I am Christian. If your world view is more rational than mine please come show me.

a reply to: isofakingwetoddid

It wasn't circular thought, and this is the only time I am going to compensate for your laziness. I am salty because your not trying to have a conversation. You simply want to just ask a question for some reason you feel I was avoiding... God can't forgive satan because God is the essence of good which imo entails that he is perfectly Just. If he is perfectly Just he cannot allow evil to go without judgment.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

Understood...but yes regarding me...you are wrong. I would sit in a lecture of you and your idea here along with a Diaz of all the others religions believing the very same about theirs.


And I as a lifelong Christian and studied Gnostic...I would come away with polints made...that all of them...by their beliefs....could be respected with having equal feelings needed to brought together in acceptance... that their rationales are just as valid and rational as yours.

MS
Lifelong Christian

a reply to: mysterioustranger

Understood...but yes regarding me...you are wrong. I would sit in a lecture of you and your idea here along with a Diaz of all the others religions believing the very same about theirs. And I as a lifelong Christian and studied Gnostic...I would come away with polints made...that all of them...by their beliefs....could be respected with having equal feelings needed to brought together in acceptance... that their rationales are just as valid and rational as yours.

So I am still confused. Is truth subjective in your world view?

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb

So basically the question that is being posed here is if you think Christianity is wrong, what is the better more plausible option that you have come up with.

Not so wrong than good willing but short sighted.


Borned and raised catholic. I respect EVERY religions, as long as they preach the loving/compassionate parts, as I see them as gateways to be a better soul.

We are eternal souls and we originate from the source of eternal love energy which is what we call god.

No 'bible' is stronger better holier: they are all man made from our short sighted view of the hole picture we, incarnated soul, cannot fully grasp from this perspective. Think of an ant trying to program a shuttle.

God is one eternal energy of love. He always loved you whaterver you did, do or will do: it's all Learning.

Time is an issue here in 3D but not in higher vibration realms.

We live many lives in many different realm: earth is one, according to our elevation in vibration: our loving/compassionate state.

We come in bodies to LEARN like in classrooms. We choose our lives with our big issues to learns something and advance or help other souls to advance. We cannot remember now where we're from because we wouldn't act the same way: it must feel real so we take our lessons. I often asked myself: why not just giving us the knowledge and be done with it? I answered myself being a father



So we came from the source as his 'children', learn our ways through many many different incarnations on many worlds to learn to be more compassionate/loving souls and to eventually reconnect to the source.



Jeff

Edit: Oh and I'm not better than anyone and I keep my mind open to others. Without them/closing your mind to them is like putting layers and layers of wrappers around your head. I learned through my brothers, without regards to race, gender, color, religious beleives etc...

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb
I gave a view point that is just as rational as yours yet all you did is to replay to the first couple of sentences of my replay to you. I don't think you are getting my point. If someone hasn't heard of or read the bible their world view is not biblical as in the Amazonian tribe but their view is no better or worse than yours. Like you said to nonspecific we don't need a book and god wrote what's right and wrong in the hearts of every man and in that my friend you just proved that anyone's view point is just as rational as yours.

My rhetorical questions, feel free to pick and choose or ignore entirely:

You are a Christian which means you accept this as true: "Jesus is Son of God" and all is built upon that, yes? If yes then I ask:

1) In your mind --- Is Jesus THE Son of God?... which would seem to imply "Only" and that being absolutely true (no other Son's of God)

2) Or is Jesus "A Son of God", which would imply the limitations of "THE" aren't applicable. ie (I have the key) vs (I have a key), one implies it is the only applicable, and the other implying it is one of many applicable.


If 2), then: 2a) Would you say you look for "other Son's of God" or that you do not look for "other Son's of God" because "one of the many possible Son's is all the God I need. (assuming many is possible when "A Son of God" is used). Or might you have a different reason for why you don't look and if so what are they?
2b) Assuming #2 and you do look for other Son's of God, is that something you restrict to only being applicable to another Christian Son of God? ie, might High Priest or Church leader be considered a Son of God if and only if they are also Christian?
2c) Assuming #2 again, and "No non-christian can be a Son of God", then why couldn't they be?
2d) Assuming #2 again, and "A non-christian can be a Son of God", then would you say your mind is open or closed to consider "Buddah was a Son of God"? Why or why not?


What reasoning do you use when evaluating whether or not someone is a "Son of God"?

If you apply that reasoning to Buddah does it hold steady?

Do you actively judge others as they relate to the reasoning you use for discerning "Son of God" from "Not Son of God"?

Did you apply that reasoning to Jesus or is Jesus assumed and that reasoning need not apply to Jesus as it's the base of the reasoning?

What does "Jesus died on the cross for our sins" mean to you? If it's literal and only literal, why can't it be literal + allegorical simultaneously?

If it's allegorical (in addition to literal), then what might it represent?

Is it possible that it might relate to Baptism, or Passover, or 'being born of a virgin', or putting oil over your head, or making your mind slippery to un-truth, opening your eyes for the first time after you abandon an old perspective and accept a higher one, or maybe even non Christian things like alchemy, or hermetic stuff, or theosophical stuff, or egyptian Thoth, or mithraic mysteries, Mithra and the Bull, or Bull Slaying myths / traditions or, Neitzche's "overman", or Plato's Allegory of the cave, or the Matrix and leaving it for a higher place, or ego death, or self serving ego vs selfless ego vs a combination of the two as "taking selflessness selfishly", or near death experiences, or rapture, or... etc X all possible symbolic meanings which might be gained from looking at overlaps of any of these compared to other ones.... (assuming biblical things can have dynamic meaning and so they can be allegorical in addition to literal)?

Mostly intended as just food for thought.

a reply to: th33ndgam3

You might like to consider this lecture by Micheal Heiser on the Sons of God . In short Jesus was a unique Son of God much like Isaac was a unique Son of Abraham .

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: AinElohim

So now your own logic fails you? Just because George Washington is painted on a mural with Moses doesn't mean our law is based on Christian/Judaic law. Why is it okay to make the argument for Moses and not Muhammad?

give it up...

Jesus wanted no institution in his name, and considering also that USA was to become the first secular nation.

I think the message that the founder pulled from the good book was correct.



I know it angers a lot of people but the nation was founded on the concept that "resistance to tyranny is obedience to God"

philosophia perennis!

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
a reply to: isofakingwetoddid

It wasn't circular thought, and this is the only time I am going to compensate for your laziness. I am salty because your not trying to have a conversation. You simply want to just ask a question for some reason you feel I was avoiding... God can't forgive satan because God is the essence of good which imo entails that he is perfectly Just. If he is perfectly Just he cannot allow evil to go without judgment.

Then why did IT, allow it to happen?

It is circular...in...the...extreme...

Any other compensation for its appearance is better described by psychology and the mechanics of transference and projection...on the part of human who (through free will) has the ability to CREATE whatever it desires (rightly or wrongly)...including the circlular notion that a benevolent, omnipotent being could create, for itself, a worthy foe (reason unknown), that it cannot poof into non-existence, like it poofed everything else into existence...

This...is irrational...in..the...extreme...

There would be certain points along the way, where, the meaning of the word ALMIGHTY was given its credit, because, believing the irrational begs some very intimate questions regarding how ALMIGHTY you think your creator IS...

Å99

Do you believe what that video expresses?

Checking it out. I wasn't asking a question I need to answer - unanswered questions - I was leading you down a reasonable train of thought that hasn't likely been considered. That applies for most readers when they read it.

a reply to: the2ofusr1

I'm unsure if you consider your statement "He was a unique son..." as true or untrue or neither (not reflecting something true, and as such disingenuous- so not a statement that truly exists).

1. If you accept it as true, and you also accept it as true that you're a son of God, then you're also a unique son of God.

And so "Jesus was a unique son", and "You are a unique son" --- there is no difference. Unless you want to elaborate on what unique means or the distinction between the two degrees of uniqueness

2. If you don't accept you're a son of God but also you accept God, then we could have a different discussion.

That being said, I think we're all unique sons. To different degrees --- some of us have more untruth than others. But, we aren't inferior or superior in any other. We're equal but developed at different things to different levels.

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
a reply to: Prezbo369
This was unnecessary. Are you here because your an anti-theist and just want to ridicule me or do you actually want to have a discussion?

Bible believers (Christians) have a long history of imposing their morality on other people, and still do it today (gay marriage? abortion?) so I found it to be very relevant. If you chose to be offended by that, then that's your problem.

Yes and I gave absolutely no reason for why that was my world view as I created the thread to discuss and compare my world view with others in a respectful manner.

No you asked 'If your world view is more rational than mine please come show me.' And I showed how your 'world view' is based on terrible reasons, while mine has a torrent of good reasons.

I gave no reasons in the OP so that the discussions would stay on one topic and I could avoid being steamrolled in many comments.

You gave no reasons because you know the ones you do have are pitiful are were probably going to be pulled apart.

This seems to have worked out nicely as you and I are just on the topic of ethics and which world view is more rational when it comes to its view on ethics.

No you've attempted to steer the topic onto ethics as you know you are unable to justify the reasons for your 'world view'.

This philosophically reduces to moral nihilism do you disagree?

Don't know don't care.

originally posted by: Aphorism
a reply to: Eunuchorn

Are you the hall-monitor?

Try answering his question.

I've been trying to play catch up on the thread without gouging my own eyes out, & Im still unable to find the question you're referring to. I'll keep looking, I'm sure it's hidden somewhere between the deep layers of the OPs pretentiousness.

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

Since so many seem interested in analyzing my view rather than their own I think it would be good for me to point out that my belief in the Biblical God came through an accumulation of evidences. No one argument I produce will ever lead you directly to my God. However all of the arguments when combined, appear to point only to the Christian God imo.

When you think you're ready to analyze my view, perhaps you could watch that vid and make a new thread about it. Then send me a U2U. This thread is a mess.

I get where you're coming from. You've had mystical experiences within a Christian context. You've read up on the Bible. You've read apologetics. So when you're ready to get where I'm coming from, let me know.

👣

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

So I am still confused.

So you finally figured that out

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Why is it okay to make the argument for Moses and not Muhammad?

forgot Muhammad was on there lol... too many joints, you understand right?

yo muHamMad!

originally posted by: BlueMule
This thread is a mess.

oh... no whining!

every thread is a mess soon as more than 2 people start talking to each other, it's the way of the world.

now get down to it!

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb
I don't think you know what you are talking about or even read the bible. Jesus said love and forgive your enemies. Jesus is telling us to forgive and love our enemies but god cant love and forgive his enemy. He is the perfect one he should be the one that could do it especially if us mere mortals can or at least make an attempt at. So Isofakingwetoddid has a valid question and you gave a bs answer every time because it was based on opinion not fact. This why the bible is contradictory, the all knowing all powerful can't forgive his own enemy the devil but expects us to. Does that mean we are better than god if we do forgive our enemies.

Luke 6:27 “But I say to you who hear, Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you,

Matthew 6:14-15 For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Romans 12:17-21 Repay no one evil for evil, but give thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all. If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all. Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.” To the contrary, “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals on his head.” Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

a reply to: celticdog

If someone hasn't heard of or read the bible their world view is not biblical as in the Amazonian tribe but their view is no better or worse than yours

What do you mean by better or worse? The question at hand would be is the Amazonian tribes world view as rational as my world view....Just saying they never heard of the Bible says nothing about the validity of either religion.

Like you said to nonspecific we don't need a book and god wrote what's right and wrong in the hearts of every man and in that my friend you just proved that anyone's view point is just as rational as yours.

I don't think you understand how rational discourse works. First the moral argument I presented to nonspecific wasn't for a Christian God. It was for a God that created the universe and is the Essence of Good. I also mentioned to nonspecific that in my world view God created all men(atheist, hindus, christians, ect..) to know the difference between Good and Evil. I also mentioned that it is within mans ability to choose to ignore the code or disobey it deliberately. Just because I believe in an objective moral standard does nothing to show that everyones view is just as rational as mine..

a reply to: akushla99

Then why did IT, allow it to happen? It is circular...in...the...extreme..

Allow what to happen? How is it circular..just claiming it doesn't prove it...give me a logical premise that shows what I have said is circular....

Any other compensation for its appearance is better described by psychology and the mechanics of transference and projection...on the part of human who (through free will) has the ability to CREATE whatever it desires (rightly or wrongly).

First part is very broad. Overall i just don't see what point your trying to make. Can you maybe clear it up a little?

Including the circlular notion that a benevolent, omnipotent being could create, for itself, a worthy foe (reason unknown), that it cannot poof into non-existence, like it poofed everything else into existence...

The is a strawman as it attack a world view in which Satan is equal to God. Thats not my world view and its your lack of Christian theology that shows it. Also again I will say the moral argument gets one to the idea that there is a Creator God who is the essence of Good. Also said in a previous post to nonspecific that you are attempting to draw a conclusion in the reverse order. So your jumping way ahead when you jump into Scripture. I didn't form an argument to fit the Biblical God. I observed something in the world, morals. Which eventually lead me to the conclusion that there is a God who is the essence of Good. There is no Bible or Biblical God there, and as I said a deist could very well use the moral argument as well.

If you want to have conversation we should start at the beginning of ethics or another topic entirely