Presbyterian Church (USA) Amends Constitution to Allow Gay Marriage

What about homosexuality in the animal kingdom, is that natural?? a reply to: AinElohim

originally posted by: chadderson
a reply to: AinElohim

Acutally, everything about humanity is 'natural'. Everything we witness in creation is natural.

Well we didn't make it this far to go playing Quest for Fire with our deductions from nature for science.

We are above the animal kingdom now, we are a new species and we don't have to act like animals.

originally posted by: chadderson
a reply to: Krazysh0t

You are confusing hate with truth. It is sensed as hate because truth is difficult to digest, let alone for those who do not get their daily nutritional dosage. Show me the credible evidence where "science disagrees with" homosexuality being a completely natural defect.

Yea I've seen this argument from haters before. Disguise your intolerance as "truth".
Being Gay Is Natural: Just Ask Bonobos

There are hundreds of examples of non-reproductive sex among animals, from albatrosses to koalas. But none of these examples can make people quite so uncomfortable as bonobos do. Two bonobo females having sex looks very different than two female albatrosses sitting placidly on their nest. Bonobo sex looks human.

These primates are so closely related to people that they share 98.7 percent of humans' DNA. Along with chimpanzees, they are humans' closest living relatives. Yet, barely anyone knows what a bonobo is. In a survey by our Hominoid Psychology Research Group survey, only 15 percent of people who had the highest level of education (university) knew that bonobos are great apes. Spell check does not recognize 'bonobo' as a word. But in the debate over whether gay marriage, or any other non-reproductive sexual relationship, is "natural," no other animal holds more importance.

Homosexuality Is Natural

In some ways we could argue that since it happens at all, that it is natural. Unless we assume there is some unnatural external force teaching or manipulating some of us, seemingly at random, that could change what we were sexually attracted to. Of course some people claim this to be the case; claiming the cause is the media or the devil, and unfortunately some naturally homosexual people believe that too, living a life in denial, or attending some conversion therapy in an attempt to ‘be normal’.

More than 1,500 different animal species, including chimpanzees, dolphins and apes engage in homosexual and bisexual acts.

“We’re talking about everything from mammals to crabs and worms. The actual number is of course much higher. Among some animals homosexual behaviour is rare, some having sex with the same gender only a part of their life, while other animals, such as the dwarf chimpanzee, homosexuality is practiced throughout their lives.” – Petter Boeckman

If we were also to argue that the sole natural purpose of sex is to reproduce, then are masturbation and oral sex also unnatural? Should we demonize condom use just as much? We could also argue, using another theory, that homosexuality and asexuality are natural methods of population control.

Right and wrong are subjective things and cannot be quantified, this is true, yet we debate. We have made the movement to play judge and it is god's place to teach us otherwise. I give you my truths in hopes of hearing something even more positive to refine my path all the more. So from a subjective perspective, you cannot deny what I say without becoming a part of 'subjective quantitivity'. Thus, be positive and give me your input or do not partake. You are either going to be shot down, as you are now, or your perspective will enlighten me. I am seeking the latter.

Sure if you say so. Read over my evidence. I am always happy oblige in the evidence department. The problem is that most of the people I talk to aren't open to new ideas. Let's see which category you fall into.

a reply to: AinElohim

Besides just hate speech, what are you saying here? Like usual, you provide no evidence for your assertions and just parrot blind rhetoric as truth. I'm still waiting for you to define "normal".

a reply to: Krazysh0t

You have not given any credible evidence that states "science disagrees with" homosexuality being a completely natural defect. You article backs my argument that homosexuality is completely natural and happens across swaths of life, just as birth defects do.

You are falling into the category of the folks that refuse to accept truth, and thus label the truth something else like hate so as to justify your unwillingness to accept truth. I am spewing no hate at all. Check my previous posts please, read critically. We need to love everyone equally. Drawing lines on what is a defect and what is not, is not hateful. Should those with downs syndrome not be taken extra special care of because of their birth defects? Should their defect be ignored, since bringing light to the fact that it is a defect by your logic, is hate?

a reply to: Krazysh0t

No; just because my view differs from yours and trumps your...

Doesn't mean it's not free speech... this is USA, not England.

originally posted by: chadderson
a reply to: Krazysh0t

You have not given any credible evidence that states "science disagrees with" homosexuality being a completely natural defect. You article backs my argument that homosexuality is completely natural and happens across swaths of life, just as birth defects do.

So where is your evidence that it is a defect?

You are falling into the category of the folks that refuse to accept truth, and thus label the truth something else like hate so as to justify your unwillingness to accept truth. I am spewing no hate at all. Check my previous posts please, read critically. We need to love everyone equally. Drawing lines on what is a defect and what is not, is not hateful. Should those with downs syndrome not be taken extra special care of because of their birth defects? Should their defect be ignored, since bringing light to the fact that it is a defect by your logic, is hate?

Yea except you have provided no proof that it is a defect yet willingly label it as such like it is settled science.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

You see "freedom of speech" prevents people like you and a couple other people in this thread from silencing others by claiming they are commuting hate speech, or are bigots or racist or whatever.

personally I think your music is amateur

originally posted by: AinElohim
a reply to: Krazysh0t

No; just because my view differs from yours and trumps your...

Your view differs yes, but it certainly doesn't "trump" mine. It IS definitely hate speech though. That is a certainty. Everything you said is hateful and would make a homosexual feel unjustly inferior and if not that, they would be at the least very insulted. Trying to argue that a homosexual life is not worth living is VERY mean spirited.

Doesn't mean it's not free speech... this is USA, not England.

I didn't say it wasn't free speech. So don't put words in my mouth.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

My friend, sex exists to create life. The urge to be stimulated sexually comes from the most innate and deepest recesses of who we are as humans. When something happens within the biochemistry of a male to make him target other males as a response to his innate desires, it most certainly has to be a defect. The biochemistry would probably even show something as significant as low testosterone or other chemical imbalances if sciences actually wanted to define it and draw a line.

There are those who practice sexual stimulation with themselves, with objects, with same sexed humans... but this is not the intention of sex, merely a release of the sexual tension that innately builds up within us whether we like it or not. Some may say, a loss of discipline.. Some may say, a sin. Either way you look at it we are on this earth to learn, to improve, and to love. Lessons will be learned and we will grow from them.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

keep on crying hate speech to everyone who is smarter than you...

it will be so fun watching a person go thru life like that lol, maybe someone should make a video walking through New York haha.

originally posted by: AinElohim
a reply to: Krazysh0t

You see "freedom of speech" prevents people like you and a couple other people in this thread from silencing others by claiming they are commuting hate speech, or are bigots or racist or whatever.

Actually what freedom of speech does is prohibits the GOVERNMENT from silencing people commuting hate speech.

1st Amendment

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.[1]

There is nothing in there about citizens preventing other citizens from saying hate speech. Thus, naturally, hate speech is against the T&C here at ATS since it is owned privately. It would help if you actually knew the Constitution before you started trying to educate me on what it says.

personally I think your music is amateur

Ya ya. We've already had this conversation. Yet, we go in circles with you telling me that you have a better opinion than me but never actually put forth a logical argument or evidence to back your opinion up. It gets pretty old hat fast.

(eta) Case in point, this post below does nothing to further the conversation:

originally posted by: AinElohim
a reply to: Krazysh0t

keep on crying hate speech to everyone who is smarter than you...

it will be so fun watching a person go thru life like that lol, maybe someone should make a video walking through New York haha.

originally posted by: chadderson
a reply to: Krazysh0t

My friend, sex exists to create life. The urge to be stimulated sexually comes from the most innate and deepest recesses of who we are as humans. When something happens within the biochemistry of a male to make him target other males as a response to his innate desires, it most certainly has to be a defect. The biochemistry would probably even show something as significant as low testosterone or other chemical imbalances if sciences actually wanted to define it and draw a line.

Defects in nature reduce survivability. Nothing about homosexuality makes it so a gay person has a harder time living day to day than a straight person.

For instance, there is a theory that homosexuality is nature's way of stabilizing a population by increasing the overall percentage of the homosexual population so it doesn't grow out of control and overpopulate.

Homosexuality as Population Control? Why Gays & Lesbians Are Essential to the Balance of Nature.

There are those who practice sexual stimulation with themselves, with objects, with same sexed humans... but this is not the intention of sex, merely a release of the sexual tension that innately builds up within us whether we like it or not.

It can be argued that sex has evolved away from the original purpose it evolved for. Such things happen all the time in nature. That doesn't make it a defect. For instance, legs evolved so that animals can walk on land. Later down the line, some animals walked back into the ocean and those legs evolved into fins. Those appendages are still there, they just ended up being used for a different purpose.

originally posted by: darkbake
It sounds like your kids are being brought up in a negative environment. I've known adults whose parents were homophobic and it caused a rift in their relationship with their parents once they were old enough to make their own decisions.

I agree with you (just so you know I'm not nipping at you) but it's pretty pointless arguing about things like this. People aren't going to change concrete views. Just take solace in the fact that conservatives and fundies are an endangered species.

a reply to: chadderson

My friend, sex exists to create life.

Yet, marriage is NOT a prerequisite of sex. And, sex is NOT a requisite of marriage either. Many married couples refrain from sex, and marry for companionship.

Then the LORD God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone; I will make him a helper suitable for him."

Sex exists for more that procreation. It's good exercise, entertaining and fun. It provides a healthy release of hormones which helps prevent heart attacks, circulation problems and kidney failure. It's necessary for familial bonding, affection and empathy.

a reply to: Krazysh0t



and Mickey Mouse Logic too for that matter...

a reply to: Krazysh0t

*I have edited my previous post since you have posted, unknowingly, if you'd like to revisit it and add another section to your comment. I do appreciate your perspective and want to learn from what you have to say.

With that said, homosexuality exists in two forms. One, as a defect where the individual has no perspective besides that of a homosexual. The soul is the same as us, the lens at which they witness the world is different, defected. And secondly, as a natural way to release the sexual tension that builds within us. The people among the second category are not struggling with a defect so much as they are with their own self discipline. We are touching in slippery psychological territory, but sex that is focused on the orgasm and inflating the ego, rather than who or what they are engaging with. This act is not one of love, though many may think and claim it to be, but one of selfishness.

I like your theory about nature adjusting population by creating gays. I agree with you. Birth defects in the animal kingdom result in the death of that individual. As compassionate humans we share love with those less fortunate than us. Mentally as well as physically handicapped can flourish in humanity. For instance, homeless are nurtured and kept alive only because others make the choice to love and not hate. These people would not survive a winter without the love of other human beings.

Human compassion is trying to stand up for gay's but our vision is skewed, and some want to give it the same sacred rights as the life creating union between a man and a woman. We need to love, tolerate, and help these people the same way we help others with defects.

a reply to: windword

Nowhere did i say marriage was a prerequisite for sex. Sex does exist for procreation, solely. Other benefits like "exercise" are just things that happen because of it. Sex doesnt exist so we stay in shape or stay entertained, smh.

Marriage is something that should be granted to a male and female that are in tune with their creator and are able to make a true commitment to their creator through the act of marriage.

Marriage is not about commiting yourself to another person. It is commiting yourself to a promise with your creator that you love and trust who has been put before you. That you will continue to be an upright, disciplined, positive, astute person or that union can fall apart. To find yourself before the person that IS truly in this world just for you, you MUST be in union with your creator first.

originally posted by: chadderson
I do appreciate your perspective and want to learn from what you have to say..

this type of perspective is easily gained freely...

just read the Huffington post, watch a bunch of Richard Dawkins & Friends videos on youtube... then frequent Liberal Left-leaning Conspiracy sites on the internet.

You know, the anti-authority anti-government ones...

No Free-Thinking involved!

a reply to: chadderson

You are missing the point of evolution. One species' defect is another species' beneficial trait. This is why I only look at things that hinder the survival. Humans don't live in the wild anymore. We live in towns and cities. Most live in a house at the least. Just like we alter society to make it easier for us to live, our bodies are adapting to better fit into society.

Sex is no longer just a procreational activity as much as you want to claim it as so. It has evolved from that. Humans have evolved and developed their pasttime to be used for more than just procreation. The problem is that you are looking at humanity in a static environment, but that isn't the case. Humans are always evolving. Always changing. That goes for our desires and activities as well. Music evolved out of war. People used to beat drums and sound instruments during battle to put fear into their enemies. Now it is used to express our deepest and our shallowest emotions.

Also note that while a mentally handicapped person may have trouble surviving without assistance, a homosexual can survive just fine by him or herself. They can even resist their hormonal urges and procreate if they wanted to. So it isn't like a society of homosexuals would go extinct because it can easily be arranged for them to reproduce. There is literally nothing about being a homosexual that holds a person back in nature.