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What will happen to Christianity when we finally confirm ET?

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posted on Mar, 20 2015 @ 03:32 AM
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originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
I'm not going to derail further with this.


Good, I was tired of your derail too.




posted on Mar, 20 2015 @ 03:37 AM
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quit rippin on each other and answer the frickin question in the OP... lol

IF you have already get off the line so others can respond...

give each other a hug and a hand shake and move on...

geez guys...



posted on Mar, 20 2015 @ 03:48 AM
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a reply to: Akragon

I wouldn't need to defend myself if that guy wasn't attacking my posts page after page. I don't know what I did to him?



posted on Mar, 20 2015 @ 03:56 AM
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a reply to: Akragon

My love, affection, admiration, trust, and friendship is conditional. I don't just hand them out freely. Hugs and handshakes included.

My thoughts towards the OP have been expressed. Recently a member called me out on that as if I hadn't expressed them. I have.

Genesis is most definitely at odds with alien life. Since Genesis makes no mention, during the parts where it would be pertinent to do so, of other planets. Additionally, although this is arguably done because it was contextual to Earth, there is no mention of the creation of life outside Earth.

This isn't explicitly saying aliens don't exist. But of course the Bible doesn't explicitly address the vast majority of things we know to exist on Earth and elsewhere. As I said before regarding that:


So sure you can fill in the gaps on behalf of the Bible if you’d like. Of course your god knew about other planets and alien life. He made it after all, right? Bible makes no mention of black holes either. No problem. God made them too. Nothing needs to be mentioned in the Bible explicitly when god made everything and knows everything.

This line of thinking works wonders for religious belief. Absolutely no argument can be brought forth about why the Bible fails to mention something. None whatsoever. The Bible will always be justified because this god is omnipotent and omniscient.



I don't know what I did to him?

Says the person who's posts largely contain ad hominems. Heh. Whatever. Such the victim. And I am the sore loser. Heh.



posted on Mar, 20 2015 @ 03:58 AM
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a reply to: Develo

Well you both need to settle it via Private message...

Whatever the issues are between you two need to be discussed... clearly...

So make a thread on said issues and figure it out there... or take it to the one vs one realm...

please...

ty

a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

I appreciate all of that my friend...

But this isn't the place for quarrels...

it is the rules of this forum to stick to the OP subject matter as much as possible...

you know that just as much as your opponent


edit on 20-3-2015 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 20 2015 @ 04:02 AM
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a reply to: Akragon

But this isn't the place for quarrels...

I thought I was debating.

Off topic. I admit to.

Although not entirely since the whole argument sprung from the belief 'most Christians' thought one way towards the OP...it was that I was challenging to begin with.
edit on 20-3-2015 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 20 2015 @ 04:05 AM
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a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

The question isn't really a debate...

More or less looking for opinions...in which all are welcome

perhaps to weed out a disease that has afflicted Christianity

That being... intolerance...


Although not entirely since the whole argument sprung from the belief 'most Christians' thought one way towards the OP


Notice though... Most Christians are not fundamentalists... which was defined in the OP


edit on 20-3-2015 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 20 2015 @ 04:13 AM
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a reply to: Akragon

Most Christians are not fundamentalists

I haven't been taking the position one way or another. I don't see any reason to believe we know definitively the answer to that one way or another. Do you? Can you substantiate the claim most Christians are not? Half are? 25%? Can we not honestly agree that assessing this question is so difficult as to render uncertainty a given?

I offered my personal experience that a significant amount of Christians I have come across take Genesis literally. On ATS, yes. Also on many other online sites. What has been your experience from Christians on ATS and elsewhere?
edit on 20-3-2015 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 20 2015 @ 04:23 AM
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a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

I agree... but from what we have seen, at least in this thread most take the position that ET does not invalidate Christianity in any way... only a few take the position that such things are part of some "great deception"

admittedly Genesis says nothing about Aliens or ET... but it also does not deny it...

This thread was simply a thought that I decided to post, looking for replies of all and any kind...

We will eventually find out that ET exists without a doubt... its been confirmed already, its just not a universal fact... and honestly... IF you were an alien looking down at us... would you want to say Hello?

I sure as hell would not... we are a disgusting pathetic species, bent on our own destruction... ruled by the rich

But there is love... and where there is love there is hope...

I am afraid that when said ET life finally decides to make itself known... they will be labeled as hostile... labeled as the enemy before we even know anything about their intentions




posted on Mar, 20 2015 @ 04:32 AM
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a reply to: Akragon

I agree… but

But? You said in your OP:

"Extra terrestrial life is not compatible with Christianity"


from what we have seen, at least in this thread most take the position that ET does not invalidate Christianity in any way.

Their sentiments are one thing. The implications of scripture another.


admittedly Genesis says nothing about Aliens or ET... but it also does not deny it…

Agreed. I just shared my thoughts on that.


I am afraid that when said ET life finally decides to make itself known... they will be labeled as hostile... labeled as the enemy before we even know anything about their intentions

That I full heartedly agree with.

Quoting myself from earlier again:


As for your comment about aliens and freaking out. We won’t know until it happens. Of course non-religious people might freak out as well. Even if the aliens don’t appear malevolent at all. Yes, the unknown is scary for everyone.

However considering central to religious belief is ‘end times’ and ‘angels and demons’… it would not surprise me at all if they viewed the arrival of aliens through a religious lens. Framing them in that way would result in a mindset not easily swayed. I don’t think anything good would come of it.



This thread was simply a thought that I decided to post, looking for replies of all and any kind...

I hope my thoughts qualify and are appreciated

edit on 20-3-2015 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 20 2015 @ 04:34 AM
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a reply to: Lucid Lunacy


What has been your experience from Christians on ATS and elsewhere?


Trust me...

My experiences with Christians has not been a pleasant one...

especially recently




But? You said in your OP:

"Extra terrestrial life is not compatible with Christianity"


read the second line.. it specifically defines it as a fundamentalist issue


I hope my thoughts qualify and are appreciated


of course...

always


edit on 20-3-2015 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 20 2015 @ 04:40 AM
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a reply to: Akragon

Well yeah. I'm not arguing it isn't ultimately an issue of fundamentalism.

Those religious people who do take it allegorically, metaphorically, or what have you - would be exempt from such concerns.

*Edit: might have confused matters with a double negative. If I did then blast it all! You know what I mean.
edit on 20-3-2015 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 20 2015 @ 04:48 AM
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originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
a reply to: Akragon

Well yeah. I'm not arguing it isn't ultimately an issue of fundamentalism.

Those religious people who do take it allegorically, metaphorically, or what have you - would be exempt from such concerns.


100% agree.

I think if you summarize my posts in this thread it would read:

Aliens are only a challenge to fundamentalism (and Christian fundamentalism has a US-centric history as seen here www.britannica.com...)

Even the pope entertained the idea of aliens years ago.


There has been no shortage of Christians posting in the thread saying they have no issue with the concept of aliens and that the bible doesn't deny their existence in any way.



I think we reached a consensus here



posted on Mar, 20 2015 @ 04:59 AM
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a reply to: Develo
Substantiate that fundamentalism itself is US centric. Historically that a literalist view originated there. Substantiate your claim that Creationism is only found in the US. That was a claim you made.

No consensus has been met on those points.


There has been no shortage of Christians posting in the thread saying they have no issue

I don't get it, man. You dismiss my experience of ATS and then you use it yourself in defense of your argument.
edit on 20-3-2015 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 20 2015 @ 05:08 AM
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originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
a reply to: Develo
Substantiate that fundamentalism itself is US centric.


Why don't you simply read the Encyclopedia Britannica article I linked already 3-4 times?

You keep asking the same question I already answered.

Pick another target, I thought you were done with me.
edit on 20-3-2015 by Develo because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 20 2015 @ 05:11 AM
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It is fully compatible to Christianity, Islam and Judaism, since the Bible talks in most clear way of ET - Ezekiel 1. (and pls read it!)

It is further compatible with Jesus Christ because He himself talks to angels and is served by them. He also talked to the devil (evil ET).

Unless we adopt a wider view for a cosmos consisting of trillions galaxies, we will never move beyond Galileo times' paradigm of the Roman Church. Since then, it changed btw, but not the minds of the people. Regardless of their denominations.

What will happen when the ET finally come? First of all, I'd wish them come sooner before the last generation dies off.

Unfortunately, many religious leaders of smaller congregations will be fast to say anathema and other demonization words for those who most likely come to help us in the name of the Lord (blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord - does not refer to the Lord himself but to someone who comes in His name).

If the ET offer rescue way out of the planet, i.e. rapture, many church believers will find themselves left behind - because of their stupidity and fanaticism. Well that might be pre-programmed as part of the chastisement. Because we know the pharisees are too many today and all the time. I am sorry for the sincere humble people who lack the basic understanding to make difference between Moon and Mars. Because if they could do as much, they would assume God can and did create other habitable places, planets, and also creatures than the Earth. But they prefer to deny everything in the name of self-assumed truth that doesn't correspond to the best of the theologians' teachings throughout the centuries. Because the best of them, like Thomas Aquinas, left the door open regarding the possibility of life in the Universe. In fact, he wanted to close that door, but those texts were banned by the wiser pope at that time, and he accepted that Church teaching as truth - that no one not even he can deny the creativity of God regarding other worlds.

Unfortunately, that same Church that made Aquinas' texts open to that possibility, later burned Giordano Bruno for saying the same. Thanks God, today that same Church behaves different. Let see how much different and how many of its leading members. Because what I see today are a handful of jesuits who speak like that and all the others keeping deepest silence on the matter. Let remember the esteemed hierarchies, that even only one bishops is able to give succession to the church of Jesus Christ (regardless of names today) if we talk of a rapture-like salvation in spaceships.

Even catholic prophets of today started talking of a rapture. Ref. John Leary talking of bubbles filled with air in which the refugees will find salvation in the space. Well his knowledge reached that far and I don't blame him for that.

I blame those whose knowledge is bigger and who still deny in 21st century basic truths. As for example, Mars had oceans, finally NASA admitted. So what? it means there was life on Mars the time the dinosaurs walked the earth. Or this is not in the Bible? Sure it is not - Moses was born later after the Flood. He has the excuse not to know it at his time. We don't.
edit on 20-3-2015 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 20 2015 @ 05:15 AM
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originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy

I don't get it, man. You dismiss my experience of ATS and then you use it yourself in defense of your argument.


I wasn't using to defend my argument.

My argument is proved by numbers posted since pages already.



posted on Mar, 20 2015 @ 05:38 AM
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a reply to: Develo

Pick another target, I thought you were done with me.

You're right. My mistake. I am. Can you stop addressing me?


My argument is proved by numbers posted since pages already.

That sentence made no sense.
edit on 20-3-2015 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 20 2015 @ 05:40 AM
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originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
a reply to: Develo

Pick another target, I thought you were done with me.

You're right. My mistake. I am. Can you stop addressing me?


I wasn't asking you anything in that post. You felt the urge to answer it.



posted on Mar, 20 2015 @ 08:58 AM
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a reply to: Akragon

You know, it is really funny. For many years Christians were taught to be skeptics. That's why you left Christianity, because you are skeptic. But it is the same idea, the Christians who are skeptics of UFOs are the same skeptics you decry for being skeptics, but you yourself are a skeptic and I didn't say of UFOs. But why are you permitted your own type of fundamentalism and skepticism, but others are not?

Fundamentalists are skeptics by nature, they only believe what they want to believe. Already you have demonstrated that you are skeptical of Genesis, simply because you don't know how to accommodate aliens and UFOS into a book that you are skeptical of in the first place. And through that skepticism, you find it difficult to admit anything else in the Bible can be real or relevant either. But you are fundamentalist in that skepticism. That's why your experience with "Christians" are viewed by you as unpleasant. We seem to not fit your paradigm of how you believe the world, God and the Bible should be.

Other Christians and I have said it is not incompatible with Christianity, we have offered our views on why it is not. Perhaps you are alarmed that by our admission of acknowledgement of things in the universe that we are the death knell of skepticism. If it can be true and it can be admitted, then there are other things that would be shown true, thus ending your skepticism.

You are the same as Charles Taze Russel, Ellen G. White, William Branham and many others. You are fundamentalist because you believe only what you want to believe and expect other Christians to believe you, but we are skeptical of you because you keep posting things from the Bible to make your claims and are adamant about it. That makes you a fundamentalist.

Nehemiah describes a nuclear explosion. Nehemiah also describes nuclear warheads, jets and rockets. But I suppose it would be too difficult to accept because he doesn't use modern terminology. The Trinity, you say it cannot be because the Bible doesn't use the word. Well, people also thought the word rapture wasn't in the Bible, but it was in the Latin Vulgate. You do know that the word rapture simply means "to be carried away". Wait, that is exactly what the Bible says.

Jesus said to Mary and Martha "Thy brother sleepeth". He was dead four days and already wrapped up according to Jewish tradition. But then Jesus said "Do you believe thy brother shall live?" To which they replied "Yes, in the resurrection of the dead". So they believed back then there was going to be a resurrection of the dead in which all people in the graves would come out. That's what Paul taught as well. And since Enoch, which was referenced by quote in Jude, said that he saw the Lord's return (notice it says return, the Lord hadn't come yet), with ten thousands of His saints, to execute judgment.

Who are these saints? Are they angels? Are they ETs? No, they are those who were called out of the graves and were carried away (raptured).

Jesus said "I am the resurrection and the life, he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live". That's a pretty bold claim for someone who was just the Son and just a man. I would assume that because you are just a man, that there is resurrection and life you can offer to someone else, the type of resurrection and life that one day means that you can come back and take to your place those who were formerly dead.

Notice though, Jesus also said "In MY father's house are many mansions". He didn't say "in OUR father's house". When he taught the disciples to pray, He said "YOU say, Our Father, who art in heaven". Jesus therefore states that if His FATHER is God and that He is the Son, then His words to baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost remains true. That means that He was teaching HE is in the godhead, because He identifies with the godhead.

David also said "The Lord also said unto MY LORD, come and sit thou on my right hand until I make thy enemies thy footstool". The idea of Trinity, always there. When Solomon dedicated the temple, the Lord came down as thick smoke and filled the temple, but the same thing happened in Acts 2:4.

That Lord was the Holy Ghost that Jesus taught and believed. That was the same one that Peter then stood up and said "This is that which was spoken of by the prophet Joel". All the prophets believed the Trinity and all the prophets taught the Trinity. Regardless of which modern Church Age preacher who denies Trinity, the fact is, Trinity is ancient. Where there is a son, there is a father.



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