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Neil DeGrasse Tyson: ET and DNA

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posted on Mar, 29 2015 @ 04:57 AM
link   

originally posted by: TrueMessiah
a reply to: Harte

Amazing how you used the same link I posted earlier which told you beforehand where a majority of abductions happen.


The link indicates no such thing. It doesn't say anything at all about where most cases happen, just that (curiously) most cases require the subject to be isolated. Wonder why that would be.


The only thing your quote is saying is that out of all cities (NOT ALL CASES), NY and LA have the most abductions.

So now you claim I said "all cases?"



Your second link is only stating that abductions happen routinely in cities opposed to rural areas (where the majority rules). It gives no indication of how much of a percentage is abducted in cities compared to rural areas. But to be honest, it doesn't need to. The fact that Bud Hopkins confirmed it being a myth that abductions were only happening in desolate areas lends credence to the fact that these desolate areas are where most do happen.

No such credence is lent by anything Hopkins said.

I provided the source for my claim. I stated the article is not available in full. I also stated I still have the magazine, after 23 years.

It used to be that people had to work to find any information on anything. I subscribed to Omni when it was a science magazine. Later it went full-blown Woo-F-O so I dropped the subscription.

That article (I'm almost certain) was where the stat came from. But, given that it's been 23 years, the stat itself might have changed.

Obviously (at least, to me) the advent of the internet would have itself changed the number (and quality) of such reports.

Regardless, how to explain the obviously large number of abductions that occur in large cities - people taken from high rises - without witnesses?

Are we actually going to go with the "aliens wiped everyone's memories" like the previously mentioned hoax case? Is this Will Smith and Tommy Lee Jones territory?

I hope everyone realizes that, if we posit that inane claim, then there is simply no reason whatsoever to even try to examine anything at all for the rest of our lives, since everything could have been "wiped" from our memories.


Harte




posted on Mar, 29 2015 @ 12:08 PM
link   

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: TrueMessiah
a reply to: Harte

Amazing how you used the same link I posted earlier which told you beforehand where a majority of abductions happen.


The link indicates no such thing. It doesn't say anything at all about where most cases happen, just that (curiously) most cases require the subject to be isolated. Wonder why that would be.


And where is this "isolation"? I'll let the link explain:

Encounters generally are reported as happening "away from people" or "in the middle of nowhere......when an individual or group of individuals is not present around other people "


That is in sharp contrast to this claim you made earlier, in fact it totally destroys that previous claim you made earlier:


originally posted by: Harte
But I wonder if you realize that most abductions have occurred in large cities, and most of those in high rise apartments in New York City, where there are always people around to see a UFO floating outside a window while the abductee is taken.



That's the claim that started this whole discussion.



So now you claim I said "all cases?"


Scdfa told you that claim was nonsense then you posted what cities (LA and NY) have the most abductions to support your stance of "the most abductions have occurred in large cities" (see above), which is totally unsupported.




No such credence is lent by anything Hopkins said.


Regardless, how to explain the obviously large number of abductions that occur in large cities - people taken from high rises - without witnesses?

Are we actually going to go with the "aliens wiped everyone's memories" like the previously mentioned hoax case? Is this Will Smith and Tommy Lee Jones territory?

I hope everyone realizes that, if we posit that inane claim, then there is simply no reason whatsoever to even try to examine anything at all for the rest of our lives, since everything could have been "wiped" from our memories.



It may not lend credence but we don't have much to go on other than what's generally reported. It's possible these abductees have attempted to report their experiences but instead, it gets swept under the rug. Like I told Zeta earlier, these cases are more than likely ignored so it won't cause mass panic among heavily populated areas. With the public thinking they only happen in rural areas, statistics stay confined and there is less hysteria.



posted on Mar, 29 2015 @ 12:32 PM
link   

originally posted by: TrueMessiah

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: TrueMessiah
a reply to: Harte

Amazing how you used the same link I posted earlier which told you beforehand where a majority of abductions happen.


The link indicates no such thing. It doesn't say anything at all about where most cases happen, just that (curiously) most cases require the subject to be isolated. Wonder why that would be.


And where is this "isolation"? I'll let the link explain:

Encounters generally are reported as happening "away from people" or "in the middle of nowhere......when an individual or group of individuals is not present around other people "

So, alone in a high-rise bedroom doesn;'t count as "isolated" to you?

Where in your quote is the part about where "most" abductions occur?


originally posted by: TrueMessiahThat is in sharp contrast to this claim you made earlier, in fact it totally destroys that previous claim you made earlier:


originally posted by: Harte
But I wonder if you realize that most abductions have occurred in large cities, and most of those in high rise apartments in New York City, where there are always people around to see a UFO floating outside a window while the abductee is taken.



That's the claim that started this whole discussion.

What part of your quote do you see as destroying what I said? It does nothing of the sort.


originally posted by: TrueMessiah


So now you claim I said "all cases?"


Scdfa told you that claim was nonsense then you posted what cities (LA and NY) have the most abductions to support your stance of "the most abductions have occurred in large cities" (see above), which is totally unsupported.

The Omni article I linked supported it in 1993.

Like I said, that's been quite a while. The stats today might be different. Care to show me some?

Harte



posted on Mar, 29 2015 @ 01:04 PM
link   
a reply to: Harte

The stats today might be different. Care to show me some?

That's not fair because statistics showing useful information would start a mass panic.



posted on Mar, 29 2015 @ 02:44 PM
link   

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: TrueMessiah

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: TrueMessiah
a reply to: Harte

Amazing how you used the same link I posted earlier which told you beforehand where a majority of abductions happen.


The link indicates no such thing. It doesn't say anything at all about where most cases happen, just that (curiously) most cases require the subject to be isolated. Wonder why that would be.


And where is this "isolation"? I'll let the link explain:

Encounters generally are reported as happening "away from people" or "in the middle of nowhere......when an individual or group of individuals is not present around other people "

So, alone in a high-rise bedroom doesn;'t count as "isolated" to you?

Where in your quote is the part about where "most" abductions occur?


originally posted by: TrueMessiahThat is in sharp contrast to this claim you made earlier, in fact it totally destroys that previous claim you made earlier:


originally posted by: Harte
But I wonder if you realize that most abductions have occurred in large cities, and most of those in high rise apartments in New York City, where there are always people around to see a UFO floating outside a window while the abductee is taken.



That's the claim that started this whole discussion.

What part of your quote do you see as destroying what I said? It does nothing of the sort.


So I see you're going to stick by that claim that "most abductions happen in cities where there are always people around" with no evidence to back it up whatsoever? Cool




Like I said, that's been quite a while. The stats today might be different. Care to show me some?


Only you and Zeta are worried about location, like I told him, it doesn't matter to me.


originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
That's not fair because statistics showing useful information would start a mass panic.



Now you're catching on.

Too bad the thought of you viewing it as useful is not shared by either the abductees or where these reports were made, if they were even reported.



posted on Mar, 29 2015 @ 03:18 PM
link   
a reply to: TrueMessiah


Only you and Zeta are worried about location, like I told him, it doesn't matter to me.

I am sure most skeptics don't worry about location and other details either since, like Tyson, they reject the notion of abductions. Unfortunately there doesn't seem like any real chance of getting any real information from anywhere so why bother. If all these people are really getting abducted and the people that believe this don't want to do anything about it except talk about it on the internet, then I guess it doesn't really matter anyway.


Too bad the thought of you viewing it as useful is not shared by either the abductees or where these reports were made, if they were even reported.

right. why bother and start a mass panic.
edit on 29-3-2015 by ZetaRediculian because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 29 2015 @ 03:42 PM
link   

originally posted by: TrueMessiah
Only you and Zeta are worried about location, like I told him, it doesn't matter to me.


originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
That's not fair because statistics showing useful information would start a mass panic.



Now you're catching on.

Too bad the thought of you viewing it as useful is not shared by either the abductees or where these reports were made, if they were even reported.



Well they aren't the only Ones who think data like location is important. And in the instance of an "alien abduction" location, very precise location is critical data...data that absolutely should not be omitted...ever!

And that's just from a data analysis point of view...the reality here is that when data like that is left out, it begins to invalidate the while dataset...my old prof would prolly go on about "incomplete data"; and he'd be right.

Logically, there should be fewer abductions in highly populated areas, but, we don't have that data...and unfortunately, speculation doesn't work.



posted on Mar, 29 2015 @ 04:05 PM
link   

originally posted by: tanka418

originally posted by: TrueMessiah
Only you and Zeta are worried about location, like I told him, it doesn't matter to me.


originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
That's not fair because statistics showing useful information would start a mass panic.



Now you're catching on.

Too bad the thought of you viewing it as useful is not shared by either the abductees or where these reports were made, if they were even reported.



Well they aren't the only Ones who think data like location is important. And in the instance of an "alien abduction" location, very precise location is critical data...data that absolutely should not be omitted...ever!

And that's just from a data analysis point of view...the reality here is that when data like that is left out, it begins to invalidate the while dataset...my old prof would prolly go on about "incomplete data"; and he'd be right.

Logically, there should be fewer abductions in highly populated areas, but, we don't have that data...and unfortunately, speculation doesn't work.




Well I gave a possible reason for omission of data, you can take it or leave it.
In any event, aside from those omissions, I don't think it would be logical to dismiss the hundreds, possibly thousands of reports that have been made. I can't say "well if there are no reports of abductions in heavily populated areas cataloged, then there are NO reports at all".



posted on Mar, 29 2015 @ 06:15 PM
link   

originally posted by: TrueMessiah

originally posted by: tanka418

originally posted by: TrueMessiah
Only you and Zeta are worried about location, like I told him, it doesn't matter to me.


originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
That's not fair because statistics showing useful information would start a mass panic.



Now you're catching on.

Too bad the thought of you viewing it as useful is not shared by either the abductees or where these reports were made, if they were even reported.



Well they aren't the only Ones who think data like location is important. And in the instance of an "alien abduction" location, very precise location is critical data...data that absolutely should not be omitted...ever!

And that's just from a data analysis point of view...the reality here is that when data like that is left out, it begins to invalidate the while dataset...my old prof would prolly go on about "incomplete data"; and he'd be right.

Logically, there should be fewer abductions in highly populated areas, but, we don't have that data...and unfortunately, speculation doesn't work.




Well I gave a possible reason for omission of data, you can take it or leave it.
In any event, aside from those omissions, I don't think it would be logical to dismiss the hundreds, possibly thousands of reports that have been made. I can't say "well if there are no reports of abductions in heavily populated areas cataloged, then there are NO reports at all".


The problem is that while One can't dismiss those reports; One can't use them in any of the analysis process, they thus become useless/superfluous data...and can only serve to muddy the whole. They tend to detract from the logical process as a whole.



posted on Mar, 29 2015 @ 06:51 PM
link   

originally posted by: tanka418

originally posted by: TrueMessiah

originally posted by: tanka418

originally posted by: TrueMessiah
Only you and Zeta are worried about location, like I told him, it doesn't matter to me.


originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
That's not fair because statistics showing useful information would start a mass panic.



Now you're catching on.

Too bad the thought of you viewing it as useful is not shared by either the abductees or where these reports were made, if they were even reported.



Well they aren't the only Ones who think data like location is important. And in the instance of an "alien abduction" location, very precise location is critical data...data that absolutely should not be omitted...ever!

And that's just from a data analysis point of view...the reality here is that when data like that is left out, it begins to invalidate the while dataset...my old prof would prolly go on about "incomplete data"; and he'd be right.

Logically, there should be fewer abductions in highly populated areas, but, we don't have that data...and unfortunately, speculation doesn't work.




Well I gave a possible reason for omission of data, you can take it or leave it.
In any event, aside from those omissions, I don't think it would be logical to dismiss the hundreds, possibly thousands of reports that have been made. I can't say "well if there are no reports of abductions in heavily populated areas cataloged, then there are NO reports at all".


The problem is that while One can't dismiss those reports; One can't use them in any of the analysis process, they thus become useless/superfluous data...and can only serve to muddy the whole. They tend to detract from the logical process as a whole.



Ok so the overall data may be somewhat screwed (I gave a plausible reason as to why).....but at the end of the day, what are you going to say? In regards to the abductions done in rural areas, did they, or did they not happen?



posted on Mar, 29 2015 @ 07:18 PM
link   
One thing to be weary of here is information which Exposes The Covert Counter - Intelligence Program Against Extraterrestrial Contactees otherwise known as Galactic Cointelpro.


Debunking techniques that could be used to discredit contactees as reliable witnesses and make their claims appear ridiculous included:

• making fun of contactee claims
• media exaggeration of reported events
• dismissal of all physical evidence by critics
• repeatedly citing prominent authority figures who stressed delusion and fraud
• emphasizing the lack of scientific interest in contactee reports

The Durant Report created the necessary legal justification to debunk evidence provided by contactees regardless of the merits of their claims.

This is evidenced by the way in which the FBI and other intelligence agencies privately interacted with contactees, and then made public statements or leaked information to the media in ways that questioned the integrity of contactees.


With things like this going on, it's easy to see why the precious data some seek is nonexistent and/or skewed.



posted on Mar, 29 2015 @ 08:17 PM
link   

originally posted by: TrueMessiah

originally posted by: tanka418

originally posted by: TrueMessiah

originally posted by: tanka418

originally posted by: TrueMessiah
Only you and Zeta are worried about location, like I told him, it doesn't matter to me.


originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
That's not fair because statistics showing useful information would start a mass panic.



Now you're catching on.

Too bad the thought of you viewing it as useful is not shared by either the abductees or where these reports were made, if they were even reported.



Well they aren't the only Ones who think data like location is important. And in the instance of an "alien abduction" location, very precise location is critical data...data that absolutely should not be omitted...ever!

And that's just from a data analysis point of view...the reality here is that when data like that is left out, it begins to invalidate the while dataset...my old prof would prolly go on about "incomplete data"; and he'd be right.

Logically, there should be fewer abductions in highly populated areas, but, we don't have that data...and unfortunately, speculation doesn't work.




Well I gave a possible reason for omission of data, you can take it or leave it.
In any event, aside from those omissions, I don't think it would be logical to dismiss the hundreds, possibly thousands of reports that have been made. I can't say "well if there are no reports of abductions in heavily populated areas cataloged, then there are NO reports at all".


The problem is that while One can't dismiss those reports; One can't use them in any of the analysis process, they thus become useless/superfluous data...and can only serve to muddy the whole. They tend to detract from the logical process as a whole.



Ok so the overall data may be somewhat screwed (I gave a plausible reason as to why).....but at the end of the day, what are you going to say? In regards to the abductions done in rural areas, did they, or did they not happen?


I'm not quite sure you understand what I'm saying; only the data from the Roper poll is suspect. Other data will still stand or fall on its own merit, independently from Roper.

I am all too well acquainted with the possible and probable events that can occur in a real abduction event, indeed, a series of events spanning 40 years. I don't need polls to begin to understand what is happening, only experience and logic.



posted on Mar, 29 2015 @ 08:20 PM
link   

originally posted by: TrueMessiah
One thing to be weary of here is information which Exposes The Covert Counter - Intelligence Program Against Extraterrestrial Contactees otherwise known as Galactic Cointelpro.


Debunking techniques that could be used to discredit contactees as reliable witnesses and make their claims appear ridiculous included:

• making fun of contactee claims
• media exaggeration of reported events
• dismissal of all physical evidence by critics
• repeatedly citing prominent authority figures who stressed delusion and fraud
• emphasizing the lack of scientific interest in contactee reports

The Durant Report created the necessary legal justification to debunk evidence provided by contactees regardless of the merits of their claims.

This is evidenced by the way in which the FBI and other intelligence agencies privately interacted with contactees, and then made public statements or leaked information to the media in ways that questioned the integrity of contactees.


With things like this going on, it's easy to see why the precious data some seek is nonexistent and/or skewed.


I think of it as; "cover-up by obfuscation". The whole thing is a confused mess that is most difficult to navigate.



posted on Mar, 29 2015 @ 11:22 PM
link   
a reply to: Harte





originally posted by: Harte
But I wonder if you realize that most abductions have occurred in large cities, and most of those in high rise apartments in New York City


This is a direct quote of Harte, which I declared to be pure nonsense. And that's exactly what it is, I can't see how he is still arguing to support this absurd statement.

Folks, It is one simple sentence, easy to examine:

First,
Harte says, "most abductions have occurred in large cities." Most, he says. The definition of the word most, according to the Merriam-Webster dictionary, is "almost all : the majority of".

Most means at least 51%. At LEAST 51%, it could mean any percentage from 51% to 99%.

Harte says most abductions have occurred in large cities, which means at least 51% of all abductions have occurred in large cities, according to Harte.

That statement alone is without evidence, and Harte was unable to support it, but that is only half his statement. I find the other half to be more absurd.

Harte says, "most abductions have occurred in large cities, and most of those in high rise apartments in New York City."

Again, most means, "the majority of". That means Harte is saying that at least 26% of all abductions are from high rise apartment buildings in New York City.

At LEAST 26%. Most of 51% is anywhere from 26% to 50%.

And folks, that is what I call pure nonsense. There is no evidence that suggests at least 26% of all alien abductions are from high rise apartments in New York City. Absolutely none.

Harte is unable to defend that ridiculous claim. At this point, he is more likely to argue that he didn't mean to use the word "most", but I won't put words in his mouth. I will, however, ask him to support the words that he does use.
edit on 29-3-2015 by Scdfa because: (no reason given)

edit on 29-3-2015 by Scdfa because: (no reason given)

edit on 29-3-2015 by Scdfa because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 29 2015 @ 11:50 PM
link   
a reply to: undo
Very insightful video and he touched on a few points that i've always thought about such as the transference of life from 1 planet to the next. But he's wrong about 1 thing, aliens or whatever you wanna call them are definitely interested in us because we have the potential to become a threat not only to our planet but to other planets because of our quest for power instead of knowledge. Im going to be looking up Mr. Tysons' work tho good stuff



posted on Mar, 29 2015 @ 11:59 PM
link   
a reply to: [post=191
The thing about information is that it can never fully be destroyed. You'll be surprised how much information is out there in the deep regions of the internet. The government cant get rid of every piece of information thats put on the internet



posted on Mar, 30 2015 @ 01:53 AM
link   
%a reply to: Scdfa

Most means at least 51%. At LEAST 51%, it could mean any percentage from 51% to 99%.

lets say 3% of the abductions occur in the rural areas and 1% occur in the city. if 300 people live a rural area then that would be 9 abductions. if 1000 people live in the city then that would be 10 abductions. so that would mean 52.63157894736842% of all abductions occur in the city. Which is most.



posted on Mar, 30 2015 @ 04:34 AM
link   

originally posted by: TrueMessiah

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: TrueMessiah

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: TrueMessiah
a reply to: Harte

Amazing how you used the same link I posted earlier which told you beforehand where a majority of abductions happen.


The link indicates no such thing. It doesn't say anything at all about where most cases happen, just that (curiously) most cases require the subject to be isolated. Wonder why that would be.


And where is this "isolation"? I'll let the link explain:

Encounters generally are reported as happening "away from people" or "in the middle of nowhere......when an individual or group of individuals is not present around other people "

So, alone in a high-rise bedroom doesn;'t count as "isolated" to you?

Where in your quote is the part about where "most" abductions occur?


originally posted by: TrueMessiahThat is in sharp contrast to this claim you made earlier, in fact it totally destroys that previous claim you made earlier:


originally posted by: Harte
But I wonder if you realize that most abductions have occurred in large cities, and most of those in high rise apartments in New York City, where there are always people around to see a UFO floating outside a window while the abductee is taken.



That's the claim that started this whole discussion.

What part of your quote do you see as destroying what I said? It does nothing of the sort.


So I see you're going to stick by that claim that "most abductions happen in cities where there are always people around" with no evidence to back it up whatsoever? Cool

I told you where I read it, at least.

You, on the other hand, appear to have read something at the referenced link that's not even there.



originally posted by: TrueMessiah

Like I said, that's been quite a while. The stats today might be different. Care to show me some?


Only you and Zeta are worried about location, like I told him, it doesn't matter to me.

The only way it matters to me is the unbelievable absence of witnesses to these high-rise abductions.

That fact has meaning. What it means is that the abductions didn't occur. At least, not physically.

Harte



posted on Mar, 30 2015 @ 04:40 AM
link   

originally posted by: Scdfa
a reply to: Harte





originally posted by: Harte
But I wonder if you realize that most abductions have occurred in large cities, and most of those in high rise apartments in New York City


This is a direct quote of Harte, which I declared to be pure nonsense. And that's exactly what it is, I can't see how he is still arguing to support this absurd statement.

Folks, It is one simple sentence, easy to examine:

First,
Harte says, "most abductions have occurred in large cities." Most, he says. The definition of the word most, according to the Merriam-Webster dictionary, is "almost all : the majority of".

Most means at least 51%. At LEAST 51%, it could mean any percentage from 51% to 99%.

Harte says most abductions have occurred in large cities, which means at least 51% of all abductions have occurred in large cities, according to Harte.

That statement alone is without evidence, and Harte was unable to support it, but that is only half his statement. I find the other half to be more absurd.

Harte says, "most abductions have occurred in large cities, and most of those in high rise apartments in New York City."

Again, most means, "the majority of". That means Harte is saying that at least 26% of all abductions are from high rise apartment buildings in New York City.

At LEAST 26%. Most of 51% is anywhere from 26% to 50%.

And folks, that is what I call pure nonsense. There is no evidence that suggests at least 26% of all alien abductions are from high rise apartments in New York City. Absolutely none.

Harte is unable to defend that ridiculous claim. At this point, he is more likely to argue that he didn't mean to use the word "most", but I won't put words in his mouth. I will, however, ask him to support the words that he does use.

I meant what I said, and gave my source.

I don't consider Omni to be (or have been) the be-all and end-all of sources though.

Again, do you have a source for where (or in what sort of regions) most abductions have occurred?

Omni said what I said. Where's your info coming from?

Harte



posted on Mar, 30 2015 @ 08:58 AM
link   

originally posted by: HarteSo I see you're going to stick by that claim that "most abductions happen in cities where there are always people around" with no evidence to back it up whatsoever? Cool

I told you where I read it, at least.

You, on the other hand, appear to have read something at the referenced link that's not even there.

Only you and Zeta are worried about location, like I told him, it doesn't matter to me.The only way it matters to me is the unbelievable absence of witnesses to these high-rise abductions.

That fact has meaning. What it means is that the abductions didn't occur. At least, not physically.

Harte


I recently saw a news story, it didn't seem relevant at the time, so I didn't read it. But, it was about this man in New York City who was seriously beaten while on the subway train...in a car full of people...long story short; nobody seemed to "see" anything!

So much for your "lack" of city witnesses.

This whole argument you are having; is two people...One with a wee bit of logic and another who insists on using a poorly remembered story from some time ago.

The reality is that ET, IF he actually has any intelligence, an I submit; he must! Would not, logically, abduct people from the city, unless, there was some compelling reason. Logically, ET would abduct from a place of relative safety...not un like their Terrestrial Human counterparts. The Human would "abduct" the Lion so as to collect data about him...that very same Human would not be very likely to enter the Lion's Den (figuratively speaking).

By-the-way; somehow missed your Omni link...or was that the link that didn't go to where you said. (it could also be my failing vision).



edit on 30-3-2015 by tanka418 because: (no reason given)

edit on 30-3-2015 by tanka418 because: (no reason given)

edit on 30-3-2015 by tanka418 because: (no reason given)




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