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Oregon man commits no crime, but has been in jail for 900 days

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posted on Mar, 17 2015 @ 03:52 PM
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originally posted by: jude11

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: crayzeed

Despite how it appears on TV, murder investigations and trials aren't quick.

As was stated in the article, the trial was scheduled to begin today.


You mean they don't commit the crime, get arrested, charged and sentenced all within an hour of prime
time?

Jude11


Nah.

I guess you could say....

*puts on sunglasses*

Time runs out.

YYYYEEEEAAAAAAAAA




posted on Mar, 17 2015 @ 06:22 PM
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I'm reading the article and from the way it sounds the state is holding him until he testifies on the case. The man doesn't want to talk about it. Why does he have no right to remain silent?

What's worse is the state doesn't even need the testimony. Putting aside the reliability of testimony in the first place, the killer confessed. He did so precisely because he didn't want his family locked up for a crime he committed. After the man confessed the police decided they would hold the rest of his family in jail too. Even the judge in this case sees no value in the testimony of these men being held, it is purely at the prosecutors request which is for some reason being granted.
edit on 17-3-2015 by Aazadan because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2015 @ 06:35 PM
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a reply to: Aazadan

He confessed, he says, because he thought the police had taken his 5 month old son and the police didn't correct that erroneous belief. Hence why his attorneys moved to suppress his confession.

He's pled not guilty to the murder, and as far as I can tell no body has ever been found. Since he pled not guilty, and the state thinks he did it, a trial is kind of necessary.



posted on Mar, 17 2015 @ 06:46 PM
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Why not get a witness statement, sworn statement, affidavit, whatever it's called, from him? It's where the prosecutor and the witness and his attorney and others sit down and and questions are asked and answered. It holds up in court because it is a sworn statement witnessed by the persons involved. That sure as heck beats sitting in jail for years. Something doesn't pass the smell test here.

edit - ok I found it in the OPs articel

His defense attorney has tried to get Vasquez-Hernandez out, devising a plan to take his sworn statement in a deposition so a judge could free him. But Vasquez-Hernandez didn't cooperate -- either because he couldn't follow what was happening, as his attorney argues, or because he didn't want to, as the prosecution claims.


Link to OPs article


edit on 3 by AreUKiddingMe because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2015 @ 06:55 PM
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originally posted by: Shamrock6
He's pled not guilty to the murder, and as far as I can tell no body has ever been found. Since he pled not guilty, and the state thinks he did it, a trial is kind of necessary.


But even in that case, the judge has decided the testimony of these men has no value. To be perfectly honest, the judge is likely correct. Any testimony at this point could be considered coerced due to the time in prison, and considering their behavior towards a video taped deposition I don't think they're mentally competent to retell the facts as they believe them to be.


originally posted by: AreUKiddingMe
Why not get a witness statement, sworn statement, affidavit, whatever it's called, from him? It's where the prosecutor and the witness and his attorney and others sit down and and questions are asked and answered. It holds up in court because it is a sworn statement witnessed by the persons involved. That sure as heck beats sitting in jail for years. Something doesn't pass the smell test here.


They tried, all the man did is say he did nothing wrong and ask why he was being held in jail. From all accounts it seems like the man doesn't understand our justice system and has no intent in learning it. Even with his lawyer explaining what was going on the man wasn't cooperating.
edit on 17-3-2015 by Aazadan because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2015 @ 07:18 PM
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originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: Shamrock6
He's pled not guilty to the murder, and as far as I can tell no body has ever been found. Since he pled not guilty, and the state thinks he did it, a trial is kind of necessary.


But even in that case, the judge has decided the testimony of these men has no value. To be perfectly honest, the judge is likely correct. Any testimony at this point could be considered coerced due to the time in prison, and considering their behavior towards a video taped deposition I don't think they're mentally competent to retell the facts as they believe them to be.


originally posted by: AreUKiddingMe
Why not get a witness statement, sworn statement, affidavit, whatever it's called, from him? It's where the prosecutor and the witness and his attorney and others sit down and and questions are asked and answered. It holds up in court because it is a sworn statement witnessed by the persons involved. That sure as heck beats sitting in jail for years. Something doesn't pass the smell test here.


They tried, all the man did is say he did nothing wrong and ask why he was being held in jail. From all accounts it seems like the man doesn't understand our justice system and has no intent in learning it. Even with his lawyer explaining what was going on the man wasn't cooperating.


No, the judge told attorneys he felt the testimony would not benefit the prosecution at trial, as in there was nothing to be gained, in his opinion, in continuing to force the men to testify at trial instead of the video depositions that had been requested.

The son was mentally competent enough, according to both the judge and a doctor, to testify that his brother told him he had killed the victim. Apparently he's mentally competent enough.



posted on Mar, 18 2015 @ 02:02 AM
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originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
I don't understand.

Why is the witness in jail?



And definitions given such as people complaining and it shouldn't exceed 2 years?

??????? LIKE WHAT ARE THEY TALKING ABOUT. WITNESSES DON'T GO TO JAIL AND IF IT EVER HAPPENED I'D BLOW THE JAIL UP.

ABSOLUTELY WILL NOT ACCEPT THIS LEVEL OF ABUSE AND CORRUPTION.



posted on Mar, 18 2015 @ 02:38 AM
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a reply to: Shamrock6




The son was mentally competent enough, according to both the judge and a doctor,


Let me get this straight...in your world if a judge and doctor say it is it must be...end of story ?



posted on Mar, 18 2015 @ 05:50 AM
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originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: Shamrock6




The son was mentally competent enough, according to both the judge and a doctor,


Let me get this straight...in your world if a judge and doctor say it is it must be...end of story ?


I live on earth, where are you chiming in from?

I'm pretty certain that I specifically referenced this case, this instance, this individual. No need to try and spin that in to a blanket statement of support for the justice system, every doctor, and every judge. That would ignore the other statement I made, in my very first comment here, about how the length of detainment is mind boggling.

I say what I mean. Good try though.



posted on Mar, 18 2015 @ 07:19 AM
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originally posted by: Aazadan
I'm reading the article and from the way it sounds the state is holding him until he testifies on the case. The man doesn't want to talk about it. Why does he have no right to remain silent?

What's worse is the state doesn't even need the testimony. Putting aside the reliability of testimony in the first place, the killer confessed. He did so precisely because he didn't want his family locked up for a crime he committed. After the man confessed the police decided they would hold the rest of his family in jail too. Even the judge in this case sees no value in the testimony of these men being held, it is purely at the prosecutors request which is for some reason being granted.


I guess in The " land of the free" you have the right to remain silent......... In jail.



posted on Mar, 18 2015 @ 07:33 AM
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a reply to: crazyewok

if you're going to keep using the term "land of the free" so condescendingly, you really should learn some of the laws you keep using it in reference to before using it.

Miranda Warnings aren't given to witnesses. But I'm sure you knew that.



posted on Mar, 18 2015 @ 07:37 AM
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a reply to: Shamrock6




Miranda Warnings aren't given to witnesses. But I'm sure you knew that.


If people can be kept locked up for refusing to be witnesses, perhaps it's time they were?



posted on Mar, 18 2015 @ 07:52 AM
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originally posted by: IvanAstikov
a reply to: Shamrock6




Miranda Warnings aren't given to witnesses. But I'm sure you knew that.


If people can be kept locked up for refusing to be witnesses, perhaps it's time they were?



Since the Miranda warning pertains to suspects, I would say no. But since the law is used by the Fed to detain people indefinitely for no real reason other than to have them detained, I think the law itself should be revisited.



posted on Mar, 18 2015 @ 07:56 AM
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originally posted by: Shamrock6


Miranda Warnings aren't given to witnesses. But I'm sure you knew that.



How very "free" of you



posted on Mar, 18 2015 @ 07:59 AM
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originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: crayzeed

Despite how it appears on TV, murder investigations and trials aren't quick.

As was stated in the article, the trial was scheduled to begin today.


And that's certainly not the fault of the innocent man who's had almost three years of his limited life stolen from him.

This is insane, an innocent man having years of his life stolen, locked in a cage like an animal by a system that's inept, racist, backward, corrupt and pretty much just downright criminal.

It staggers me that the US has the balls to preach to the rest of the world about what's right and wrong, all while they run the worlds biggest system of slavery under the guise of "imprisonment". Check the list of things all those millions of inmates make for the country - all your country did was move the slave trade from fields to prison cells.



posted on Mar, 18 2015 @ 08:02 AM
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originally posted by: jude11
It's time for him to say that due to the stress of his extended incarceration he has forgotten any and all relevant information pertaining to the case.

Jude11


indeed.

However, the rabbit just begins there, here in Oregon...being on the front-lines sorta speak ..



posted on Mar, 18 2015 @ 08:04 AM
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It staggers me that the US has the balls to preach to the rest of the world about what's right and wrong, all while they run the worlds biggest system of slavery under the guise of "imprisonment"


Try telling that to the republicans insisting that Guantanamo Bay is a necessary evil.



posted on Mar, 18 2015 @ 08:07 AM
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a reply to: Anyafaj

Woa hang on a sec, not only is he in jail for an unkown amount of time, but theres BAIL to get out !!!!?

How on earth is that justice in any way, for actually HELPING a case, what on earth does that say to other potential witnesses?

"Witness a crime? Help us put the bad guys away, though we will jail you unless you have a big sack of money..." seriously so , so messed up!



posted on Mar, 18 2015 @ 08:25 AM
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a reply to: Char-Lee

A speedy trial yes, but he is only a witness, it's not his trial !

Sound like someones protecting someone else, and leaving the witness who might give it away to rot in prison, and his lawer is probably in on it too.



posted on Mar, 18 2015 @ 08:28 AM
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as someone who lived for ten years in the county in question. washington county. take it from me the whole justice system there is horribly corrupt. i was once jailed for 7 days because i missed a court date over a traffic citation. the court was 40 miles from my registered address. i had no car or license or job. there is no public transit reaching between the court i needed and my residence. when i called them before hand i was told not showing would just assume the heaviest fine. which i resolved to pay. but instead was issued a warrant and arrested. this ended up involving 4 counties 4 prisons in 7 days of incarceration. i was released after the fine was paid WHICH I HAD PLANNED TO DO ANYWAY! im certain the expensess cost more then the money i gave them.

i am close too 3 people that i know of who are involed in completely seperate class action lawsuits against washington county. the corruption and money grubbing tactics of that county are so outraggeous its a standing joke with all the locals of all generations. everytime the topic is broached i witnessed the same reaction wether from my peers, elders, or even the teens. everyone thats lived in that county long enough tends to agree. the justice system in washington county oregon are milking every dime they can from every chance they can get. and they couldnt give a damn about actual justice.


and people miranda rights are not given to you only if you are being charged or arrested. miranda rights are inately endowed upon all of us. the police are merely obligated to warn you a reminder of them when arresting you. this man should have the right to remain silent regardless that he isnt being charged.

his public defender is likely in cohoots with the judge and prosecutor. ive witnessed it a couple times with friends and family going through washington county courts. your essentialy always screwed if you dont pay for your own.




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