It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Divine Wisdom Vs Worldly Wisdom

page: 1
6
<<   2 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Mar, 14 2015 @ 07:38 PM
link   
This world puts a very high value on intellectual smarts. From a tender age they were egged on in school to get the best grades so they can get into the best schools. There is even a show out, which isn't that bad, called Scorpions, about a bunch of geniuses.

Now God is wise, and he gives wisdom freely to all that ask it from him. And of course no intellectual person on earth really impresses him. Intellectual smarts have not made this world a place of freedom, peace, paradise, free of hatred, warfare, strife, and corruption. Many times smart people use their cunning to fraud, swindle, and rob from others. Others use their charismatic intelligence to gain power for a time over others, and abuse that power.

I was reading in the Bible about divine wisdom, and wanted to share how different importance God puts on intellectual wisdom compared to his wisdom. Notice what divine wisdom is:

(James 3:17, 18) . . .But the wisdom from above is first of all pure, then peaceable, reasonable, ready to obey, full of mercy and good fruits, impartial, not hypocritical.  Moreover, the fruit of righteousness is sown in peaceful conditions for those who are making peace.


I meditate on that divine truth and realize how much more sublime God's wisdom is to that of our own. Instead of showing a spirit of contention, competition, learning facts, showing off knowledge, divine wisdom is first above all things pure. That is chaste. That is it is clean and pure in intentions and motives, it is not motivated out of selfishness, rather out of love and abnegation.

To achieve divine wisdom one must be pure at heart. And then be peaceable. Not contentious, not ready to fight, not puffed up with pride, but humble, and slow to anger, and actively pursue peace with people of all sorts.

So far which wisdom is better? Intellectual wisdom of the world? Or divine wisdom from above? We don't live in a world where people, in general, display divine wisdom.

For example, you're driving down the highway and someone who is selfish and careless cuts you off. Human tendency may be to become irate, swear, even try to get vengeance. There have been many tales of road-rage. What would happen if divine wisdom was displayed. You let the person alone, let them go, forgive them, and show peace. What world would be a better place to live in? What if not just a Christian showed divine wisdom, but everyone?

Divine wisdom is reasonable. Someone who is reasonable is not rigid, unbendable. Rather they can change according to circumstances and events. The way man's laws are written they are very rigid and unreasonable, and because of these laws many people are dealt with mercilessly by the courts of law, and many injustices are perpetuated upon mankind. God's laws are reasonable, bendable, and take into people's circumstances. A person that shows divine wisdom also is reasonable in their dealings with other people.

Which is better? Being intellectually smart, and looking down on others as their superior? Or being pure in thought and motive and reasonable with other people?

Of course that was just part of divine wisdom, it is also full of good fruits, full of mercy, impartial, and IS NOT hypocritical.

Divine wisdom comes down from above. In fact it is much more important than intellectual wisdom that puffs up and causes racial divisions and tensions. I contemplate this one scripture and understand how vastly superior is God's wisdom and his ways to those of man.

I admit I have failed in applying Godly wisdom, but am thankful that I have been given God's good word to see what he sees as true wisdom. And where I have failed, from this day forward I make it my aim to achieve divine wisdom in my life, in my dealing with others.

God's wisdom is so much higher than that of man's that man, in his wisdom has been made foolish, and God, by means of the "foolish" (people who display divine wisdom) has saved those who are believing.


(1 Corinthians 1:27-29) . . .but God chose the foolish things of the world to put the wise men to shame; and God chose the weak things of the world to put the strong things to shame; 28 and God chose the insignificant things of the world and the things looked down on, the things that are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, 29 so that no one might boast in the sight of God.



More divine wisdom:

(Philippians 2:3, 4) . . .Do nothing out of contentiousness or out of egotism, but with humility consider others superior to you, 4 as you look out not only for your own interests, but also for the interests of others.

True wisdom that is from above is free of contentiousness, it is not full of haughty disdain, rather it is humble, and considers the other person to be superior. Can you imagine if everyone humbly looked up to others as their superior? Everyone? What type of world would we live in?



And finally I will leave what true love is, for divine wisdom means nothing if we do not have love:

(1 Corinthians 13:4-8) . . .Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous. It does not brag, does not get puffed up, 5 does not behave indecently, does not look for its own interests, does not become provoked. It does not keep account of the injury. 6 It does not rejoice over unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth. 7 It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. 8 Love never fails. . . .




posted on Mar, 14 2015 @ 07:41 PM
link   
Its begun vimeo.com...



posted on Mar, 14 2015 @ 08:25 PM
link   
a reply to: iNobody

Divine wisdom is very beautiful.

But I've seen no indication from you that you know anything about her that you didn't read from a book.

Needless to say, she can't be grokked that way.

You might as well try reading about water to quench your thirst.

👣


edit on 125Saturday000000America/ChicagoMar000000SaturdayAmerica/Chicago by BlueMule because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 14 2015 @ 10:31 PM
link   
Divine wisdom is best. If you have it and If you ask about something the answer will come to you. The problem is that to understand the answer you have to research the subject. Or you could choose automatic and just be satisfied living an easy stress free life.



posted on Mar, 14 2015 @ 10:49 PM
link   
a reply to: iNobody

You have to seek Gods divine wisdom though, with a humble heart; never be just believing what others say, and never be accepting what others say either, always be searching, and questioning.

When you find a good answer, sit on it, don’t make a move but instead look for a better answer, until all the gaps become filled. And those gaps will become filled over time, by those who truly seek out Gods truth, with all their heart, soul and mind…

And when they do, God will pour out the Spirit onto them, even during their search, to help them on their way.




Exodus 31:2-3
31 Then the LORD said to Moses, 2 “See, I have chosen Bezalel son of Uri, the son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah, 3 and I have filled him with the Spirit of God, with wisdom, with understanding, with knowledge and with all kinds of skills—




ALL those who have the Spirit of God poured out on them; receive Wisdom, knowledge and understanding from God…


Peace be with you…


- JC

edit on 14-3-2015 by Joecroft because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 14 2015 @ 11:25 PM
link   
I don't believe worldly and divine wisdom are at odds personally, there is always a worldly truth that coincides with a divine (spiritual) one. Jesus' parables are a good example of this, they use worldly teachings (i.e. material things) to teach spiritual truths (immaterial things).

Only when worldly teachings contradict and mislead someone to a false truth (i.e. religious teachings) are they at odds with one another, but worldly wisdom can lead to spiritual wisdom if seen in the right light.

Being impartial is the key though, you have to consider all possibilities when seeking truth, not just one alone. This is the problem with religion, they teach against impartiality, it's their way or the highway (to hell).



posted on Mar, 15 2015 @ 01:01 AM
link   
a reply to: iNobody
"The beginning of wisdom is fear of the LORD".

Wisdom and knowledge are two completely different concepts. You can be filled with factual knowledge and still be "dumb as a box of rocks". Conversely, some of the wisest people I've ever met, couldn't read or write their name.

All of the fine qualities you listed that one should aspire, are easily attained by knowing, loving and serving God. Wisdom is one of the seven gifts of The Holy Ghost as told in Isaiah. In our own lives, the prime example to follow, for perfect wisdom, is of course, Jesus Christ. (who was foretold in Isaiah.)



posted on Mar, 15 2015 @ 01:50 AM
link   
a reply to: iNobody
I did my own thread on "the Wisdom from above" as found in James.
One thing I noticed was that the effects of this Wisdom are very similar to "the fruit of the Spirit" in Galatians ch5 v22.
Their respective opposites, the effects of earthly wisdom and "the works of the flesh" are also comparable.
I think "wisdom from above" is the name James gives to the Holy Spirit.



posted on Mar, 19 2015 @ 07:30 AM
link   
And God said, "Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs? The connections are many here!


Virgo, spica


Born of a virgin, divine wisdom from above...


The star-sign Virgo is that of a virgin with seed in her hand in the wheat in her hand is the bright star spica, meaning "a ear of grain". It's ancient Arabic name was al zamach, which means "the branch". The bright star in her right arm (which hold a branch) is called al mureddin, which means "who shall come down" or "who shall have dominion" is also known as Vindemiatrix, a Chaldean word meaning "the son, or branch, who comes"





"At her rising Virgo, bestows high eminence by bestowing supreme power; she will produce a man to direct the laws of the state and the sacred code;"


More at, www.constellationsofwords.com...






edit on 19-3-2015 by Wifibrains because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 19 2015 @ 08:07 AM
link   
a reply to: iNobody

I don't know what you are singing, but God is the original asshole dictator. Worship him or else he will blow you up or drown you or send awful plagues. Heck the ONE time in the bible that humanity was supposed to be united, god got jealous and made everyone not understand each other.

You can lament the intellectuals of the world not trying to improve it, but your god is no better. He is just as petty and arrogant as the humans he sired.



posted on Mar, 19 2015 @ 11:06 AM
link   

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: iNobody

I don't know what you are singing, but God is the original asshole dictator. Worship him or else he will blow you up or drown you or send awful plagues. Heck the ONE time in the bible that humanity was supposed to be united, god got jealous and made everyone not understand each other.

You can lament the intellectuals of the world not trying to improve it, but your god is no better. He is just as petty and arrogant as the humans he sired.


And a good morning to you to sir.
That comment really brought out the douche in you.



posted on Mar, 19 2015 @ 11:10 AM
link   
a reply to: iNobody

Truth hurts. God is just a product of man so it isn't surprising that God is intolerant and vengeful.



posted on Mar, 19 2015 @ 11:13 AM
link   
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Nah, truth doesn't hurt. But you have a good day. I see you may be having some type of issues, whatever they are, I hope you are feeling better soon.

Don't worry, God is a big enough person to take a lot of abuse heaped on him. He's a lot older and wiser than me. When I see people who heap it on him like you, I used to get more agitated when I was younger.Now I just sigh. I'm sure that is what he is doing as well. Maybe not even that.

This world is enough proof to me that your ways aren't better. If perhaps you have provided me peace and security, and healed all of the worlds problems, I might actually take you seriously.



posted on Mar, 19 2015 @ 11:29 AM
link   
a reply to: iNobody

Hey if you want to have faith in an entity that decided the best way to cleanse the world of overrun evil is to destroy 99% of life on the planet with a giant flood when he could just as easily rooted out the evil individually more power to you. But the fact is, your god is violent. VERY violent. Heck, going by the numbers God is WAY worse than even Satan when it comes to death and mayhem.

Quiz: The Death Toll List - God vs. Satan

Finding wisdom in HIS teaching is like trying to find wisdom under the tutelage of Adolph Hitler or Joseph Stalin.

By the way, god shouldn't need you to defend him. God should come down and defend his own atrocities for once.
edit on 19-3-2015 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 19 2015 @ 11:35 AM
link   
a reply to: Krazysh0t

You know what is funny. A lot of people are asking for the elimination of ISIS. I wonder if you were there when got rid of the wicked people to know how bad they were.

Jehovah is a patient God. He does use violence when needed. But to accuse Jehovah of being the likes of Stalin and Hitler is quite foolish and even hateful.

And one day in his own time, not yours or mine, he will fix everything. Where we will both be I have no idea.

But since you have already judged him. Perhaps you can tell me, what should he have done with the people at that time? And can you tell me what they were like, since you know better than God. Were they like ISIL, or what? Do you think you would have been friends with them?



posted on Mar, 19 2015 @ 11:57 AM
link   

originally posted by: iNobody
a reply to: Krazysh0t

You know what is funny. A lot of people are asking for the elimination of ISIS. I wonder if you were there when got rid of the wicked people to know how bad they were.


If you knew anything about me, you'd know that I have been saying for months now that we shouldn't be intervening against ISIS and am in favor of letting the countries in the region handle their own problems.


Jehovah is a patient God. He does use violence when needed. But to accuse Jehovah of being the likes of Stalin and Hitler is quite foolish and even hateful.


Yea, Hitler and Stalin didn't come close to the amount of people murdered by god.


And one day in his own time, not yours or mine, he will fix everything. Where we will both be I have no idea.


I doubt this. He has never "fixed" any problem on earth and generally just lets them fester or spawns some bandaid fix like sending his only son to preach and die at the hands of humans. Except his son's message could only reach a very small section of the world. Meaning that if it wasn't for Christianities' aggressive expansion in subsequent centuries, the message would be lost to the annals of time.


But since you have already judged him. Perhaps you can tell me, what should he have done with the people at that time? And can you tell me what they were like, since you know better than God. Were they like ISIL, or what? Do you think you would have been friends with them?


I would say that they are people just like any others. Some we'd call bad. Some we'd call good. They probably acted like any people of the time acted. To be honest though, if any group of people needed smiting based on behaving like ISIL, it would be the ancient Hebrews. Everything about them in the bible is a lie. In reality, they were nomad warriors that traveled from land to land to wage warfare against pretty much anyone who wasn't Hebrew. Failing that, they'd hire themselves out as mercenaries to the powers of the land. For instance, they may have served as mercenaries in the Egyptian military.

The Exodus wasn't a bunch of slaves fleeing oppression, but was instead a military campaign where the Hebrews set out to conquer a new land and establish a country. You don't by any chance think that Canaan was unoccupied when they arrived there do you? What do you think happened to those people?



posted on Mar, 19 2015 @ 12:07 PM
link   
a reply to: Krazysh0t

So, in your mind, divine wisdom is a failure. By being pure, reasonable, merciful, full of good, and loving is a failure.

And you obviously do not believe God is any of these things.

Here are a couple of things for you to think about, firstly God has standards. We learned of them when he sent two angels to Sodom to see whether the reports and cries from those cities were true or not. Those angels were set upon and the men tried to force rape them, and then Lot, for having protected them.

When he told his servant Abraham what he had heard about Sodom and Gomorrah, Abraham reasoned with God and said it was inconceivable for him to get rid of the people, if only 5 righteous people were in the city. And God said he would not destroy the people if he only found 5 righteous people within it. So he has a standard, and his tolerance of wickedness is very very very high.

Look at today's world, he has not done away with it yet, and have you heard or seen the disgusting filth being done? If he hasn't intervened yet, obviously his tolerance of badness is very, very, very great.

The people of the land of Canaan were disgusting in their filth. Jehovah did the world a service again when he did away with them. And he always preserved those who had the right heart condition.

(Exodus 34:6, 7) . . .Jehovah, Jehovah, a God merciful and compassionate, slow to anger and abundant in loyal love and truth, 7 showing loyal love to thousands, pardoning error and transgression and sin, but he will by no means leave the guilty unpunished, bringing punishment for the error of fathers upon sons and upon grandsons, upon the third generation and upon the fourth generation.”


Even when the ancient city of Nineveh became so violent and corrupt that he could no longer tolerate them he sent his prophet Jonah to them to warn them he was about to do away with them. And they repented. From the king to the little ones. And Jehovah taught us this lesson in tolerance:

(Jonah 4:10, 11) . . .: “You felt sorry for the bottle-gourd plant, which you did not work for, nor did you make it grow; it grew in one night and perished in one night. 11 Should I not also feel sorry for Nin′e·veh the great city, in which there are more than 120,000 men who do not even know right from wrong, as well as their many animals?”


You are right, I don't need to defend Jehovah. You have just twisted the facts and have lied about him, and covered up his true nature, for your own evil ends, whatever they may be. But you have no shame in your slander. He has shown his record, and I have seen it. And your lies against him are shameful.

(Isaiah 55:9) “For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So my ways are higher than your ways And my thoughts than your thoughts.


(Job 35:2) “Are you so convinced that you are right that you would say, ‘I am more righteous than God’?

(Proverbs 19:3) It is a man’s own foolishness that distorts his way, And his heart becomes enraged against Jehovah.

(Ezekiel 33:17) “But your people have said, ‘The way of Jehovah is unjust,’ when it is actually their way that is unjust.

(Ezekiel 33:20) “But you have said, ‘The way of Jehovah is unjust.’ I will judge each of you according to his ways, O house of Israel.”



posted on Mar, 19 2015 @ 12:35 PM
link   

originally posted by: iNobody
a reply to: Krazysh0t

So, in your mind, divine wisdom is a failure. By being pure, reasonable, merciful, full of good, and loving is a failure.


In my mind, divine wisdom is a lie. It is all regular wisdom thought up by some human.


And you obviously do not believe God is any of these things.

Here are a couple of things for you to think about, firstly God has standards. We learned of them when he sent two angels to Sodom to see whether the reports and cries from those cities were true or not. Those angels were set upon and the men tried to force rape them, and then Lot, for having protected them.

When he told his servant Abraham what he had heard about Sodom and Gomorrah, Abraham reasoned with God and said it was inconceivable for him to get rid of the people, if only 5 righteous people were in the city. And God said he would not destroy the people if he only found 5 righteous people within it. So he has a standard, and his tolerance of wickedness is very very very high.


Let me tell you what -I- think of this story. It is Hebrews trying to paint two cities that didn't like them as evil and getting their just desserts when a natural disaster took them out. Funny you should mention Lot, because shortly after this happened Lot and his daughters were hanging out in a cave. The daughters got Lot hammered with wine then proceeded to rape him.


Look at today's world, he has not done away with it yet, and have you heard or seen the disgusting filth being done? If he hasn't intervened yet, obviously his tolerance of badness is very, very, very great.


I see humans behaving like humans always behaved.


The people of the land of Canaan were disgusting in their filth. Jehovah did the world a service again when he did away with them. And he always preserved those who had the right heart condition.

(Exodus 34:6, 7) . . .Jehovah, Jehovah, a God merciful and compassionate, slow to anger and abundant in loyal love and truth, 7 showing loyal love to thousands, pardoning error and transgression and sin, but he will by no means leave the guilty unpunished, bringing punishment for the error of fathers upon sons and upon grandsons, upon the third generation and upon the fourth generation.”


Naturally the Canaanites were "filthy" and deserved to be tossed. History is written by the winners. If the Exodus was a military campaign, it is only reasonable to assume that the victors would paint the defeated as inhuman and evil. Militaries do this all the time. This even continues into the present.

Heck what you just said above reads like a hate manifesto. God preserves the people with the right heart condition? God did the world a favor by doing away with them? That looks like racist vitriol there.

I'd also like to address this particular quote from the passage you just read "error of fathers upon sons and upon grandsons, upon the third generation and upon the fourth generation.” What the F#? Why do someone's children for FOUR generations have to pay for the sins of the father? If that is true, then white people in America are still guilty of enslaving black people through ancestral ties.


Even when the ancient city of Nineveh became so violent and corrupt that he could no longer tolerate them he sent his prophet Jonah to them to warn them he was about to do away with them. And they repented. From the king to the little ones. And Jehovah taught us this lesson in tolerance:

(Jonah 4:10, 11) . . .: “You felt sorry for the bottle-gourd plant, which you did not work for, nor did you make it grow; it grew in one night and perished in one night. 11 Should I not also feel sorry for Nin′e·veh the great city, in which there are more than 120,000 men who do not even know right from wrong, as well as their many animals?”


I'm curious what the difference between the people in Nineveh and Sodom and Gomorrah is when it comes to not knowing right from wrong. Seems selective here. Also, that passage you just quoted happened right after Jonah got upset that God was going to smite the city. Jonah is supposed to be his profit and here he is succumbing to bloodlust and getting upset because it didn't happen.


You are right, I don't need to defend Jehovah. You have just twisted the facts and have lied about him, and covered up his true nature, for your own evil ends, whatever they may be. But you have no shame in your slander. He has shown his record, and I have seen it. And your lies against him are shameful.


Lied about him? Everything I've said about him is in the bible. You can't refute these things. They are in YOUR sacred text. Seeing as how you already have your rationalizations ready for these arguments shows that you know what I am saying is true about these atrocities otherwise you wouldn't need such goofy rationalizations.
edit on 19-3-2015 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 19 2015 @ 12:44 PM
link   
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Each and every time you judge you are stating that you were there and knew each individual Jehovah dealt with, and know that he was not just.

And I know you weren't there. You say, well, yeah, the winners write history. Yet ignore the righteous standards of God. You cannot see them, and continue to judge him.

Until you give me proof you know God was unrighteous in his actions, and you have actual knowledge of the people he dealt with, I will continue to not believe you.

If you can provide me peace and security, and I mean that. I have been harassed by the government, falsely accussed, and almost even imprisoned for things I did not do. And am now under constant threat of being kidnapped, and killed, I will not accept your ways as better.

You give me peace, you give me security. You give me justice against the liars, and the corruption in the governments on earth, and I will accept your arguments. Until then I will perceive you as a mean, a nasty, a dirty, and an unreasoning man.

I do not wish you harm. Quite to the contrary, I have taken time out of my day, which I don't have, and now have to leave, to talk with you. Because you took the time yourself to involve me in conversation. And I enjoyed it. All of your arguments, have been told me many times before, by others, better than you, and I have investigated them years ago.

You have not shown anything to show me divine wisdom is not better than worldly wisdom.

ETA: Actually, the only thing you have tried unsuccessfully to do is tear me down, and rip my faith to shreds. Without even trying to offer anything better.

And you have not given me peace, and you have not shown me the way to security or happiness.

You have not proven that your ways are better than God's.
edit on 19-3-2015 by iNobody because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 19 2015 @ 01:05 PM
link   

originally posted by: iNobody
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Each and every time you judge you are stating that you were there and knew each individual Jehovah dealt with, and know that he was not just.


No, I am taking things I know about human behavior using them to interpret how the people of old would act considering the god of the bible isn't real. People trying to invent divine reasons for act intolerant towards others sounds like a perfect excuse to behave badly, "It's not my fault that I'm murdering your men and raping your women. God said I should do it."


And I know you weren't there. You say, well, yeah, the winners write history. Yet ignore the righteous standards of God. You cannot see them, and continue to judge him.


God is just a creation of man.


Until you give me proof you know God was unrighteous in his actions, and you have actual knowledge of the people he dealt with, I will continue to not believe you.


You first have to prove that god exists. My reasoning is based off of available evidence. There is no evidence that god exists and even if he does exist, that he spoke directly to the people and enforced his will through them.


If you can provide me peace and security, and I mean that. I have been harassed by the government, falsely accussed, and almost even imprisoned for things I did not do. And am now under constant threat of being kidnapped, and killed, I will not accept your ways as better.

You give me peace, you give me security. You give me justice against the liars, and the corruption in the governments on earth, and I will accept your arguments. Until then I will perceive you as a mean, a nasty, a dirty, and an unreasoning man.


I'm not here to give you any of those things. I'm here to give you a dose of reality. Reality isn't all nice and helpful. It is dark and nasty. You need to find your own comforts in your times of need. Believing in something because you are scared is no reason to believe in something. You should believe because you have evidence saying it is real.


I do not wish you harm. Quite to the contrary, I have taken time out of my day, which I don't have, and now have to leave, to talk with you. Because you took the time yourself to involve me in conversation. And I enjoyed it. All of your arguments, have been told me many times before, by others, better than you, and I have investigated them years ago.


Not sure why you mentioned this. I don't wish you harm either. Just trying to remove the confirmation bias from your eyes.


You have not shown anything to show me divine wisdom is not better than worldly wisdom.

ETA: Actually, the only thing you have tried unsuccessfully to do is tear me down, and rip my faith to shreds. Without even trying to offer anything better.


Why do I need to substitute something that could just as easily be just as flawed if not more so than your mythology? Are you THAT terrified that life may be meaningless?


And you have not given me peace, and you have not shown me the way to security or happiness.

You have not proven that your ways are better than God's.


In other words, God is just a security blanket for you because you are too scared to learn how the universe really works.



new topics

top topics



 
6
<<   2 >>

log in

join