Thousands of snow geese die-in air! Another BS excuse laid out.

originally posted by: EndOfDays77
Methane poisoning due to plate movement! seems the dis info and vivid imaginations are rife..

poleshift.ning.com...

LOL....yes, because methane poisoning due to plate shifts, and the site you just linked to are all very grounded and sound ideas for what really occurred.

Bird disease doesn't take a vivid imagination....it happens and has happened and will continue to happen.

You think 2000 birds flew threw a methane cloud and just died? Methane doesn't kill that fast...they would have been through a methane cloud in a matter of seconds. I can guarantee you this was NOT methane.

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: jude11

originally posted by: Vasa Croe
Guessing you are talking about this story?

Source

MUD LAKE, Idaho (AP) — Wildlife officials say 2,000 migrating snow geese have died in eastern Idaho, likely from a disease that can cause birds to die in midflight and drop out of the sky.

The Idaho Department of Fish and Game says staff and volunteers collected the dead birds over the past several days at wildlife management areas near the towns of Terreton and Roberts. They say the cause of death likely was avian cholera.

Though it appears that this CAN kill in mid flight in large numbers.

Not buying it.

All healthy enough to take flight at the same time and then die at the same time? Too perfect.

Nope, ain't buying it at all.

Jude11

Except… and no I don't have a link. Just remember reading this once. They all fly to the lead bird navigating. Their flight time is dependent on food reserves in their bodies, (a narrowly defined margin). If the lead bird gets lost they will still fly… until they drop from the sky literally, from hunger and or exhaustion. Or if they left on migration or on that leg without sufficient reserves…

that kind of thing.

This could speak to toxins in the environment interfering with their navigation or problems with sources of food in their natural habitat. This could also point to changes in their "climate" as well, or some of both. Besides the lead navigator being lost, I mean.

They don't drop dead all at once like some switch, but pretty close.

I'm only speaking from what I remember, I got no proof in this case whats caused it.

I actually remember reading something like this as well. But, when a lead goose drops out or gets tired, he falls back to take advantage of drag thus getting a rest and the next in line steps up.

Here's a link:

www.worldanimalfoundation.net...

Peace

originally posted by: Thecakeisalie
a reply to: Vasa Croe

Aw damn...Here I was hoping for people to start blaming Wind turbines and pollutants when it was just a bout of avian cholera. Just wait-any alarmist reporter worth his salt knows that animals are going to be the death of us all.

"First it was bird flu, then it was swine flu. Now a new threat has emerged that has experts worried. Find out how to protect your family from the Avian Cholera outbreak after these messages."

Mandatory vaccinations against Goose Bites?

Sounds about right.

Jude11

The geese travel in flocks and set down on large lakes and impoundments to feed and drink before continuing on the trip. They are probably infected at one of these rest sites, and all at the same time. The birds incubate the disease simultaneously and consequently fall dead at near the same time.

Go to the link and see how there are currently 100,000 snow geese on one lake within 20 miles of my location.
Middle Creek

Idaho is so awesome.
Watch this geology video.

www.youtube.com...

I have been watching Idaho very closely. At first, I was sure there was more to the story than just some bacteria. But, after reading up on avian cholera, wiki cites Snow Geese specifically as have a "chronic" form. I think Mud Lake is the key. A very likely breeding ground.

Heck, I was ready to blame a volcano. But, when there is lots of evidence, you have to take it for what's it's really worth. I found the image of geese falling from the air very disturbing. Kinda like New Year's Eve in Bebee Arkansas. The truth is that geese will fly themselves to death, and the disease is fast acting, usually taking only a few hours.

Did you know that Idaho could have a volcanic eruption? They have them every 2000 years or so and it's been 2000 years or so. Hmmm.

originally posted by: Silcone Synapse
Over a body of water?

Methane release maybe?

I read this in my news surf this morning and that is the first thing that came to mind.
It is a much better explanation then fireworks :-)

Regards, Iwinder

a reply to: jude11

I'm with you.

Seems like an absurd explanation. If that were the case, you'd think they would do one or a few at a time, over a distance traveled, not just boom - all fall at once.

I found it odd that they burned all the bodies and presumed it was avian cholera. Shouldn't they have done tests on at least a couple to get a definitive answer?

I just reread the article. I guess they are conducting tests.

originally posted by: nonspecific
I seem to remember a few years ago there were a lot of these "mass die outs" reported and discussed here on ATS.

I don't know if they stopped happening or if they continued and people just stopped talking about it though.

Mass die offs due to disease or environmental causes have always been happening. It used to be they would only be mentioned in local news, but the Internet and the information overload has changed that.

Whenever the media notice its a trending topic, they seek out the stories that have always been there and put them front and center for obvious reasons. When interest dies out so do the stories, but the die offs continue.

These things have been happening since long before the first human walked the earth.

Birds will do whatever it takes to delay showing sings of illness for as long as possible, so they will quite likely fly until they drop if it means disguising how ill they are. A bacteria that can kill in 6 to 12 hours would not make enough of a dent in their physical condition to stop an otherwise healthy bird before it dropped.

A disease that can kill so many individual birds at the same time in mid flight?

That is very hard to believe.

All symptons and incubation periods all converging at the same time to cause death for all at the same time is pure BS

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed
A disease that can kill so many individual birds at the same time in mid flight?

That is very hard to believe.

All symptons and incubation periods all converging at the same time to cause death for all at the same time is pure BS

So, like was said earlier, if they are all migrating together, all stop at the same place to rest and drink then take flight again, all having picked up the same disease at the same time from the last stop, and this thing having a fairly definitive incubation time and well known in snow geese, then you think it's odd they all died at almost the same time?

Not sure I follow your logic. There are known incubation periods for this disease and specifically in this goose because this exact thing has occurred before more than once. It's not methane....if that were the case then all 2000 of them dying midflight would be VERY odd....a bird can fly through a methane pocket without dying pretty easily....all 2000 of them would have to have a pretty lengthy exposure in order to kill them all at once.

In this case, avian cholera seems like a very reasonable cause and has happened previously so rather than conjecture on something it is a known cause for this activity.

a reply to: Vasa Croe

In this case, avian cholera seems like a very reasonable cause and has happened previously so rather than conjecture on something it is a known cause for this activity.

Got a link? Avian Cholera seems like reaching for an answer to stop the questions. Has it even been established that the birds were infact infected with this disease?

These types of bold claims require a little more than hearsay!!!

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed
A disease that can kill so many individual birds at the same time in mid flight?

That is very hard to believe.

All symptons and incubation periods all converging at the same time to cause death for all at the same time is pure BS

So, like was said earlier, if they are all migrating together, all stop at the same place to rest and drink then take flight again, all having picked up the same disease at the same time from the last stop, and this thing having a fairly definitive incubation time and well known in snow geese, then you think it's odd they all died at almost the same time?

Not sure I follow your logic. There are known incubation periods for this disease and specifically in this goose because this exact thing has occurred before more than once. It's not methane....if that were the case then all 2000 of them dying midflight would be VERY odd....a bird can fly through a methane pocket without dying pretty easily....all 2000 of them would have to have a pretty lengthy exposure in order to kill them all at once.

In this case, avian cholera seems like a very reasonable cause and has happened previously so rather than conjecture on something it is a known cause for this activity.

Metabolism and such things like that are different slightly enough, and a birds individual ability to fight off infections, the health of the birds compared to each other, their individual immune systems status and effectiveness, etc. All play a part in these birds lives, and I just see that these birds can't just all drop dead at the same time.

I have a good idea to find out if this is true or not, and I will go ask a veterinarian and see what they say.

I'll report back soon what I find out.

a reply to: Vasa Croe

Hi Vasa Croe,

Just wanted to jump in here and say that I do agree with what you are saying.

I guess some of us do think conspiracy because of the BeBe events.

If I read the article correct they did say they were testing.

originally posted by: olaru12
a reply to: Vasa Croe

In this case, avian cholera seems like a very reasonable cause and has happened previously so rather than conjecture on something it is a known cause for this activity.

Got a link? Avian Cholera seems like reaching for an answer to stop the questions. Has it even been established that the birds were infact infected with this disease?

These types of bold claims require a little more than hearsay!!!

I posted a link earlier in the thread that specifically references snow geese as well.

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed
A disease that can kill so many individual birds at the same time in mid flight?

That is very hard to believe.

All symptons and incubation periods all converging at the same time to cause death for all at the same time is pure BS

So, like was said earlier, if they are all migrating together, all stop at the same place to rest and drink then take flight again, all having picked up the same disease at the same time from the last stop, and this thing having a fairly definitive incubation time and well known in snow geese, then you think it's odd they all died at almost the same time?

Not sure I follow your logic. There are known incubation periods for this disease and specifically in this goose because this exact thing has occurred before more than once. It's not methane....if that were the case then all 2000 of them dying midflight would be VERY odd....a bird can fly through a methane pocket without dying pretty easily....all 2000 of them would have to have a pretty lengthy exposure in order to kill them all at once.

In this case, avian cholera seems like a very reasonable cause and has happened previously so rather than conjecture on something it is a known cause for this activity.

Metabolism and such things like that are different slightly enough, and a birds individual ability to fight off infections, the health of the birds compared to each other, their individual immune systems status and effectiveness, etc. All play a part in these birds lives, and I just see that these birds can't just all drop dead at the same time.

I have a good idea to find out if this is true or not, and I will go ask a veterinarian and see what they say.

I'll report back soon what I find out.

Unless your vet has specifically studied migratory birds and bird illnesses it will likely only lead you back to your earlier thoughts.

The link I posted earlier talks specifically about cholera and it relates to these specific geese. Even the original article references it. There are even other cases of this. Not really sure there is any more I can do to "show" anyone at this point.

One thing that has not been mentioned is the likelihood this was a VERY small portion of the actual flock. The flock in the tens of thousands....2000 dying is not some huge deal.

Just search a bit on pics of flocks and flock info and you can see what I'm talking about.

originally posted by: Vasa Croe
According to wiki:

Chronic infection has been demonstrated in Snow Geese, and these individuals are believed to be long term migrating reservoirs for the disease. Once the bacteria gets introduced into a population of susceptible birds, an outbreak of acute avian cholera follows. Infected birds will die 6–12 hours after contracting the bacterium, and very few ill birds have been described.[8] Due to association and dense aggregations, waterfowl are most commonly affected by P. multocida, however scavengers and other water birds are often affected in large multi-species outbreaks.[9]

Source

So it is common enough in snow geese to be mentioned in wiki, and apparently kills within 6-12 hours. If they were all flying and had the disease during migration, then I could see how a couple thousand would drop out of the sky.

That's a 6 hour difference. I get where you're coming from but all 2000 birds would not have dealt and died from the disease at the same time. Some may live longer. Others shorter.

I could be way off, but if say, one of the birds flew for an extra 3 hours and died - would it be counted in the 2000? Is there more than 2000? (of course, im presuming 2000 to be the estimate) But still, if this disease kills within a 6 hour span of time that's a lot of space to be covered. And for all to drop dead within such close proximity does still seem strange to me.