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Those who sin are not born of God

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posted on Mar, 17 2015 @ 08:49 PM
a reply to: bb23108

John 14
20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.

Jesus ABSOLUTELY taught non-separation of any kind. The only separation that exists is within the minds of people who believe they are sinners and evil at heart, they separate themselves mentally but in reality they are always one with God just as Jesus was.

John 8
12 When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."

Matthew 5
14 "You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden.

Jesus calls himself the light of the world then equates us to himself. Jesus did not put himself on a pedestal, he taught that we are all the same, even himself.

John 2
25 He did not need any testimony about mankind, for he knew what was in each person.

Jesus knew what was in each person because he knew what was in HIMSELF. We all share the one loaf and we are all one body.

posted on Mar, 17 2015 @ 09:07 PM
a reply to: AinElohim

You are sure it is not a sin, to let someone suffer before your eyes?

You surely cannot have your immediate family as your patient...nevertheless, can you envisage a situation where you would say yes?


posted on Mar, 18 2015 @ 12:15 PM
a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Yes, Jesus' teachings were ultimately of a non-dual nature, but those esoteric matters would likely have been "reserved" for aspirants who truly prepared themselves via Jesus' exoteric teachings of loving God with the whole body-mind and others as oneself.

Even so, enough of the esoteric aspects can be seen in various passages in the Bible to demonstrate that Jesus was a great Master who initiated those prepared (through their surrender and love) into God's grace and light above - to allow them to be "born again" in God.

edit on 3/18/2015 by bb23108 because:

posted on Mar, 19 2015 @ 01:29 PM
Reading Jesus from the New Testament and Jesus the Ascended Master, the fundamental idea is to basically live like a monk, be very humble, and help whenever you can, for example, if you break someone's vase, then buy him two vases. If you only buy one, then all you've done is negated your mistake, and has not earned any positive karma. The same logic applies when you kill in self-defense(in other words, killing in self-defense is neutral. In fact, if you "got" killed unjustly, that's probably the quickest "clean" way to become god. At the very least, it will jolt your karma meter/points quite a bit.)

Basically, do as many good deeds as you can, especially if it involves money. Someone asked, but wouldn't this put them in financial difficulties? The answer is yes, but it's not a one-time process. To become god is a multiple time process, not a one-time deal. What it really comes down is that in order to go to become gods, you must suffer. If you don't want to suffer greatly, then you have to suffer slowly, and giving up money is the "quickest slow process" that doesn't involve humiliation or pain.

What you DON'T want to do is to go down to a planet worse than this, or even maintain the status quo. At the end of the day, most sins on Earth are considered small scale and will only affect your reincarnations. If we suppose that 100 karma points are required to become gods, then lying is probably worth -0.3, giving a homeless person 10% of your wealth is probably worth +3 points(note that it's the percentage of your wealth, not the total amount that matters.) If you give up your house and willing to be homeless yourself, then you get 30 points immediately. Of course, no one is actually willing to do that, but the concept is really no different from turning the other cheek, and that would truly prove that you love your neighbors.

Before people get discouraged, it should be noted that we don't actually start out at 0. We start out at 50, and right now, most of us are probably at 42, 43. In other words, most of us haven't really done anything to prove that we are "godlike," and have done mostly negative stuff, such as lying, cheating(on tests), and cursing.

Ask yourself how much time you have actually devoted to community service, how much you have cursed, bragged instead of being "civilized"(in their view, adultery is not an offense, because it involves consent, but putting down others is), how much time you'd rather spend watching TV instead of helping others, and how much money that you could have possibly given. Basically, if you only care about yourself, then you won't get rewarded, and if you keep doing negative stuff, then you know what happens when you get to 0. Basically, you get about 5-6 lifetimes to learn your lesson. And if you keep acting immorally, selfishly, then chances are, the negative karma will just keep building up, and a humiliating event occurs to you(releasing the karma, so to speak. Keep in mind that it'll probably take 3-4 lifetimes of constant lying, cheating and cursing for this to happen), so that your karma meter never actually get to 0, and instead resets to 50, unless of course, you want it to get to 0 and take THAT penalty, which believe me is not nearly as easy as it sounds(ask yourself whether you can handle burning for just a few hours, much less a month, although, I think 6 months are probably the maximum penalty here).

posted on Mar, 19 2015 @ 03:42 PM
a reply to: np6888
I cannot imagine where your karma quantifications are coming from!

How do you think it is possible for a conditional (karmic) entity to ever become god (the unconditional reality)? Only complete transcendence of all conditionality (karma - both good and bad) can allow for the realization of unconditional (non-karmic) reality itself.

edit on 3/19/2015 by bb23108 because:

posted on Mar, 19 2015 @ 06:45 PM
Haha this is a joke right?
I would love to met ONE person with the purest of heart... You clearly do not.. So don't judge. *I'm pretty sure that's a sin you sinner.*

posted on Mar, 19 2015 @ 10:58 PM
a reply to: SalientSkivvy

Ironic that you tell me not to judge yet you judge me by calling me a sinner. How can you make such a judgement based on words put on an internet forum? Unless of course you're using broad generalizations taught to you by others.

I am no sinner my friend, I love others unconditionally, something you seem unable to do based on your reply here.
edit on 3/19/2015 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

posted on Mar, 20 2015 @ 08:24 AM
a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

You are presenting and arguing technicalities

What Jesus meant by that is extreme sin

For example being part of US secret society where you rules banks government and rape children on the weekend

Not some small stuff sin

posted on Mar, 20 2015 @ 09:24 AM
a reply to: PrettyPlease1

You're creating a technicality. Jesus doesn't say "extreme" sin, he simply says sin.

posted on Mar, 20 2015 @ 09:46 AM

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
I am no sinner my friend, I love others unconditionally...

Would you care to elaborate on this? Sin means to miss the mark. So you are saying that "you" have fully realized the unconditional Divine reality (God) beyond any and all modifications? This is a most profound matter that 'en-light-ens' the whole body-mind with the fullness of Divine Love.

Or are you meaning something else when you say you are no sinner? If this request is off-topic, that is fine if you want to discuss this elsewhere or not at all.

edit on 3/20/2015 by bb23108 because:

posted on Mar, 20 2015 @ 10:28 AM
a reply to: bb23108

I do not sin, sin is to do wrong to others, I do not do any wrong to anyone. I love everyone unconditionally, how can I harm those whom I love? I see us all as one, I do not harm myself so why would I harm anyone else? If I do one I also do the other.

posted on Mar, 20 2015 @ 10:37 AM

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: bb23108

I do not sin, sin is to do wrong to others, I do not do any wrong to anyone. I love everyone unconditionally, how can I harm those whom I love? I see us all as one, I do not harm myself so why would I harm anyone else? If I do one I also do the other.

I guess it depends on how one defines sin.

I look at it this way - sin is missing the mark, or not communing always and absolutely with the Divine with the whole body-mind and all its actions.

Of course, there are degrees to sinning, but unless you are constantly communing with the Divine beyond ALL sense of separate self, you are missing the mark, even if it is very subtle.

Unless there is no missing the mark, it seems pretentious to declare one does not sin. So that is why I asked you.

edit on 3/20/2015 by bb23108 because:

posted on Mar, 20 2015 @ 11:05 AM
a reply to: bb23108

Yes, it depends on what your definition of sin is. In my definition sin is to do wrong to someone else, which is why Jesus said to love others as yourself and forgive others to become perfect, love does no harm to a neighbor. To commune with the divine is to love others unconditionally.

I believe the definition of sin has been misinterpreted. What do you consider "missing the mark" is other than not communing with the divine (which in my opinion is to love others)?

It's not pretentious to claim to love others unconditionally in my opinion. There are plenty of people who do not sin, autistic children/people are one example. They love unconditionally. There are other examples but that is the first one that came to mind. "Become like children", meaning leave ego and preconceived notions behind and love unconditionally, no matter the person.
edit on 3/20/2015 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

posted on Mar, 20 2015 @ 01:14 PM
a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Jesus didn't just say to love one's neighbor as oneself - he gave his first commandment as primary: To love God with the whole body-mind, etc. This is not just about loving one's neighbor - it is about surrendering altogether to the unconditional Divine in which all objects and apparent others appear and disappear.

Only on the basis of such surrender to God does one become infilled with Grace and therefore capable of loving one's neighbor as oneself. But the ego-I is a wily sob - so if you sense any separation at any level (physical, astral, causal), then you are still missing the mark in that manner.

There are real yogic signs to such absolute surrender/enlightenment - the body-mind is clearly infilled with the force of love, the heart is open in real feeling, real intelligence emerges, the body-mind is an integrated whole moving freely amongst all appearances, not requiring any inward search to feel better or to stimulate the feeling of being one with everything, etc.

Being one with all arising and transcending all arising is realized as one's native condition, always, when there is no missing the mark.

edit on 3/20/2015 by bb23108 because:

posted on Mar, 20 2015 @ 01:19 PM
Thanks for the cool thread!

You say that these verses are their own contexts, but that isn't true. These verses came from manuscripts, filled with a lot of other words that create the context for what you quoted.

For example, the passage you quoted out of 1 John 3 needs to be understood in light of chapters 1 and 2.

Chapter 1, verses 8-10 says, "If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us."

So, any person that says he is without sin, deceives himself.

But it gets worse for your case...

Chapter 2, verses 1-2 says, "My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world."

So, John says not to sin. However, if anyone does sin, no problem! You don't have to be a child of the devil! Turn to Jesus and He will make you a son or daughter. You don't have to be a slave to sin!

The point of the verses you quoted from 1 John is that a true believer does not go on sinning continually. A true believer will experience life change. This is not a complete removal of sin! (Remember, a person who says they are without sin deceives themselves.) Rather, it is the gradual process of sanctification, which is mentioned throughout Scripture.

Paul says, "Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst."

He does not say, 'I was the worst.' He says, 'I am the worst.'

Christians are sinners and saints.

This idea can be illustrated by considering an adopted child. The adopted child would always have the DNA of their biological parents (a Smith, Johnson, Miller, etcetera). However, they would also have a new family and a new positional identity, which would change them in many ways.

For further reading, check out Romans 7. Here's a snippet for those without a Bible handy:

"14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[c] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature[d] a slave to the law of sin."


posted on Mar, 20 2015 @ 01:42 PM
a reply to: DarkATi

And he also has this to say in chapter 2:

1 John 2
3 We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands. 4 Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person. 5 But if anyone obeys his word, love for God is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him: 6 Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did.

Those who do not do as he commanded (love God and your neighbour) do not know him. The one who claims to know him MUST live as he did, without sin.

So those who do not live as he did do not know him.

How can Christians who sin all the time claim to know him when they lead a sinful life? Jesus did not live a sinful life.

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