Optics on a Budget

VX,

This thread is just one more reminder of why you are the FSME here! I have some thoughts to add here as well, but first I wanted to heartily second the options you have suggested. Until recently I ran Lucid's on all of the 7.62x39 5.45x39 & 5.56x45 primaries in my collection. (my AT&T guns run other stuff)

However I have actually sold all but one full size and one micro, and switched to a different family of optics that were equally affordable until they became unavailable. That family is the PK-AS/PK-07V family which is primarily used by Russia and others in the local area. In some ways these are just an interim solution until the next logical steps in optics start to appear. (I'm going to be very light on specifics for the time being as far as where I see the field heading mostly because it's an area I'm slowly acquiring the tooling that makes the tooling, a large multidisciplinary library to aid my endeavors, and the contacts and knowledge I'll need to play my part....)

Now I'm going to give out one hint though... SubTruth won't like it at all because cost and quality are very much going to decouple. So anyone with the motivation and even a google fu white belt will be able to own optics that you can use as wheel chocks on a HEMTT then proceed to reach out and touch someone at 800 meters in bad light with the sun in the worst possible position. For about $350!

Until then though, and because my current optics family of choice is sparse, I'm going to offer a quick rundown on some interesting but less well known options including a variety of iron sight type options, and for those with more mechanical aptitude than cash some DIY options.

IRONS:
first up on my list is especially relevant to people who own an AK and a glock. Thefirearmblog.com had an article last week about a replacement AK rear sight... Hmmm ladder? (ok I can't remember the actual name to save my life but it's the part with the numbers and the notch roflmfao) This aftermarket ladder accepts standard windage adjustable glock rear sights and still maintains the standard range adjustment thingamajig.

Now some of you are screaming wtf why!! But honestly it really makes sense to me. Theoretically you could have a shared tritium night sight between both guns. Or maybe you hunt feral pigs and or rabid mountain lions, at this point you have two advantages. First your rear sight will be the same allowing for easier panic transition. Second, should you be somewhere very far from cabelas, you can now keep two spare rear sights and not worry that you only brought spares for the one that Murphy isn't plotting against.

TECH SIGHTS:
Reasonably priced peep sight upgrades for everything from the AKM to the Swiss k11 straight pull.

C ALL OPEN SIGHT, ZONE PLATES, & HEX SIGHT:
1. The see all open sight is like an unpowered reflex sight. Some like it others do not, and I think it has neat potential!
2. Zone plates basically upgrade a peep sight using very cool optical science. Invented at Idaho National Laboratories and primarily seen in very long range competition shooting use due to the inconsistent performance from varying light level, source, position, and etc. Personally I think these may be way more useful and important than currently believed but in a different application.
3. Hex sights are a combination of a standard peep sight with geometry based visual processing exploit that naturally makes the eye want to center the shapes and focus directly in the center of the now aligned shapes. The company makes no bones about the fact that they are intended for combat not sub-moa groups inside a dime, however what is most interesting to me is that an M.D. specializing in vision is at the center of the company. Further they are actually delving further into research that focuses on streamlining the amount of conscious and directed thought is required to acquire a potential target, identify as hostile, estimate range and windage, take aim correcting for wind and bullet drop, and fire while maintaining aim. To me that I is a very good goal.

This post has gotten long, so I'll leave DIY to another post, and if any one needs help finding information or has questions post in here or as PM and I'll respond.

a reply to: roguetechie

Iron sights are must for any serious AR or similar rifle. Truth be told I learned the hard way and did not research anything when I first started getting into guns. I lost a lot of money and time buying cheap made in China crap.



You can buy good optics for a cheap price.....Older made in Japan scopes are great glass and will hold up. The glass is made at a place called Hakko for many of these older scopes. Also ebay is a great place to buy used scopes. I have bought many scopes from ebay.......Insight MRDS...$300......Bushnell 4200 tactical elite 6-24x50.....$500......Browning Euro line 1-4.....$200.


The last scope I listed the Browning Euro is made in Japan and is a great example of a cheap scope that is as good as a $1000 one. When it comes to firearm stuff.....Scopes,accesories,cases,magazines,ammo.......Price does match quality I have found. It sucks but it is the cold hard truth. Cheap stuff fails or does not do what it supposed to do.

a reply to: SubTruth

a reply to: SubTruth

While I get your point, I honestly disagree with you completely. A decade ago I would've almost agreed with you, however I run my guns HARD and live in a climate that eats even good optics for lunch! (especially if a battery is involved oh sweet lord the batteries!!) That being said, lucid offers a pretty serious warranty and it transfers to owners beyond the first as long as you aren't dumb IF you have to call them with a problem! Guess how many calls I've had to make to Lucid? (Bearing in mind that my fleet of their products was 9 items deep consisting of 3 full size 3 micro and 3 magnifiers. Also keeping in mind that I launched the first one down a typical pacific northwest forest hillside attached to my official AK of beating the piss out of new toys to see if they're actually worth having in January on a day that's about murder on optics weather wise. A hill that btw has caused aimpoint customer service to get a call because the very high end optic I paid lots for didn't survive the ride)

If you guessed none you win!!
d
So my good version of this part just got munched by the gods, but I'll do a quick version.
1. All Chinese stuff is crap is so last decade: Short version, people said that about American and Japanese stuff too for awhile. It WAS true at one point in all three cases. Was being the operative word in that sentence, and in this case you see multiple factors actually feeding into the Chinese being capable of manufacturing and selling solidly mid level COMBAT GRADE optics and gear at prices bound to make old timers skeptical. 3 factors combine to make this happen.
1. Economies of scale and polar opposite regulatory climates: Ever hear of the Chinese government raiding norinco for violating export law? Contrast with the fact that HK gets raided at least once a year. Now throw in that Lucid probably moves more units in q1 than aimpoint does all year while paying less for labor ALL YEAR than aimpoint does in q1!
2. The firearms accessories world was, until recently, a world where charging more, made your product more in demand: Honestly the entire western firearms ecosystem was an inbred and very small world where innovation and value for a buck in the same company was a sure way to get your company targeted by this happy little family of inbred psychopaths LOL. And then YouTube and China came on the scene right as western governments already were doing a number on said ecosystem. (you don't even want to know the joys of paying 5 digit ITAR fees when your company hasn't even THOUGHT of jumping through the hoops it takes to actually get permission to do business internationally in firearms technology.) All while the Chinese were skipping 1-3 generations of bleeding edge manufacturing equipment revolutions!
3. Finally western military and police agencies have way more money than sense: Honestly certain companies supply the consumer market as an afterthought, and or, actually deliberately manufacture and sell fewer units to keep prices artificially elevated.
. f
To conclude, if you shop smart buying Chinese can actually get you much more for a fraction of the price.

I've had the Trijicon Accupoint scope installed on my AR for nearly 2 years now. I've used this scope at the range and subjected it to two winter deer hunts. It has performed flawlessly and has never lost zero. I have the V-Brite reticle which is really nice for dawn/dust when up in a tree. I'm still on the original battery! The glass is super clear and crisp. I've had plenty of scopes from Nikon, Bushnell and Weaver and Vortex is the best. The Trijicon Accupoint looks amazing and I couldn't even begin to imagine what their Viper line looks like.

www.e-arms.com...

I want to buy a scope and mount for my son - he just bought a Ruger mini 14 ranch rifle with wood stock. Seems like a good thread to ask for recommendations on the mount ?

eta: May not matter but the gun is for home defense. I know, he needs a shotty but he got a sweet deal on the mini 14 (stainless btw $300 and barrel is almost new)

a reply to: Asktheanimals

There are multiple quality red dots under $200 at this point. If it's for home defense I strongly recommend that you lean towards one with the extreme battery lives that way you can just leave it on.

a reply to: roguetechie

Scope choice is easy, it's the mount I'm worried about with a wood stock.
Guess he'll have to swap that out.

a reply to: Asktheanimals

No you don't have to ditch the wood. Check out Ultimak's line of mini-14 mounting options. They're not the cheapest but they make very solid mounts, which is very important considering some of the quirks of the mini.

Ultimak.com will let you view their current product line, but I'd highly recommend shopping around for the best price once you decide on a specific mount.

(Note: Do yourself a favor and always buy optics mounts factory new. It's not the place to cut corners)

If you check out ultimak's stuff and don't find anything to your liking, let me know and I can find you some other options.

a reply to: projectvxn

seriously, for a true budget dot, say for a plinker .22 sig saurs romeo 5 for 140 bucks is a gem

a reply to: stosh64

Vortex all the way. I recently got a crossfire, those things are the bomb. I've found a few other good ones on this site too!

a reply to: dantesshoes

I was going to go vortex on my one really pricey optic purchase that I did recently, but instead I went with a Night Force NX8 .... I love that optic!

It definitely does what i want it to do, and it's really nice being able to use it like a red dot up close and still toss long shots out to 300 & 500 meters with ease!

It seriously feels like cheating using this thing LoL.