It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Carl Sagan; what you didn't know.

page: 1
2

log in

join
share:

posted on Mar, 17 2015 @ 06:18 PM
link   
Carl Sagan like so many of us had a deathbed confession, In his change of heart he renounced atheism and accepted Jesus to save him in the afterlife.

I feel a little bad for Sagan in such a manners as that so much of this mans talents we're not put to use properly. I wish he could have spoke more in life like the theme in his book "Contact"

The underlying theme if you haven't read this book or went and seen the movie is that Science and Theism are pretty much one and the same... both are the search for truth.

Carl Sagan's wife Ann was at his side, and it is through her that we get most of the final thoughts of one of the Grand Master Influential Geniuses of our time.


They brought in the children at the end, just before he passed. It was December 1996, and Carl Sagan, the famous astronomer, was lying in a bed at the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center in Seattle. It had been more than a year since Sagan was first diagnosed with myelodysplasia, a rare cancer of the bone marrow. Since then he had undergone several rounds of treatment, including multiple bone marrow transplants, radiation, and chemotherapy. But the disease was persistent and unforgiving. This most recent trip to Seattle — the Sagans lived in Ithaca, New York, where he taught at Cornell University — would be his last. Sagan had contracted an aggressive pneumonia, a complication stemming from his treatment. His immune system was powerless against the disease. Lying in his bed, Sagan told his writing partner and wife of fifteen years, Ann Druyan, “This is a deathwatch. I’m going to die.”

americasfuture.org...

Back in the early days of the internet sometime before 9/11 I wrote Ann close to a 7 page letter thanking her and expressing my thoughts about Mr Sagan and how much influence he had on my life. It's somewhere stored in the archives of her tribute site.

Enjoy...




posted on Mar, 17 2015 @ 06:29 PM
link   
Spinoza’s “God” has been popular with many great minds.


“Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.” Remains true as the day he said it.

RIP Carl



posted on Mar, 17 2015 @ 06:33 PM
link   
a reply to: AinElohim

Carl was truly a great man and a great mind.

But it is plain that his deathbed conversion to Christianity was a fiction.



posted on Mar, 17 2015 @ 06:39 PM
link   

edit on 17-3-2015 by CharlieSpeirs because: I meant what I said, but contextually it seemed insensitive... & I have yet to find the right words to convey my thoughts.



posted on Mar, 17 2015 @ 06:42 PM
link   
And yet, you can also read Contact and come to the conclusion that science and religion are one in a spiritual manner rather than in an atheistic manner.

God is the ultimate and first scientist. This is all here because He put it here, and it all operates because He set it in motion. We will never find God in this universe unless we learn how to go beyond it, but we might find evidence of His fingerprints on it. Those in and of themselves will never be the kind of proof anyone who looks for concreteness, direct experience will ever accept. They will only ever be like the vision of Arroway which is why no one back on earth was willing to believe ... except for Palmer Joss.



posted on Mar, 17 2015 @ 06:45 PM
link   

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: AinElohim

Carl was truly a great man and a great mind.

But it is plain that his deathbed conversion to Christianity was a fiction.



Practicing or converting to a religion in your final hours might me a little difficult, I don't think he became a Christian so to say... being that it is such a dirty word and all.

There's a lot to read through and even on Ann's official sites. Carl Sagan accepted that Jesus was real and that he was a man and historical figure.

Kind of makes you wonder what men of faith are doing floating around a dying man's bedside anyway, and at whose request?


edit on 17-3-2015 by AinElohim because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2015 @ 07:10 PM
link   

originally posted by: AinElohim
Carl Sagan like so many of us had a deathbed confession, In his change of heart he renounced atheism and accepted Jesus to save him in the afterlife.

I feel a little bad for Sagan in such a manners as that so much of this mans talents we're not put to use properly. I wish he could have spoke more in life like the theme in his book "Contact"

The underlying theme if you haven't read this book or went and seen the movie is that Science and Theism are pretty much one and the same... both are the search for truth.

Carl Sagan's wife Ann was at his side, and it is through her that we get most of the final thoughts of one of the Grand Master Influential Geniuses of our time.


They brought in the children at the end, just before he passed. It was December 1996, and Carl Sagan, the famous astronomer, was lying in a bed at the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center in Seattle. It had been more than a year since Sagan was first diagnosed with myelodysplasia, a rare cancer of the bone marrow. Since then he had undergone several rounds of treatment, including multiple bone marrow transplants, radiation, and chemotherapy. But the disease was persistent and unforgiving. This most recent trip to Seattle — the Sagans lived in Ithaca, New York, where he taught at Cornell University — would be his last. Sagan had contracted an aggressive pneumonia, a complication stemming from his treatment. His immune system was powerless against the disease. Lying in his bed, Sagan told his writing partner and wife of fifteen years, Ann Druyan, “This is a deathwatch. I’m going to die.”

americasfuture.org...

Back in the early days of the internet sometime before 9/11 I wrote Ann close to a 7 page letter thanking her and expressing my thoughts about Mr Sagan and how much influence he had on my life. It's somewhere stored in the archives of her tribute site.

Enjoy...
It doesn't matter what he said on his deathbed. A persons mind is in such a desperate state at that time, they will likely reach out in any way they think will help. What he did not do is prove the existence of god on his deathbed.

For those who would use this mans desperate words to push their own agenda, i say shame on you. I don't care what any man claims. I only care about what they can prove. Carl Sagan would agree.



posted on Mar, 17 2015 @ 07:11 PM
link   
Amazing how imminent death brings clarity to people.

Some say Anton Lavey had similar clarity as he died.

I am glad he was able to acknowledge the truth before he passed, in a life of unknowns not all will get that opportunity, unfortunately.

To bad he couldn't of had an open mind to the spiritual possibilities earlier in his life.

Comments like this,


21.Life is but a momentary glimpse of the wonder of this astonishing universe, and it is sad to see so many dreaming it away on spiritual fantasy. [Carl Sagan]


are accepted as fact by many of the scientific faith.

Many blindly follow what they think is 'truth' in modern science only to miss the only REAL Truth that matters.

Maybe if you think like Carl, or Richard Dawkins you will have a chance to SEE before it is too late. Maybe......

Thank you for sharing this OP, it is the most important question anyone will ever ponder.



posted on Mar, 17 2015 @ 07:16 PM
link   

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: AinElohim
Carl Sagan like so many of us had a deathbed confession, In his change of heart he renounced atheism and accepted Jesus to save him in the afterlife.

I feel a little bad for Sagan in such a manners as that so much of this mans talents we're not put to use properly. I wish he could have spoke more in life like the theme in his book "Contact"

The underlying theme if you haven't read this book or went and seen the movie is that Science and Theism are pretty much one and the same... both are the search for truth.

Carl Sagan's wife Ann was at his side, and it is through her that we get most of the final thoughts of one of the Grand Master Influential Geniuses of our time.


They brought in the children at the end, just before he passed. It was December 1996, and Carl Sagan, the famous astronomer, was lying in a bed at the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center in Seattle. It had been more than a year since Sagan was first diagnosed with myelodysplasia, a rare cancer of the bone marrow. Since then he had undergone several rounds of treatment, including multiple bone marrow transplants, radiation, and chemotherapy. But the disease was persistent and unforgiving. This most recent trip to Seattle — the Sagans lived in Ithaca, New York, where he taught at Cornell University — would be his last. Sagan had contracted an aggressive pneumonia, a complication stemming from his treatment. His immune system was powerless against the disease. Lying in his bed, Sagan told his writing partner and wife of fifteen years, Ann Druyan, “This is a deathwatch. I’m going to die.”

americasfuture.org...

Back in the early days of the internet sometime before 9/11 I wrote Ann close to a 7 page letter thanking her and expressing my thoughts about Mr Sagan and how much influence he had on my life. It's somewhere stored in the archives of her tribute site.

Enjoy...


For those who would use this mans desperate words to push their own agenda, i say shame on you. I don't care what any man claims. I only care about what they can prove. Carl Sagan would agree.


I know, talking about Jesus loving you and caring enough to die for you so that all you have to do is believe and repent is such a selfish, evil agenda.
Shudder at the horror of it.



posted on Mar, 17 2015 @ 07:21 PM
link   
This is not true.

answers.yahoo.com...




Best Answer: Not true. His widow published his work that was uncompleted at the time of his death called "The Varieties of Scientific Experience: A Personal View of the Search for God" which showed him to be skeptical in the answers he found and not a believer. She continues to support his causes and has never mentioned any deathbed conversions. I don't this would be the case if this story about him converting were true.





Actually zeroang3l, Sagan was agnostic, not an atheist.

Some quotes from Sagan:

"I have some discomfort with both believers and with nonbelievers when their opinions are not based on facts"

"An agnostic is somebody who doesn't believe in something until there is evidence for it, so I'm agnostic."



posted on Mar, 17 2015 @ 07:26 PM
link   
I read most of Carl Sagan's books growing up. I remember being very fond of Broca's Brain. And he did discuss religion in that one to some extent. And I loved his Cosmos series on PBS when I was a kid.

From what I understood of what I read from his writing, he was agnostic. He knew too much to know that to dismiss God was not a logical thing to do. Neither did I ever read he acknowledged a belief in God, but I did read him saying that he did not know, or could know. But he did teach evolution, so he didn't believe God created humankind, that much was obvious.

When he comes back in the resurrection, he will be quite surprised!



posted on Mar, 17 2015 @ 07:33 PM
link   
a reply to: AinElohim

Science and religion are closer related than many people relies, essentially they pose similar questions.

So Sagan accepting Jesus as his savior when the end was nigh so to speak does not necessarily do any discredit to the Man.

Some might say he was simply hedging his bet.



posted on Mar, 17 2015 @ 07:43 PM
link   
a reply to: AinElohim
From your link...


Druyan tells the story of her husband’s final days in the epilogue to Billions and Billions, a collection of essays published posthumously in 1997. Druyan is a graceful, lyrical writer, and her narrative is gripping. There’s a moment when she strikes a jarring note, however. It occurs after Sagan and five-year-old Sam have said their goodbyes. “Contrary to the fantasies of the fundamentalists,” Druyan writes, “there was no deathbed conversion, no last minute refuge taken in a comforting vision of a heaven or an afterlife. For Carl, what mattered most was what was true, not merely what would make us feel better.


That's what his wife Ann Druyan said according to your source and counter to your OP.

Additionally according to your source it was his two sons in the room during the final moments and not his wife. Contrary to your OP.

Did you even read your source??


Druyan was Sagan’s third wife. He had fathered three children with his two previous wives. In Druyan’s retelling of Sagan’s last moments, however, only their two children — Sasha and Sam — were at the hospital during those final hours.


Your source even concludes with "Anyone who reads this passage ought to understand why Carl Sagan, “contrary to the claims of the fundamentalists,” had no deathbed conversion to theism."
edit on 17-3-2015 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2015 @ 07:44 PM
link   
a reply to: AinElohim
Carl Sagan did not convert to anything on his deathbed. Certainly not Christianity...

“When my husband died, because he was so famous & known for not being a believer, many people would come up to me — it still sometimes happens — & ask me if Carl changed at the end & converted to a belief in an afterlife. They also frequently ask me if I think I will see him again. Carl faced his death with unflagging courage & never sought refuge in illusions...

Ann Druyan, talking about her husband, Carl Sagan


edit on 3/17/2015 by Klassified because: oops



posted on Mar, 17 2015 @ 07:54 PM
link   
a reply to: AinElohim

The underlying theme if you haven't read this book or went and seen the movie is that Science and Theism are pretty much one and the same...

It was not about science and theism being one and the same.

An underlying theme was faith. Believing in things one can't prove. She couldn't prove her father loved her, but she believed it to be true. At the end she couldn't prove she had contact with alien life. It was her religious friend that believed her, through faith, when no one else did.

a reply to: ketsuko

And yet, you can also read Contact and come to the conclusion that science and religion are one in a spiritual manner rather than in an atheistic manner.

God is the ultimate and first scientist.

I only saw the movie. This movie never came to any such conclusion. The finality of her meeting sentient alien life didn't conclude that. The alien basically said 'they' have been around for a long long time and even 'they' don't know in regards to 'the beginning'.

If anything this film was advocating an agnostic approach to these big questions. Not that god was the ultimate architect.

Book said otherwise?



posted on Mar, 17 2015 @ 08:01 PM
link   
He knew everything. he did not have he courage to tell US. He and several others I believe, wanted to go forward with experiences. Take for example, Peter Jennings. I am a nurse and have been in the company of people who are told they are "terminal" for the want if a better word. No matter who they were I saw some level of fear in their demeanor. Peter Jennings seemed to have none, or even sadness that he was leaving. Even Hitchings hated the that the party would go on without him. Now Michio Kaku is not telling us. After Fukushima, you could see the fear in his eyes, still he talks about "science fiction" when he knows that the facts are there. Someone, with authority acceptable to the TV watchers has to let people know the facts. Someone with the intestinal fortitude to be brave enough to follow scientists like Linus Pauling who accepted the slings and arrows for humanity. reply to: AinElohim



posted on Mar, 17 2015 @ 08:06 PM
link   
a reply to: edithgibbs
We just debunked the OP. Read the two posts above yours on the matter.

As for Hitchens and "Even Hitchings hated the that the party would go on without him.".

Let's do the quote justice and put it into context shall we:

"It will happen to all of us, that at some point you get tapped on the shoulder and told, not just that the party’s over, but slightly worse: the party’s going on — but you have to leave. And it’s going on without you. That’s the reflection that I think most upsets people about their demise. All right, then, because it might make us feel better, let’s pretend the opposite. Instead, you’ll get tapped on the shoulder and told, Great news: this party’s going on forever – and you can’t leave. You’ve got to stay; the boss says so. And he also insists that you have a good time."
~Christopher Hitchens
edit on 17-3-2015 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2015 @ 08:06 PM
link   
a reply to: AinElohim

No he never did accept that's a fallacy. Your own link even states that fact right in the first paragraph.




“Contrary to the fantasies of the fundamentalists,” Druyan writes, “there was no deathbed conversion, no last minute refuge taken in a comforting vision of a heaven or an afterlife. For Carl, what mattered most was what was true, not merely what would make us feel better.”


Sorry! everybody nailed you to the wall already and you got a hoax tag.
edit on 3/17/2015 by Kukri because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2015 @ 08:42 PM
link   

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs


Few ordinary Americans know the complex man behind the name Carl Sagan. For those wanting insight into the life and times of the man, I recommend the biography by William Poundstone entitled Carl Sagan. A through reading of the text may give you some insights into the complexity of the man. An ardent man of science, he was controversial, especially among scientists some of whom said that he crossed too many disciplines. I saw him once in Chicago lecturing after Allen J. Hynek. Hynek gave a respectable presentation on UFOs and especially the "swamp gas" incident. Sagan followed him and insisted that science had yet to be called into service to either prove or disprove the existence of alien craft either in general according to the accepted parameters of life out there and the evidence for them being here. The sightings went against every belief of science. Therefore, nothing could be accepted about them as being anything pertaining to an alien invasion, even if a mild one. There, as always in the year thereafter, his boyish looks and congenial manner infused with scientific logic won the battle--from the hard-nosed scientific side at least.

But there was a time when Sagan loved UFOs. As a undergrad in college, he was adamant about them being genuine alien craft. He spoke of them in the classes he taught. He got so concerned that the government didn't seem to be doing anything about them that he wrote a letter to the US Secretary of State about his concerns. Then a strange thing happened. He was chosen to be a member of the team on the notorious "Condon committee." It was a typical governmental whitewash of the whole UFO topic. From that time onward, Sagan strove to downplay the importance and reality of UFO reports and concentrated on trying to open the eyes of Americans and the world about what a glorious and varied Universe we lived in and how it should be explored, examined and debated so that we could come closer to understanding it and more importantly, the nature of ourselves.

He did much laudable work to that end. My study of his life originally had him as a traitor to the UFO dream as I'll call it, after he joined the Condon group. But I've changed that view to a more understanding one. He was not a real turncoat. Whether an unofficial government spokesperson for the furthering of ideas about the cosmos (which of course included his earlier interests of UFOs) or not, his goal was to first bring humanity up to a reasonable knowledge of the workings of science in our daily lives and the acceptance that maybe there was a whole lot more out there than we bargained for--and we MUST EXPLORE IT!.

He saw the enormous gap between the reality of a UFO witnessed in utmost local clarity and the starker reality of how the public all over the world and their governments were ill prepared to accept the astounding truth. He was in a position to tout UFOs better than Hynek or any others could ever do it, but he chose to ignore the obvious sightings that could cause panic and work on the necessary transition from a world where it was largely considered that man was unique, a one of the kind creature in the Universe to an acceptance, via pure scientific principles that there could be other beings out there. He did his job well. But I honestly believe that he ached to have worked more
Strangely, a new thought comes as I finish this up. Hynek eventually moved away from a simple "mechanical" version of the UFO phenomena based principally upon technology. He couldn't exactly explain what his concept was, because it was outside of science. His revised view was somewhat allied with Vallee's take on UFOs. The evidence time and time again factored in an unknown quality beyond the normal precepts of how science understands the mysteries of an unknown phenomena. Sagan, always the adamant scientist in his public life, in his novel Contact! gives us a glimpse of a reality--if I can use that word here--of a Universe that has a spiritual side that comes very close to what we are understanding more and more about a conscious universe. Some call that consciousness God. Maybe Sagan did.



posted on Apr, 9 2015 @ 04:21 AM
link   

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: AinElohim

Carl was truly a great man and a great mind.

But it is plain that his deathbed conversion to Christianity was a fiction.



As most of the deathbed conversion to Christianity that some people like to claim are true.



new topics

top topics



 
2

log in

join