Wicca's New Rights under the Georgia Religious Freedom Restoration Act

Having read the article and postings the following can be stated:

1) Exploitation to the extreme. This is what is going to happen. They passed a law that is so exploitable, people are going to take advantage of such.

2) It will be challenged in court and used as a defense. Once it comes out that they are violating state law and federal law, the state will have to move again and try to either remove that law or amend it.

3) What is going to work against this, as the state will argue, will be Reynolds V. United States of America. That case will determine that such is not permissible and that poly marriages are not legal in the USA, until a federal court, and the US Supreme court over turns it.

In any case I like the fact that someone is exploiting this law and can not wait until others follow suit in ways that go beyond what the laws original intention is, and ultimately it crashes in a spectacular way.

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: nonspecific
Wicca is a relativley new "religion"

Polygamous relationships should be seperated from so called religious views and left to those involved in my opinion.

Having to use a so called religion to make a lifestlye choice seems desperate.

Christianity is a relatively new religion.

Wicca is a more modern name ---- but I'd say many of the beliefs predate Christianity.

Just sayin'

Yes but it's not wicca is it.

Wicca is a modern system created in the UK in the 1950's, It is a combination of many old folk tales and some very good poetry.

I am not saying anything against it but it is not an old religion, more of a modern new age cult.

Just sayin' does not make it something it is not.

Well, yes it is Wicca.

I got into Wicca a little bit. It is an Earth belief, but it is not just one belief.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: nonspecific
Wicca is a relativley new "religion"

Polygamous relationships should be seperated from so called religious views and left to those involved in my opinion.

Having to use a so called religion to make a lifestlye choice seems desperate.

Christianity is a relatively new religion.

Wicca is a more modern name ---- but I'd say many of the beliefs predate Christianity.

Just sayin'

Yes but it's not wicca is it.

Wicca is a modern system created in the UK in the 1950's, It is a combination of many old folk tales and some very good poetry.

I am not saying anything against it but it is not an old religion, more of a modern new age cult.

Just sayin' does not make it something it is not.

Well, yes it is Wicca.

I got into Wicca a little bit. It is an Earth belief, but it is not just one belief.

Well yes it is wicca but it certainly does not predate christianity.

As I said earlier it does not even predate world war two. It was made up by some people in the 1950's

This is the truth regardless of what faith may say. It is documented.

a reply to: nonspecific

I added a bit to my post after you responded, about the reference within the law to what "exercise of religion" means which also cited the Constitution of GA amended.

I think you're pointing directly at what I personally find absurd about laws of this sort, but I'm interested to hear what others have to say more than repeating my own thoughts.

Thanks for everyone's thoughts, btw! I'm still an ATS greenhorn when it comes to thread creation, LOL.

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: nonspecific
Wicca is a relativley new "religion"

Polygamous relationships should be seperated from so called religious views and left to those involved in my opinion.

Having to use a so called religion to make a lifestlye choice seems desperate.

I was under the impression that Wicca was @10,000 years old. Cuervo might know better since that is his area of faith.

As for the rest?

Individual rights should be paramount, at least in my humble opinion.

I got into Wicca a little bit. I'm good with an Earth belief, but I don't do rituals ---- of any kind.

My research memory has faded, so I can't honestly debate it. I'll wait for Cuervo too.

a reply to: sdcigarpig

... and see above for the references from the law to what "Exercise of Religion" technically means vis a vis the law, and the incorporation of sections of the Georgia Constitution ... which specifically references "God."

I for one am waiting with bated breath for a formal legal proof of "God."

I'll just drop this here for reference: Mother Goddess - Wiki

Several small, voluptuous figures have been found during archaeological excavations of the Upper Paleolithic, the Venus of Willendorf, perhaps, being the most famous. This sculpture is estimated to have been carved 24,000–22,000 BCE. Some archaeologists believe they were intended to represent goddesses, while others believe that they could have served some other purpose. These figurines predate, by many thousands of years, the available records of the goddesses listed below as examples of mother goddesses, so although they seem to conform to the same generic type, it is not clear whether they, indeed, were representations of a goddess or whether, if they are, there was any continuity of religion that connects them with Middle Eastern and Classical deities.

The Paleolithic period extends from 2.5 million years ago to the introduction of agriculture around 10,000 BCE. Archaeological evidence indicates that humans migrated to the Western Hemisphere before the end of the Paleolithic; so cultures around the world share its characteristics. It is the prehistoric era distinguished by the development of stone tools, and covers the greatest portion of humanity's time on Earth.

While most Paleolithic figurines are from the Upper Paleolithic period, the Venus of Berekhat Ram found at Berekhat Ram on the Golan Heights is a Middle Paleolithic artefact of the later Acheulian period and possibly was made by individuals identified as, Homo erectus.

If discussion on the age of religious beliefs seems important to determination of, say, legitimacy under this Georgia law, for my part, as long as we retain a clear relationship to the facts of the matter ... okay by me.

And for the next part of the chain:

Gerald Gardner's Homepages - Sources

Referencing "The Witch Cult in Western Europe" by Margaret Murray which was often cited as source by Gardner:

OF the ancient religion of pre-Christian Britain there are few written records, but it is contrary to all experience that a cult should die out and leave no trace immediately on the introduction of a new religion. The so-called conversion of Britain meant the conversion of the rulers only; the mass of the people continued to follow their ancient customs and beliefs with a veneer of Christian rites. The centuries brought a deepening of Christianity which, introduced from above, gradually penetrated downwards through one class after another. During this process the laws against the practice of certain heathen rites became more strict as Christianity grew in power, the Church tried her strength against 'witches' in high places and was victorious, and in the fifteenth century open war was declared against the last remains of heathenism in the famous Bull of Innocent VIII.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Yay. More legal loopholes for certain groups. Since it's pretty clear now that depending upon Religion, Wealth, Fame, Employment and Race that laws will no longer apply to everyone equally I suppose we all should just "join 'em".

Who wants to start listing all of our exemptions and privileges for the new Religion we're going to create??? We will need a name for it too. Nothing too long or complicated either and with very few to no required rituals please.

I'll start off the list of privileges I'd like to see with:

Exemption from having to start any kind of work earlier than 10am Tue. thru Thurs. with Mon. and Fri. being optional working days and weekend off in accordance to our deeply held religious belief (that will be provided in writing shortly.)

Exemption from any sort of material either physical or intellectual taken from myself for any purpose because what is mine is mine and is protected under Divine Authority.

Exemption from having to follow any authority other than the Divine Authority which I'm in connection with telepathically at all times and speaks to me inside my own head.

Feel free to add to this list as you feel is appropriate.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
I'll just drop this here for reference: Mother Goddess - Wiki

Several small, voluptuous figures have been found during archaeological excavations of the Upper Paleolithic, the Venus of Willendorf, perhaps, being the most famous. This sculpture is estimated to have been carved 24,000–22,000 BCE. Some archaeologists believe they were intended to represent goddesses, while others believe that they could have served some other purpose. These figurines predate, by many thousands of years, the available records of the goddesses listed below as examples of mother goddesses, so although they seem to conform to the same generic type, it is not clear whether they, indeed, were representations of a goddess or whether, if they are, there was any continuity of religion that connects them with Middle Eastern and Classical deities.

The Paleolithic period extends from 2.5 million years ago to the introduction of agriculture around 10,000 BCE. Archaeological evidence indicates that humans migrated to the Western Hemisphere before the end of the Paleolithic; so cultures around the world share its characteristics. It is the prehistoric era distinguished by the development of stone tools, and covers the greatest portion of humanity's time on Earth.

While most Paleolithic figurines are from the Upper Paleolithic period, the Venus of Berekhat Ram found at Berekhat Ram on the Golan Heights is a Middle Paleolithic artefact of the later Acheulian period and possibly was made by individuals identified as, Homo erectus.

If discussion on the age of religious beliefs seems important to determination of, say, legitimacy under this Georgia law, for my part, as long as we retain a clear relationship to the facts of the matter ... okay by me.

And for the next part of the chain:

Gerald Gardner's Homepages - Sources

Referencing "The Witch Cult in Western Europe" by Margaret Murray which was often cited as source by Gardner:

OF the ancient religion of pre-Christian Britain there are few written records, but it is contrary to all experience that a cult should die out and leave no trace immediately on the introduction of a new religion. The so-called conversion of Britain meant the conversion of the rulers only; the mass of the people continued to follow their ancient customs and beliefs with a veneer of Christian rites. The centuries brought a deepening of Christianity which, introduced from above, gradually penetrated downwards through one class after another. During this process the laws against the practice of certain heathen rites became more strict as Christianity grew in power, the Church tried her strength against 'witches' in high places and was victorious, and in the fifteenth century open war was declared against the last remains of heathenism in the famous Bull of Innocent VIII.

As I said no problem with wicca but as your links show certainly not an old one.

"This is a brief chronology of events surrounding Gardner's life composed by Frederic Lamond who was initiated in 1957 and knew Gardner. This page is very informative, though there are a few errors, as Lamond composed this primarily from memory. The old Beaufort House, where Lamond's notes used to be housed on Geocities, is no longer available. The link now leads to a cached copy in the Internet Archive. Lamond has since written an autobiographical account, Fifty Years of Wicca, that recounts his experiences. "

I know Wiccans who were in 3rd generation covens directly decended from Gardeners.

They sat down and re wrote some old traditions and added a lot of really nice poetry and called it wicca.

If people want to call it a religion thats there right but saying it's old is simply untrue.

a reply to: mOjOm

As a point of argument with a friend regarding what I consider to be the absurdity of virtually all religions, I concocted:

Barker Snail is the source of all creation including material, mental and emotional. Barker lives on an asteroid orbiting Proxima Centauri.

Barker completely recreates the entire universe every 15 minutes according to his perfect will.

All hail Barker Snail!

....

I argue that this is just as legitimate as any other concept of deity from any religion at any time ... and it is utterly false and made up by yours truly.

/shrug

And people wonder why our country is falling apart. Why we are going to hell in a handbasket, pardon the expression. You can't circumvent God's laws with Devil's laws and expect God to protect our country. Look at U.S. currency. It doesn't say "In Wicca we trust". No culture. We have no culture any more. Everybody wants what they want and to hell with anyone else. I say Wiccans should migrate to wherever witchcraft is is culturally acceptable, like some third world country in a remote part of Africa. Go there and practice it. After all they've been doing it there for thousands of years.....

No need for the haters to respond....talk to the hand.

a reply to: nonspecific

Would you say that Gerald Gardner qualifies as the origination point of what you're referring to as modern Wicca?

originally posted by: mOjOm
Exemption from having to follow any authority other than the Divine Authority which I'm in connection with telepathically at all times and speaks to me inside my own head.

*You are free to eat that sixth chocolate chip cookie mOjOm*

a reply to: nonspecific

They're trying to connect to their pre-Christian roots though, that's the thing, and many of their beliefs match. We might call it the perennial wisdom tradition, and it is esoteric.

So it's a little more complicated than it just being an invention of the 50's. I'm not a Wiccan and my knowledge is limited but I would imagine that they draw a lot of inspiration from the Western mystery tradition in general. Modern Witches will read Crowley and Blavatsky and probably in many cases study many different religions and traditions.

So that is one of the key differences between Wicca and other religions, it is mainly esoteric as I understand it, dealing with "magick" and spiritual practices and techniques.

The other key difference is that it is as you have rightly pointed out a reconstruction of earlier beliefs, but so much in Europe was lost, so there's definitely a difference between the ancient druids and modern practitioners, that much is obvious. There are no real clear lineages since their beliefs were persecuted by Christianity, so it's more like an attempt at reviving what was lost. But I also feel the need to point out that "witches" have existed in Europe for all this time.. so I don't think it would be unfair to say that there are some practices that have lived on for all this time. Italian witches using their period blood, the Celtic people and their fairies, gypsies all around Europe have soaked this up and one could perhaps argue that there's a somewhat clear lineage there. Personally I have some Finnish heritage and I know that they have been doing their type of folk magic for a long, long time.

Esoteric practitioners of all kinds are all doing very ancient stuff and I think that a sense of open mindedness have always permeated this demographic, it hasn't been as much about how your belief is the correct one as it has been about finding out what works and searching for the truth in many places. A holistic view that embraces the view that different wisdom traditions all express the same truth in different guises.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: nonspecific

Would you say that Gerald Gardner qualifies as the origination point of what you're referring to as modern Wicca?

As far as I know that is the whole truth of it yes.

If someone can show me otherwise I will stand corrected but I am as confidant as one can be in that.

originally posted by: AreUKiddingMe
And people wonder why our country is falling apart. Why we are going to hell in a handbasket, pardon the expression. You can't circumvent God's laws with Devil's laws and expect God to protect our country. Look at U.S. currency. It doesn't say "In Wicca we trust". No culture. We have no culture any more. Everybody wants what they want and to hell with anyone else. I say Wiccans should migrate to wherever witchcraft is is culturally acceptable, like some third world country in a remote part of Africa. Go there and practice it. After all they've been doing it there for thousands of years.....

No need for the haters to respond....talk to the hand.

After you're done talking to your hand, you should talk to the legislators in Georgia ... they are the ones that have crafted a law which elevates all religions, even ones you don't personally like, over the laws of the land.

originally posted by: AreUKiddingMe
And people wonder why our country is falling apart. Why we are going to hell in a handbasket, pardon the expression. You can't circumvent God's laws with Devil's laws and expect God to protect our country. Look at U.S. currency. It doesn't say "In Wicca we trust". No culture. We have no culture any more. Everybody wants what they want and to hell with anyone else. I say Wiccans should migrate to wherever witchcraft is is culturally acceptable, like some third world country in a remote part of Africa. Go there and practice it. After all they've been doing it there for thousands of years.....

No need for the haters to respond....talk to the hand.

So you are saying...In God we trust....only added in 1956 to money...and Christianity, written in a book by mortals yet to be proven to be such a magical device, should be the basis to tell Wiccans to hike to Africa, where Witchcraft (not Wicca) is "practiced?" We as humans ADDED IGWT to money...See the problem is, people along your belief structure do not want culture. You want YOUR culture to be the only acceptable method to live...that is not what the USA is supposed to be

As for the OP...I love this....absolutely love it. As for the member who sad his friend is taking up several religions for the multiple days off....I love that even more! I love it because it shows the absurdity of trying to make and pass laws over belief and faith as opposed to...oh I don't know...equality?

My opinion? Get government out of marriage....period...Let people be who they are and make it official in their right

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

*You are free to eat that sixth chocolate chip cookie mOjOm*

Is that a metaphor for something??? Maybe some kind of code language maybe???

I really have no idea what you mean by that???

a reply to: Gryphon66

So I gather you don't believe in freedom of religion because you don't believe in religion.

That appears to be the reason behind your OP, to ridicule anyone and everyone who belives in religion, as seen in your made up snail religion.

The constitution guarantees freedom of religion and the Georgia law is an extension of that guarantee.

Does this sum up your idea of how a nation should respond to religion since you oppose the Georgia law?

This life is where we build the eternity of the nation.
What happens to me when I die? I do not know.
One thing I do know. I will return to the earth
and will belong again to the wonderful Mother Earth.
Isn’t that enough? If only a blade of grass of a flower grows from my grave,
that is enough for me. I am happy with what I have done so far.
It was both hard and beautiful, and I am thankful for these 48 years.
And if I remain alive long enough to finish my work, I can die in peace.
Death will hold no terrors for me.

research.calvin.edu...

Sorry I just don't the get the venomous words about religious people of all kinds. Maybe the person who said the quote above understands you better.

a reply to: mOjOm

I am the telepathic voice in your head (Divine Authority).