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Those who sin are not born of God

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posted on Mar, 16 2015 @ 05:16 PM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1


So how does the context change what is being said in any way? Do they somehow mean something else now?


I will briefly touch to some of your statements and i will bow out from your thread, since i am not in a particular good mood for theology debate, as i am not theologian.


This is not a bash thread, I am only pointing out the contradictions in Christian theology to show people the error of their ways.


Since you know the truth why should i bother explain it to you anyways ? I simply placed the verses which you quoted to their context with their links attach to it.
 

You claiming

Jesus says that those who commit sin are slaves to sin and that a slave has no permanent place in the family. This means that those who sin have no place in Jesus' family, a.k.a. no admittance into heaven.
and as a support for your statement you quoted :

John 8
34 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35 Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever.


Question 1 : To whom Jesus was referring to ?
Question 2 : In which context the sin applies to ?
Question 3 : To what sin He was referring to ?

The answer to those questions you can find on the previous verses, which you didn´t mentioned.

31So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, "If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; 32and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free." 33They answered Him, "We are Abraham's descendants and have never yet been enslaved to anyone; how is it that You say, 'You will become free '?"


Question 4: What is His Word and wants them to continue on its path ?

Question 5 : What does He means when He says "..disciples of mine.." ? And what truth does He speaks about ?

Question 6 : Are there any verse that mentions how to be a disciple ? How that ties back to the previous verse ?

That is also one of the reasons that i posted the links in their context with their commentaries and explanations. Also, there are difficult passages in the Bible to understand. But there are websites that explaining those passages in their proper context.
 

You quote

1 John 3
9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.
and you are asking

If Jesus came to destroy the work of the devil (sin) then why do Christians admit to continuing to sin? Those who are born of God do not continue to sin according to John, yet Christians admit to sinning every day.


Jesus came to destroy the work of the devil. Sin according to scripture equals death. In Genesis we read

By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return."
. Jesus removed the "curse of death" with His resurrection and reconciled man with God. That is the destruction of the devils work.

As to your second part of your statement that "Christians admit to sinning every day". Jesus gave two commandments to follow as mentioned in Matthew

Jesus answered by saying, “Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the greatest and most important commandment. The second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself. All the Law and the Prophets depend on these two commandments”


There is a site which puts it in perspective :


As Christians, we strive to love God with all our heart, soul, and mind, and as our hearts and minds are transformed by the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit we are able to begin to love others as ourselves. Yet we still fail to do so, which again drives us back to the cross of Christ and the hope of salvation that stems from the imputed righteousness of Christ and not from any merit of our own.

Source

This is the main reason why a Christian admits to sinning. So, why you are try to find contradictions when there is none ?

Peace

edit on 16-3-2015 by Seed76 because: minor corrections




posted on Mar, 16 2015 @ 05:46 PM
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a reply to: largo

You must be under the impression that I believe in the virgin birth. You'd be wrong. You obviously have no clue what I believe because everything you said is entirely off-base from what I believe.

You know what they say about assuming, it makes an ASS out of U and ME.

Thanks for playing though.



posted on Mar, 16 2015 @ 05:56 PM
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a reply to: Joecroft

In my opinion the blood of Jesus represents blood flow. When blood starts flowing, the heart is beating and thus life is in the body. When life is created it is a sign of sins from past lives being forgiven, hence the Son's blood forgives sins.

Reincarnation is the mechanism for sins being forgiven from past lives IMO. Where there is blood flowing there is life, and where there is life there is the image (Son) and also a sign that the Spirit is working within the body, which is why (IMO) you see it as a metaphor for the Spirit (as do I).

When you cut a dead body does blood come out? No, because there is no blood flow. Yes the blood it's still in the body but it will not flow out as it would with someone who is alive. When someone is dead then there is no blood/Spirit.



posted on Mar, 16 2015 @ 06:06 PM
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a reply to: Seed76

The one who follows his word is the one who does not sin. To love others is to do no wrong to them, to do no wrong to someone is to not sin against them.

To sin is to do wrong to others and to do wrong to others is not to follow his word. If Christians sin daily then they do not follow his word daily. The one who commits sin is of the devil as John says. If Christians sin as they say they do then they are of the devil.

If Jesus' death destroyed the work of Satan, which is death, then why do people still die?! If death is sin then why do Christians and others still sin?!

You're not reading the words for what they say, you're inserting your own preconceived notions into them. That's called eisegesis, inserting your own beliefs into the words.

You have yet to prove Jesus wrong, though you seem to be trying your hardest.



posted on Mar, 16 2015 @ 06:29 PM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Since apparently you do not respect my wish for not further commenting, this will be my last reply to you, as you seem quite confrontational.


If Jesus' death destroyed the work of Satan, which is death, then why do people still die?!

I am sorry, i thought you knew basic christian theology concerning death and resurrection. As to the second part of your statement people are dying because its the circle of life.

If death is sin then why do Christians and others still sin?!

Btw. its sin=death not the other way around. As to your question, i have explained that on my previous post. I have also included an external source to give you better understanding. Yet for some reason you will not.

You have yet to prove Jesus wrong, though you seem to be trying your hardest.

I am trying to state the whole truth and not half-truths as you do. If that is wrong well....

Peace
edit on 16-3-2015 by Seed76 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 16 2015 @ 06:36 PM
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a reply to: Seed76

Not confrontational at all, just discussing the topic at hand. Why post in the thread if you had no intention of discussing the topic with anyone? Seems kind of counterproductive.

Hope you have a good day and rest of the week.



posted on Mar, 17 2015 @ 03:36 AM
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originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

originally posted by: roth1
Delusional people say what?


What Jesus says apparently.
Exactly.



posted on Mar, 17 2015 @ 08:51 AM
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a reply to: roth1

Are you calling Jesus delusional?



posted on Mar, 17 2015 @ 01:09 PM
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Those who sin are not born of God

Sin - missing the mark.

It seems the most voluminous 'sin' had has been the 'sin' of mistranslation...therefore, any who follow a mistranslation...'miss the mark'.

Å99



posted on Mar, 17 2015 @ 01:57 PM
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a reply to: akushla99

There is only 1 message... "love"



posted on Mar, 17 2015 @ 02:16 PM
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originally posted by: AinElohim
a reply to: akushla99

There is only 1 message... "love"



Agreed!

Hypothetical...your wife/husband/child/very close friend who is in such extreme pain (and cannot perform the task), tells you to put them out of thier misery - are you conflicted? (Innocent question)

Å99



posted on Mar, 17 2015 @ 03:15 PM
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All men need a redeemer as we already fell short of Gods intentions for us to be a perfect image/creation...Our redeemer is Jesus...When we are judged those that believe in him get their tarnished damning life record replaced with his perfect....Thats how this works...You did not point out any contradiuction..you are misunderstanding..also what is your source you are quoting this from? ...a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1



posted on Mar, 17 2015 @ 03:42 PM
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originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: roth1

Are you calling Jesus delusional?
As much as David Koeresh



posted on Mar, 17 2015 @ 04:56 PM
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originally posted by: bb23108
a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Regarding your opening post, yes, Jesus spoke of being born of God and from that point on, you sin no more. Ideally, that would be the case - and of course, Jesus, as a great Master, would make such ultimate demands once someone was awakened in God.

He would never say after someone was reborn, "Aww shucks, just take your time, and try not to sin any more." What kind of Master would he be if that was is disposition?

But Jesus also understood that in practice, the process of "sinning no more" takes time for the whole body-mind to adapt to the Divine. In any moment that we are infilled by the Spirit of God, we love, and when we are not turned to God, we "miss the mark" (sin).

So Jesus gave his two great commandments, as a continuous blessing and reminder - and which can actually only be done when we are full of God's Grace to the point that we recognize we are not separate from God nor anyone. Only on the basis of such communion with God is the fulfillment of his commandments of love possible.

So fundamentally, being born of God is a moment to moment matter, and as such, allows us to love rather than miss the mark in each and every moment.

No time to respond to my post yet?



posted on Mar, 17 2015 @ 05:46 PM
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originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: Awen24

This is a perfect example of the error in Christian theology, using Paul to override the word of Jesus and his beloved apostle.

Paul teaches no personal responsibility, sin all you want because it's not you doing the sinning, it's the sin itself. Ignore the words that Jesus and John say, listen to Paul, he gives you a free ticket to sin even though Jesus explicitly told us not to.

You've only highlighted the divide between Jesus and Paul, you haven't proven Jesus or his words wrong. Jesus says the one who sins is a slave to it and that slaves have no place in his family, Paul says he is a slave sold to sin, contradicting Jesus blatantly.

Paul contradicts Jesus on so many things it's ridiculous.



You can only claim that if you haven't actually read any of Paul's epistles.

Romans 6:

6 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By No Means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with,[a] that we should no longer be slaves to sin— 7 because anyone who has died has been set free from sin.

8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. 10 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.

11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. 13 Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness. 14 For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.



posted on Mar, 17 2015 @ 07:42 PM
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a reply to: bb23108

Sorry, I agree with what you said. Being born of God is not instantaneous, it is a process that takes time, so I agree with you in that aspect, also that we are not separate from God or anyone else. When you come to this realization you cannot go on sinning because you know that to hurt or do wrong to someone else is to do the same to yourself.

I didn't feel like a reply was necessary since I agreed with you and starred your post. I wasn't ignoring you I promise.

edit on 3/17/2015 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2015 @ 07:51 PM
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a reply to: Awen24

Yet Paul says that sin is unavoidable whereas Jesus tells us to stop sinning, implying that sin IS avoidable.

"Shall we go on sinning? By no means! But sin is unavoidable so we shall go on sinning anyways."


Jesus said to be perfect as the heavenly Father is perfect, Paul says that it is impossible to be perfect. Paul says no one is righteous, Jesus says there are those who are righteous. Jesus says the one who hears his word but does not put them into practice is a hypocrite, Paul says that he keeps on doing evil, a.k.a. not following Jesus' words. Paul says he is a slave to sin, Jesus says slaves to sin have no place in his family.

Should I list more? I have plenty of other ones, those are just a few that pertain to the topic of the thread.



posted on Mar, 17 2015 @ 07:54 PM
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a reply to: wyrmboy12

What do you mean what is the source? It's obviously the bible. I have pointed out plenty of contradictions, you just choose not to acknowledge them for fear of being considered a blasphemer by God and being sent to hell.
edit on 3/17/2015 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2015 @ 07:58 PM
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originally posted by: akushla99

originally posted by: AinElohim
a reply to: akushla99

There is only 1 message... "love"



Agreed!

Hypothetical...your wife/husband/child/very close friend who is in such extreme pain (and cannot perform the task), tells you to put them out of thier misery - are you conflicted? (Innocent question)

Å99


Hippocrates;

"I will prescribe regimen for the good of my patients according to my ability and judgment and abstain from whatever is deleterious and mischievous. I will give no deadly medicine to anyone if asked nor give advise which may cause his death. Nor will I give a woman a pessary to procure abortion. I will preserve the purity of my life and practice my art. I will not cut for stone, even for patients in whom the disease is manifest, but will leave this operation to be done by practitioners of this art"

answer is (no)

love is the message... the rest I believe instruction?

---

Besides, we might just come to a cure faster if we didn't run around putting people out of their misery. All terminally ill patients have moments of clarity and ease of pain... it is worth it for both parties imo.

No actions are taken without a complete mental evaluation of the subject in this day and age anyway, assuming they can participate. If they can not then they should have willed the decision to a next of kin.
edit on 17-3-2015 by AinElohim because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2015 @ 08:24 PM
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originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: bb23108

Sorry, I agree with what you said. Being born of God is not instantaneous, it is a process that takes time, so I agree with you in that aspect, also that we are not separate from God or anyone else. When you come to this realization you cannot go on sinning because you know that to hurt or do wrong to someone else is to do the same to yourself.

I didn't feel like a reply was necessary since I agreed with you and starred your post. I wasn't ignoring you I promise.

Thanks! The reason I brought it forward was because I feel the esoteric aspects of Jesus' teachings and his initiating of disciples into the light of God above (their spiritual rebirth) reconciles some of the differences you were pointing to in the quotes of your opening post.

I have long felt that if many more Christians understood Jesus' esoteric meanings in his teachings, and practiced those teachings, Christianity could be transformed back to what Jesus was here to do - to bring people into direct reception of God's Grace each day, and on that basis live his two great commandments.

He clearly spoke of directly communing with God and recognizing our inherent non-separation from anyone. Unfortunately, this was not a popular message for the masses and Paul's "easy salvation" method became the norm. Paul's salvation message greatly undermined Jesus' real life message that people need to be altogether responsible for real love - and that is only truly accomplished by fully surrendering with the whole body-mind to God in love, and loving one's neighbor as oneself.

edit on 3/17/2015 by bb23108 because:



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