It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Presbyterian Church (USA) Amends Constitution to Allow Gay Marriage

page: 6
4
<< 3  4  5    7  8  9 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Mar, 19 2015 @ 12:32 AM
link   
a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

You said: "Please by all means explain how you have the power of omniscience that you would be privy to their inner thoughts and emotions, and their sex lives, and you could potentially sway my opinion entirely."

I sought my creator and was answered.

'A homosexual cannot be aroused with a partner that would allow conception':
You say: "Scenario: a homosexual woman is aroused by her female partner who has a functioning reproductive system. I just rendered your argument invalid."

You have rendered nothing invalid. A two women having sex cannot conceive a baby. I have already acknowledged that they have functional reproductive systems, but since they are gay and of the same sex they are not going to procreate together.

You claim that gay people have procreated with the opposite sex and you are correct. It happens but if the individual is truly gay, they are not in love with that person they procreated with, and thus are taking away the element of love in the moment of conception. The child is not conceived in love. Again, this is stuff you can catch up on by actually reading the entire thread.
edit on 19-3-2015 by chadderson because: (no reason given)




posted on Mar, 19 2015 @ 12:56 AM
link   
a reply to: windword

Please re-read my post that you are quoting from, it was edited and must have been done after you started writing this post.

I realize I am posting on a christian thread, but I have never stated to be Christian. You are taking this out of context by making accusations before asking.

Marriage exists to bring a child into this world under the veil of love. These are the children that thrive. Marriage is done "before god" because it has EVERYTHING to do with our creator, come on now. To know our creator is to know how to love everyone. Traditionally, to marry before our creator is to show grattitude to that creator and to cement ones personal commitment with their creator to love (sexually) only the one that the creator has put before them for the rest of their human life.

Homosexuals do not procreate, they are not attracted to a mate that would allow conception. Homosexual males can get women pregnant because their organs work, but if the male is truly homosexual why is he having sex with a woman? I do not see the logic in this part of your argument.

To be conceived in love is the most beneficial for the child. Do you believe in meditation? Are you familiar with cymatics? Are you familiar with the term 'developmental stress'? The more stress (and in a humans case, lack of love) the higher chance of a birth defect. This is evident in not only the human species, but plantae kingdom, and animal kingdom.
edit on 19-3-2015 by chadderson because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 19 2015 @ 01:02 AM
link   
a reply to: windword

You also stated "orgasm is the reason for intercourse". You have validated what I have said previously, that sex exists for procreation. The orgasm exists to spread the human seed.



posted on Mar, 19 2015 @ 06:38 AM
link   
a reply to: chadderson

I sought my creator and was answered.

I would like to discuss this with the creator myself. Just in case you misheard. Which one did you speak with?


but since they are gay and of the same sex they are not going to procreate together.

Yes but how are you specifically saying they are defected. Earlier you equated it to their inability to procreate. They can and do procreate. Whether they do that with each other has no bearing on that.


The child is not conceived in love. Again, this is stuff you can catch up on by actually reading the entire thread.

If this thread had never existed I would still know what I know now. Which is to say I personally know plenty of gay people whom are in love with each other and make love to each other.

If this thread had never existed I still would have heard countless personal testimony of gay people expressing the same thing.

Your notion that they can't procreate 'through love' is as unfounded and bizarre as the rest of what you're saying.



posted on Mar, 19 2015 @ 06:45 AM
link   

originally posted by: chadderson
The child is not conceived in love.


What are the differences between a child 'conceived in love' and one that was not?



posted on Mar, 19 2015 @ 06:45 AM
link   

originally posted by: chadderson
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Natural disasters are not predictable. What happens when an asteroid his the earth, are we at fault for living in the "wrong place"?


Technically yes, but there is nothing we can do about it since we can't escape this planet yet. I'm personally all for pushing our technology so that we can colonize space. That way we can avoid asteroids and other galactic natural disasters.


Heres one for you to chew on.. What happens when the fire and smoke from that asteroid kills off specific peoples. Why did our creator choose to leave certain individuals here to stay, and live, and create life?


That's a question for your god. For me it is just that some people are just luckier than others.


This does not eliminate defects, it is part of creation itself. But it restores balance and order. This happens always.


Like I said, one species' defect is another species' advantage. It all depends on the environment and how it fits into the food chain.



posted on Mar, 19 2015 @ 08:20 AM
link   
a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

There is only one creator. Infinite higher powers exist, infinite lower powers exist, one creator exists.

The defect is the fact that they are innately attracted to the same sex, this is a defect that prohibits them from procreating.

You clam to "know" now what you knew before, yet you continue to ask me what the defect of a homosexual is. Homosexuality itself is the defect. To be attracted to the same sex, is the defect. Just as one born with downs syndrome, is a defect. Homosexuality is a malfunctioning of the chemistry of the brain.



posted on Mar, 19 2015 @ 08:21 AM
link   
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Thank you for your participating and sharing your opinions.
edit on 19-3-2015 by chadderson because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 19 2015 @ 08:23 AM
link   
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

What is the difference between raising a plant in dim light versus bright light? What is the difference between raising a plant with limited spectrums of light versus all spectrums? In both cases the plant does not develop the same way, it is limited in its potential.

Humans are affected by this in the same way, except love is the light that nourishes us.. shining on every cell in development.

Loves influence can be likened to magnetism, among many other things. The influence of love is stimulating and places the cells in proper order, similar to cymatics.
edit on 19-3-2015 by chadderson because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 19 2015 @ 09:01 AM
link   

originally posted by: chadderson
What is the difference between raising a plant in dim light versus bright light?


Poor analogy. You said conceived, which in the context of your analogy, would be planting a seed.



posted on Mar, 19 2015 @ 09:18 AM
link   
a reply to: chadderson

There is only one creator. Infinite higher powers exist, infinite lower powers exist, one creator exists.

How does one commune with it as you have? Does this creator have any 'inspired texts'?

It is amusing though. This notion of a Creator's creation being defective in that Creator's eyes, and seemingly impotent towards correction.


The defect is the fact that they are innately attracted to the same sex, this is a defect that prohibits them from procreating.

It doesn't prohibit them from procreating! Either one of those gay men can procreate. Either one of those gay women can procreate. How is this continuing to not make sense to you? Their reproductive capabilities are not hindered. Hence why they are successfully able to utilize surrogate mothers and insemination. Take a lesbian couple as an example: one of them could mother the first child, and the other could mother the second child. The fact they didn't impregnate each other directly with their own sex organs doesn't change they were both able to birth a baby. Likewise, either gay men could impregnate the surrogate mother. Hell one of those gay men could impregnate one of those gay women.

All you can say here is that because they are gay, and because gay people cannot procreate without outside agency, they have to employ alternate means to do so. Fine. I don't think anyone here is under the impression that's not the case. We know where babies come from. The 'defect' you're contriving remains unclear but it's not a biological defect.

If the issue is truly about procreation in of itself then any means they take to procreate should satisfy. The end result is another baby in the World.

As for the rest of your ideas concerning love and intimacy, and the lack thereof; I honestly have no clue what angle to approach this as they make little sense to me and fly in the face of both my knowledge and experience.


Homosexuality itself is the defect. To be attracted to the same sex, is the defect. Just as one born with downs syndrome, is a defect. Homosexuality is a malfunctioning of the chemistry of the brain.

I ask as I have now asked multiple times of multiple claims like this you have made.

Substantiate this with something. Demonstrate they have 'malfunctioning brains'. Post your sources so we can discuss its merit. So far its been solely conjecture.

As far as I know the underlying cause for sexual orientation has not been definitively resolved and is quite debated. It is as I understand thought likely to be a collection of factors. Of both nature and nurture. I'm not sure, but I am also pretty sure "not sure" is the current consensus. So by all means educate us.

Additionally framing it as a 'defect', at least on the psychological front, has not been the position of the health sciences for quite some time now. You are, but that's not the professional understanding.



posted on Mar, 19 2015 @ 09:47 AM
link   
Some seeds actually require darkness to germinate. Some seeds require some light. Some seeds it doesn't even matter.

To further the analogy..

L̶i̶g̶h̶t̶ Love has little to no bearing on g̶e̶r̶m̶i̶n̶a̶t̶i̶o̶n̶ impregnating, however healthy growth of the ̶p̶l̶a̶n̶t̶ baby requires lots of ̶l̶i̶g̶h̶t̶ love afterwards.
edit on 19-3-2015 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 19 2015 @ 10:35 AM
link   

originally posted by: DeathSlayer

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
a reply to: DeathSlayer

So, your statement:


originally posted by: DeathSlayer
Did you know that now it is legal for incest sex? That's right Dad and daughters, Moms with their sons all having sex and it is legal!!


Is NOT in fact, true. For one thing, that's in Germany. This is in the USA (see title).
And secondly, it's not at all legal in Germany for "dad and daughters, moms with their sons" to have sex. Your external quote proves what you said to be false. Read it carefully.



. . . .new law of humans now can legally have sex with animals!


What law is that?

Animals can not give consent.



posted on Mar, 19 2015 @ 10:40 AM
link   

originally posted by: chadderson
a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

Homosexuals have functional organs. Homosexuals have malfunctioning brains. The brain controls the organs as well as their involuntary actions.


So, you agree then.

Homosexuals are born that way. It is their natural birthright.



posted on Mar, 19 2015 @ 10:52 AM
link   
a reply to: chadderson



Please re-read my post that you are quoting from, it was edited and must have been done after you started writing this post.


Is there something in my reply that misrepresented your argument? It's my understanding that you believe that homosexuality is a defect and that homosexuals love through a defective lens.



Marriage exists to bring a child into this world under the veil of love.


You mean sexual love? I understand that's your stance, but t's extremely narrow minded and idealized, in my opinion. In arranged marriages, such as those exemplar biblical marriages of lore, love came later, if it came at all. I'm certain that, more often than not, there was more fear than love, on the part of the bride, in the bridal chamber.

Certainly, the sense of a duty to bring children into the world is one reason people marry, but NOT the only reason and certainly not the most important reason. The MOST important reason people marry is for companionship and support in the life ahead, the couple have planned together, for better or for worse, whether there are children or not.



These are the children that thrive.


The emotions available at the moment of conception have very little to do with whether or not an embryo will survive, let alone thrive. Of course children who are loved have a better chance at "thriving" in life. However, you're limiting your definition of love to; "heterosexual love is the only kind of love that bonds a couple together, giving them the strength they'll need to raise a child". You contend homosexuals can't love correctly and so can't really ever bond with the children they've created or adopted! I strongly reject that notion. There's just no evidence of that, and it looks like an ugly attempt to make homosexuals a class of inferior humans.


Marriage is done "before god" because it has EVERYTHING to do with our creator, come on now.


Isn't EVERYTHING done before "God", if you believe in such a thing? Personally, I have no belief in a creator God that peers into our life, watching and judging our actions and motives. I understand that many people do, Jews, Muslims and Christians alike.


To know our creator is to know how to love everyone. Traditionally, to marry before our creator is to show grattitude to that creator and to cement ones personal commitment with their creator to love (sexually) only the one that the creator has put before them for the rest of their human life.


I have no belief in a match maker creator, or in a personal creator god at all.

In my mind, it's just creepy to imagine that God's watching you schtooping your wife, while and you accept his "approval", like God's watching and saying "Thumbs up dude!"
"Looking good!"


I don't even believe that all people are meant to be in monogamous relationships. Some relationships devolve into abusive and toxic, loveless marriages. Rather than spend a lifetime subjecting oneself (and one's children) to abuse and dysfunction, some marriages are best dissolved. And, everyone deserves unlimited chances to achieve love and happiness, in my opinion.



posted on Mar, 19 2015 @ 12:31 PM
link   

originally posted by: chadderson
a reply to: windword

You also stated "orgasm is the reason for intercourse". You have validated what I have said previously, that sex exists for procreation. The orgasm exists to spread the human seed.



Jeez! Nobody ever said that sex and procreation don't go hand in hand. But procreation isn't the ONLY reason for sexual expression. Basically, you're saying that people who have sex and don't procreate are worthless sinners.

You said:



Homosexual relationships are merely friendships. It is a union that cannot create new life. Sex within a union that cannot procreate is one of two things, a defect or a choice to chase an orgasm with the absence of love.


I've already addressed your ridiculous assertion that homosexuals are incapable of "love".

I simply asked you how "chasing orgasm" is a homosexual problem. I've known plenty of heterosexuals who chase orgasms. What's wrong with having pleasurable sex while using birth control? What's wrong with having orgasms through self stimulation? Do you also think masturbation is sinful? Does God not enjoy to watching self love?



edit on 19-3-2015 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 19 2015 @ 12:53 PM
link   

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: DeathSlayer

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
a reply to: DeathSlayer

So, your statement:


originally posted by: DeathSlayer
Did you know that now it is legal for incest sex? That's right Dad and daughters, Moms with their sons all having sex and it is legal!!


Is NOT in fact, true. For one thing, that's in Germany. This is in the USA (see title).
And secondly, it's not at all legal in Germany for "dad and daughters, moms with their sons" to have sex. Your external quote proves what you said to be false. Read it carefully.



. . . .new law of humans now can legally have sex with animals!


What law is that?

Animals can not give consent.


It is legal in Germany to have sex with an animal that weighs 10 kilogram or less......

My reasoning........ just like the Presbyterian Church has adjusted their morals so has nations ...like the example I gave of incest and bestality acceptance within Germany.

The times of Noah.........



posted on Mar, 19 2015 @ 12:58 PM
link   

originally posted by: DeathSlayer

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: DeathSlayer

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
a reply to: DeathSlayer

So, your statement:


originally posted by: DeathSlayer
Did you know that now it is legal for incest sex? That's right Dad and daughters, Moms with their sons all having sex and it is legal!!


Is NOT in fact, true. For one thing, that's in Germany. This is in the USA (see title).
And secondly, it's not at all legal in Germany for "dad and daughters, moms with their sons" to have sex. Your external quote proves what you said to be false. Read it carefully.



. . . .new law of humans now can legally have sex with animals!


What law is that?

Animals can not give consent.


It is legal in Germany to have sex with an animal that weighs 10 kilogram or less......

My reasoning........ just like the Presbyterian Church has adjusted their morals so has nations ...like the example I gave of incest and bestality acceptance within Germany.

The times of Noah.........


And once seizures were thought to be being possessed by the Devil.

Education allows for progression when it's deserved.

------------------

NOTE: Erotic Zoos ---- learned something new. Seriously, very seriously doubt that will ever happen in America. I know some people from other countries don't understand America's fascination with pets.


edit on 19-3-2015 by Annee because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 19 2015 @ 01:10 PM
link   
a reply to: DeathSlayer




It is legal in Germany to have sex with an animal that weighs 10 kilogram or less......


Is it legal or is it decriminalized. Do you think teenage boys who try the peanut butter l!ck tr!ck, or J@rk @ff their excited little dogs should be jailed or labeled as sexual predators?



posted on Mar, 19 2015 @ 01:44 PM
link   

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: DeathSlayer




It is legal in Germany to have sex with an animal that weighs 10 kilogram or less......


Is it legal or is it decriminalized. Do you think teenage boys who try the peanut butter l!ck tr!ck, or J@rk @ff their excited little dogs should be jailed or labeled as sexual predators?


I had to google what the peanut butter lick trick was all about.

WOW, I must admit I am still trying to get those images out of my head including the "jerking off" dogs part. Man, I love my dog but not that way.

And those teenage boys who participate in these practices....... well I would first take a close look at their family because something is not ticking right or these boys have way to much free time to let their thoughts go that wild.

IMO I believe it is very bad parenting and not raising your children properly with teachings in morals and ethics.

Internet can be a curse to some.




top topics



 
4
<< 3  4  5    7  8  9 >>

log in

join