Russia says Ukraine law on autonomy violates peace deal

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Turned over based on what?

You used the term "handed over". That indicates the rebels didn't have control of the city, and by extension, was still a part of Ukraine. The rebels took it upon them selves to call an audible on the Minsk agreement by claiming the city we are talking about was somehow exempt from the agreement when in reality is was not exempt.


Neither side is suppose to be firing so why are the rebels moving on Mariupol?

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Well Yanukovych and his cronies stole billions from the country and imagine that he is living like a king in Russia with the help of the Russian government. Here you might want to look at this...

The Ukraine has a history of corrupt officials, Yanukovych isn't the only one. And why not take refuge in Russia? Where do you expect him to go, London? Or maybe North Korea? How about California.

He was ousted by a coup that wasn't uhh.. "home brewed".

They tried and Russia won't let them which is why Russia is doing what they are in Ukraine.

There is this, but it's RT Russia won’t oppose Ukraine’s EU accession That's from 2010.

The head exploding comments by Victoria Nuland? Here you go...

Ukraine crisis: Transcript of leaked Nuland-Pyatt call

I don't think Ukraine has had much say in it's own future once Yak decided to go with Russia. Oh yea, the gold is still gone.

SO you can provide evidence to back this claim, because it seems the other countries that were once part of Russia are doing just fine after joining the EU. Also Ukraine has lived under the Russian rule for a long time and remember that and do not want to go back to that.

It seems or they are? That's just my opinion. I am taking into account that aside from the corruption Ukraine would have to borrow and spend billions in getting the country up to snuff in meeting EU standards. Also, since the EU's economy is toast, warm buttery toast, having Ukraine joining wouldn't benefit anyone, least of all Ukraine. They would find themselves in a Greek situation. The EU's economy melted down and never recovered back in 2008.

Here is an older article from Stratfor Ukraine: On the Edge of Empires

Here is some conjecture; Borderland: Ukraine’s Dilemma

However, I like this guy's explanation Ukrainians must beware of what joining Europe could actually mean

Here, Yak (as corrupt as he is) was just shopping for a deal, seeing whose offer was better, and he went with Russia, I guess the EU's deal wasn't as compelling Putin offers Ukraine $15B in loans and cheap natural gas in bid to trump EU deal

The same rightfully elected president that was corrupt, stealing money and lying to the people he was elected to help...and the same one that was being impeached with his own party's approval, you mean that president?

Our politicians do the exact same thing! Minus the impeach part. It's better than having foreigners (whose allegiance is not to Ukraine) in charge of your countries finances and who knows what else. They still had their gold back then...

a reply to: cenpuppie

Ukraine crisis: Transcript of leaked Nuland-Pyatt call

Well I have to ask if that is so credible, why is this not just as credible?

It seems or they are?

You tell me...

Beckmann-Dierkes says the Baltic states have come a long way in the past 25 years and now boast stable political systems, a commitment to democracy, freedom of speech, assembly and press. "They are back at the heart of Europe."

These days, the Baltic nations cut fine political and economic figures, which Beckmann-Dierkes attributes to a healthy Baltic attitude. "They had to accept certain cuts, but they had a 'we-can-do-it' attitude, and that has paid off," he said, citing stable growing economies and imminent entry into the eurozone.

www.dw.de...

Seems they are.

Putin offers Ukraine $15B in loans and cheap natural gas in bid to trump EU deal

Well then I guess you might want to see this...

Glazyev, speaking on the sidelines of the discussion, said the exact opposite was true: "Ukrainian authorities make a huge mistake if they think that the Russian reaction will become neutral in a few years from now. This will not happen."

Instead, he said, signing the agreement would make the default of Ukraine inevitable and Moscow would not offer any helping hand. "Russia is the main creditor of Ukraine. Only with customs union with Russia can Ukraine balance its trade," he said. Russia has already slapped import restrictions on certain Ukrainian products and Glazyev did not rule out further sanctions if the agreement was signed.

"We don't want to use any kind of blackmail. This is a question for the Ukrainian people," said Glazyev. "But legally, signing this agreement about association with EU, the Ukrainian government violates the treaty on strategic partnership and friendship with Russia." When this happened, he said, Russia could no longer guarantee Ukraine's status as a state and could possibly intervene if pro-Russian regions of the country appealed directly to Moscow.

"Signing this treaty will lead to political and social unrest," said the Kremlin aide. "The living standard will decline dramatically … there will be chaos."

www.theguardian.com...

Sounds exactly like what is happening in Ukraine today...the Russians must be able to see the future, or was that a sign as to what Russia had intended to do all along?

Our politicians do the exact same thing!

And nobody has said they don't do it, but this isn't about them.

It's better than having foreigners (whose allegiance is not to Ukraine) in charge of your countries finances and who knows what else. They still had their gold back then...

SO it is okay that the Ukrainian president was stealing from them just as long as foreigners don't try and help the people that he stole from...interesting.