You know about those DNA swab tests? I've been umming and ahhing about paying for one for the past couple of years and the prices keep rising with every hesitation. It's intriguing to see the paths of of our ancestors and the results would instantly be passed through relatives and then down through the next generations.

The mischief element would be one or two of my racist relatives having genetic evidence that they're only generations removed from Africa, Middle East and/or Asia.

originally posted by: skalla
a reply to: dollukka

Tea and Biscuits get them all in the end.

According to those maps I'm Saxon, were the Saxons known for Tea and Biscuits? because I'm a full blown Digestive dunker

a reply to: Kandinsky

On the "visual differences" thing, an old associate of mine used to ramble on about "v-headed" viking descendents at times... not very scientific, but there sure is a "type" of british man with a slightly "V" shaped bas relief on the forehead.

Me and a few friends have this - it's not something i've thought about much, but i thought i'd share the anecdote here.


I also once studied Gaelic with a lady from Lewis who bore a startling resemblance to an Aunt of mine (who was only one generation removed from Lewis herself). We were doing some shopping in Edinburgh when she dropped everything and ran to greet a woman she saw from behind whom she thought was an old friend from Lewis. She recognised her for her "Lewis Walk".

Funny thing is, it was a total stranger when she turned around, but she was indeed from Lewis, and they shared a very odd conversation about how folk from there walk.

Sadly i'm too diluted a Gael to walk all proper, like

a reply to: dollukka

The rational Brits among us were never in any doubt that we were mongrels who took the best bits of whatever we found and tried to make them work.

a reply to: theabsolutetruth

Also the further north you go in the UK the larger on average the people brain size is.
North west is of probably very strong Danish origin mixed of course with the native lady's and that is born out historically with the isle of man being settled by Vikings as was the north west and north east but of course they did not wipe the local people out they married them, those living in the south are often like another people entirely but then that is probably only clan and family differentiation.

a reply to: skalla

Yeah that 'v-headed' feature is something that high-browed/forehead white folk often seem to have. Maybe there's some correlation with the average hip size of white adult women in Northern Europe? Like yourself, it's not something I've thought about until you mentioned it and the idea could be errant BS : )

Years back, I posted a thread about Cheddar Man and how his DNA was compared to samples from males in the immediate area. lo and behold, a guy turned out to be a direct descendent of the body in the cave. With a squinty eye, they looked similar enough to be related, but that was going off one of those reconstructions and a photo of the match. Resemblance or not, it was thousands of years and a male descendent still lived within 10 miles or so.

a reply to: Kandinsky

I would love to do one of those DNA tests but so far have found other ways of spending £100+ whenever I consider it.

My blood type is A+ which isn't typical for my supposed Scottish /Irish /Spanish /other ancestry and it is impossible with my supposed both type O 'parents' so I would love to have the full DNA analysis done, including parentage.

Most of my supposed family have dark hair and some darkish skin, it tans to teak colour, my own skin is light olive toned, which is unusual, for most of the UK being red / orange toned. Chances are the Spanish contingent had origins towards the Med possibly further but I doubt they would like that or even agree to it.

a reply to: skalla

I have that V shape hairline and have always felt rather Viking / Scandinavian, I feel rather akin to Scandinavia /Iceland, always have since a child.

I have blond highlights in my hair too and not a huge forehead but I do recognise that mine is higher than average, most people's hair starts not far above their eyebrows. I have a high eyebrow gap and high forehead, perhaps it's the Scandi connection.

a reply to: LABTECH767

Interesting, any more information on the brain size thing?

a reply to: theabsolutetruth

I think I'm O-Neg from the days of donating blood - can't find the card although it's definitely O something.

There was a TV show about English white supremacists with maybe five varieties and classes of them. One was an aristocrat and one was a Cockney comedian affiliated with the NF. The comedian, all curly black hair and 'swarthy,' had an African ancestor from the mid-19th century lol. The aristocrat faired worse. She had Romany gypsy and Berber Arab in her genetics and was not pleased at all.

Both of them queried science and invoked special pleading to hold on to their notions of being 'pure' white.

There's a great chance your own lineage includes Mediterranean ancestry and iirc A-blood groups tend to come from the Med basin with the mixture of North African, Latin and Middle-Eastern families. Comedians, aristocrats and you and me will all be examples of human migration and there's no avoiding it. It's cool imho and the more exotic the lineage the better

a reply to: theabsolutetruth

The V shape in mean is not "The Witches/Widow's Peak" hair-line (i forget the usual term for it), rather a mark formed by a boney ridge over the whole forehead - not very pronounced at all, but quite noticeable once pointed out.

a reply to: skalla

Mine is more pointed hairline than bony pointed head, thankfully!

a reply to: theabsolutetruth

I disguise mine by wearing a bridle and pretending to be a tame urban unicorn. Drives the laydeez nuts.

a reply to: Kandinsky

If I was to guess my heritage it would be Scandi / Med, my surname is linked to a Roman general that ruled an area of Spain and there is definite fair but olive skin and mixed blonde /dark/ reddish hair.

I think a mixture is a good thing as long as it works, widening the gene pool etc.