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POLITICS: Taiwan Protests Proposed Anti-Secession Law By Beijing

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posted on Dec, 18 2004 @ 03:33 PM
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A new Beijing law could provide mainland China with a legal pretext for a military assault on Taiwan, and officials in Taipei angrily denounced the proposed law by Beijing. The new law, due to be drafted in a couple of weeks, seeks to reinforce China's claim over Taiwan. Beijing has threatened to invade the island if Taiwan declares independence.
 



www.globalsecurity.org
BENJAMIN SAND, BEIJING- The island has been self-governed since splitting from the mainland in 1949 after a bloody civil war.

In response to Beijing's plan, U.S. State Department Spokesman Richard Boucher urged both sides to show restraint and avoid aggravating an already tense relationship.

"We've spoken to China and we've talked to some people in Taiwan and our view is we think it's important for both sides to focus on dialogue. It's not time to harden positions or take unilateral stances."


Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


This has got to be a tough one on Washington, who on one hand wants to maintain ties with Taiwan, but on the other does not want to awaken a sleeping dragon. Boucher's response to the situation only goes to show the catch22 the US administration is in regarding the whole Taiwan issue. With a Beijing-sympathetic majority now in Taiwanese government, I suppose China is taking quick advantage of the situation to seal Taiwan's unified fate.

Related News Links:
reuters
www.taipeitimes.com
news.xinhuanet.com

Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:
Can China Invade Taiwan?
OP/ED: Is China preparing for a conflict over Taiwan?
Taiwan's independence, your opinion

[edit on 18-12-2004 by TrueAmerican]




posted on Dec, 18 2004 @ 05:31 PM
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There are no clear winners if China takes Taiwan right now. The question is when does the mainland make their move? My guess is that while our attention is focused on Afganistan and Iraq the Chinanese could do an end-aroud and seize the moment knowing that it would take months for the U.S. to get men and material in that section of Asia. Forget the 10,000 U.S. troops already there because China will already have POW camps for this problem. Washington would really have not much of a chance and Im sure we or the Chinanese would not risk going with the big Bang! Taiwan is a prize to their northern neighbors but does anyone think China would invade for a purely monatary purpose? I wonder if China would actually bite the hand that's feeding it?



posted on Dec, 18 2004 @ 05:58 PM
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Simply, China is and has just raised the stakes.
How so?
Bear in mind this:
Taiwan Relations Act

China passing such the Anti-Secession Law is making it 'legal' for them and us to go to war over Taiwan (Formosa) and its independence.
Really? No way...., right?
Read on the history of Taiwan:
Taiwan's 400 years of history
Also bear in mind the Treaty of Shimonoseki and what it implys:


China cedes to Japan in perpetuity and full sovereignty the following territories, together with all fortifications, arsenals, and public property thereon:
---snip---
(b) The island of Formosa, together with all islands appertaining or belonging to the said island of Formosa.

Treaty of Shimonoseki

Accordingly, Japan then ceded Taiwan (Formosa) to the U.S. as part of the San Francisco Bay Peace Treaty, et al.
GENERAL BACKGROUND
Treaty of Peace with Japan

The contention here and has been, is that China renounces their agreement made in 1895. They have contended that Taiwan (Formosa) is part of mainland China, whereas Taiwan and the U.S. have been stating that Taiwan is 'independent' and not apart of mainland China.

Yep, the stakes have been raised people.




seekerof

[edit on 18-12-2004 by Seekerof]



posted on Dec, 19 2004 @ 12:56 AM
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TrueAmerican
who on one hand wants to maintain ties with Taiwan, but on the other does not want to awaken a sleeping dragon.

lol, I wouldn't refer to China as a "sleeping dragon".



invent4u2
My guess is that while our attention is focused on Afganistan and Iraq the Chinanese could do an end-aroud and seize the moment knowing that it would take months for the U.S. to get men and material in that section of Asia.

lol, you think all of washington and the whole CIA is only focusing on Iraq & afghan. They are monitoring everything, and if the US helped Taiwan, I highly doubt it would be by the use or the Army/Marines. The goal wouldn't be to eliminate China, it would be to eliminate their military bases and assets, which could all be done by the Air Force and Navy.
The Army would be used - BUT, only stationed on Taiwan, and there main purpose would be for defense (IE:controll the Pac-3's).

So, Do most of you here think a war between China and Taiwan is imminent?



posted on Dec, 19 2004 @ 01:21 AM
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Originally posted by Murcielago


So, Do most of you here think a war between China and Taiwan is imminent?


Simply put - yes

I actually (wrongly) worried that was the very next step on 9/11 after the pentagon attack.

I have expected this for more than three years, nay more like the time that Carter whiled away this countries rights on the world stage back in his administration - what a weasel he was! and is.

China only needs the proper distraction in order to make it happen.



posted on Dec, 19 2004 @ 01:50 AM
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My guess is that while our attention is focused on Afganistan and Iraq the Chinanese could do an end-aroud and seize the moment knowing that it would take months for the U.S. to get men and material in that section of Asia.


I think along the same lines and I also wonder if North Korea is going to attack south Korea now that the USA is tied up in IRAQ



posted on Dec, 19 2004 @ 02:17 AM
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xpert11
I think along the same lines and I also wonder if North Korea is going to attack south Korea now that the USA is tied up in IRAQ

Again.....The entire US military is by no means stretched, the only branch that is is the Army. and the CIA has no more reason to take pics and monitor Iraq, there attention would be on China-Taiwan, SK-NK, Iran, Syria, etc. When talking about the US military it seems people often forget how many ships and subs and planes there really is.



posted on Dec, 19 2004 @ 03:16 AM
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Originally posted by Murcielago


xpert11
I think along the same lines and I also wonder if North Korea is going to attack south Korea now that the USA is tied up in IRAQ

Again.....The entire US military is by no means stretched, the only branch that is is the Army. and the CIA has no more reason to take pics and monitor Iraq, there attention would be on China-Taiwan, SK-NK, Iran, Syria, etc. When talking about the US military it seems people often forget how many ships and subs and planes there really is.


I agree that the air force and the navy are pretty much free to repel a chinese invasion of taiwan (which would be primarily a question of them bombing the crap out of taiwanese defenses and then doing a maritime invasion) - so in that way I think you're right that the US has the capability to repel this invasion.

BUT every war incurs costs in terms of money...and the US is now in a very large budget deficit. Sure the military could probably do the job...but a sustained effort requires strong monetary resources at home. When one talks of being 'overstretched' in capabilities, it can also mean monetary ones, and I think that that is probably the way in which the US has overstretched itself at the moment, rather than in true military firepower.



posted on Dec, 19 2004 @ 03:34 AM
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Again.....The entire US military is by no means stretched, the only branch that is is the Army. and the CIA has no more reason to take pics and monitor Iraq, there attention would be on China-Taiwan, SK-NK, Iran, Syria, etc. When talking about the US military it seems people often forget how many ships and subs and planes there really is.
The USA might have trouble winning wars if they are
short on ground troops.



posted on Dec, 19 2004 @ 05:18 AM
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The Anti-Secession law just passed by China seems a little overkill but will not have any legal effect outside China. It can be understood as a statement from China, which is consistent with what they have said all along, ONE CHINA.

This is also consistent with with Colin Powell's proclamation of America supporting a one China policy, during his visit to China two two months back.

As with the threat of imminent war, this has subsided due to the outcome of the recent Taiwanese parliamentary elections, where the opposition won the majority over the ruling party.

When interviewed, the opposition voters stated that they voted for the opposition because they did not wish for Taiwan to pursue the "Independence Card" so clumsily played by the ruling party and President Chen.



posted on Dec, 27 2004 @ 02:09 AM
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From November of this year:


In Taiwan, after the coming into effect of the San Francisco Peace Treaty, with Taiwan under the administrative authority of the US military government, the local people are "island citizens of the Taiwan cession."

Of course, the US flag should be flying. Taiwan is foreign territory under the dominion of the US, or more technically a "quasi-trusteeship of insular status under the US military government." The passport issued to Taiwanese citizens would be similar to a "trusteeship" one, and would fall under the category of "US national, non-citizen."

This is a jus soli nationality based on the US Supreme Court's insular cases, and not based on the 14th Amendment to the US Constitution.

Taiwan's citizens do not (will not) have voting rights in US federal elections.

US holds nation's sovereignty

As such, China can continue to 'shake and rattle', but when it 'jumps', in regard to Taiwan, be sure that there will be consequences.......for all.




seekerof



posted on Dec, 27 2004 @ 03:35 AM
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Seeker, thanks for all the helpful links. I have learned a lot more about the whole issue from those links and statements in this thread. It is a tough situation indeed, and while I agree that the US technically holds sovereignty, the PRC does not see it that way, and there could be some real troubles if they get bold with the new law and decide to press the issue. I just hope they chill out now that Beijing has a sympathetic majority.



posted on Dec, 27 2004 @ 03:41 AM
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Seekerof


Excellent point and great find that you have brought up. I wonder if the communist government of China has this in mind when it sabre rattles all the time?



posted on Dec, 27 2004 @ 03:48 AM
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Thanks to both of you.
What needs to be kept in mind is the term: 'One China'.
Nixon/Kissinger, then Carter, bits of Reagan, and then Clinton, all have sort of accepted this notion/policy of 'One China,' which simply implied that Taiwan should be apart of China. For some reason, 1979 rings a bell....hmm, may have to search a bit on that, can't seem to remember why. But, despite the above mentioned names, I find it ironic that everytime the Chinese 'shake and rattle' towards Taiwan, the U.S. raises a hand. Taiwan is of major interest to the U.S., as it is to China. Kind of reminds me of how Cuba was to Russia.






seekerof



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