It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Obama To Bypass Congress On Iran Treaty?

page: 1
25
<<   2  3 >>

log in

join
share:
+18 more 
posted on Mar, 13 2015 @ 01:46 PM
link   
Seems that Obama has found a new way to shred the Constitution by taking his Iran deal to the UN Security Council.www.thedailybeast.com...

For a Constitutional scholar, he seems rather intent on ignoring it on a regular basis. The House and Senate needs to proceed on a full censor on Obama. While not an impeachment, it has the same effect of stripping all power from Obama without the negative aspects of a full removal. And it would negate his comment of I have a phone and a pen.
edit on 13-3-2015 by Ahabstar because: (no reason given)




posted on Mar, 13 2015 @ 01:56 PM
link   
a reply to: Ahabstar

Or both sides could actually stop sabotaging each others every move and work together for everyone's benefit like they were elected to do and are being paid to do. You know, represent us and our interests???

Not that I don't find all the political BS games and backstabbing entertaining, but shouldn't we maybe get back to work and take things a little more serious at some point???

This stupid sh*t has been continuous now for at the very least about 2 decades and is just getting more and more out of hand. People are losing their freedom, property and even their lives because a bunch of spoiled brat adult children are running things without even the slightest responsibility or integrity about what actions they take.

It's selfish, irresponsible, dangerous and apparently the only game in town that anyone seems to want to play. But I'm afraid it's time to grow the F**k up now kiddies and get back to doing some real work in a proper manner.


+8 more 
posted on Mar, 13 2015 @ 02:05 PM
link   

originally posted by: Ahabstar
For a Constitutional scholar, he seems rather intent on ignoring it on a regular basis.


The way he acts I wonder if he actually is one or if it's BS that he made up. I mean he acts like he'd never read it, let alone heard of it. How many times has he violated it?



posted on Mar, 13 2015 @ 02:06 PM
link   
a reply to: Ahabstar

If the GOP weren't trying to undermine proper diplomatic relations between the US and Iran, then this probably would not have occurred in the first place.

The GOP congress of the last 8 years has been the most ineffective in a really long time.

It's a tit for tat battle, and the GOP started it, by literally stating that their mission during Obama's presidency, was to be disruptive and halt any and all agendas put forward by his administration.

That's not politics, it's not democracy, that's just irresponsible, ineffective and quite frankly dangerous. As it prevents the country as a whole from moving forward.

~Tenth



posted on Mar, 13 2015 @ 02:07 PM
link   
a reply to: Ahabstar

How is taking this to the UN "shredding" the Constitution?


+1 more 
posted on Mar, 13 2015 @ 02:09 PM
link   



The Obama administration hinted Thursday that it may take elements of an Iranian nuclear deal to the United Nations—while bypassing Congress for now.



Sneaky sneaky indeed.

All on target for the Obama Company.



Iran won't agree to any nuclear restrictions anyway.

So what difference does it make?



+5 more 
posted on Mar, 13 2015 @ 02:14 PM
link   
We need to get over the Obama Derangement Syndrome. These type of deals are done all the time from all types of presidents.
History Shows Obama does not need Congress to Seal Iran Deal



So no gutting the constitution, just the normal way the executive branch works.



posted on Mar, 13 2015 @ 02:16 PM
link   
a reply to: xuenchen

But what did he say? Nothing that I can find. What is this "hint"? Here's what was said:



Asked about the potential of a U.N. role in the Iran deal, State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki said Thursday, "I'm not going to prejudge what step would be taken or wouldn't be taken."


Source
edit on 3/13/2015 by Benevolent Heretic because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2015 @ 02:16 PM
link   
a reply to: blargo

Ain't it funny when people have NO idea what they are talking about eh?

From your source:



Ironic them GOP and their complaints for things they've done all a long and never said two words about...

~Tenth



posted on Mar, 13 2015 @ 02:25 PM
link   
a reply to: tothetenthpower

Clearly its only a problem when the other guy is doing it. Attitudes like that is why I hate both parties.



posted on Mar, 13 2015 @ 02:35 PM
link   
a reply to: Krazysh0t
That is why I really dislike these process arguments. This is a pretty standard process in the modern era. All the presidents did it. Argue about what is in the agreement and that is fair game. But these process arguments as if Obama or W Bush before are the first to do such a thing is crazy.



posted on Mar, 13 2015 @ 02:57 PM
link   

originally posted by: blargo
a reply to: Krazysh0t
That is why I really dislike these process arguments. This is a pretty standard process in the modern era. All the presidents did it. Argue about what is in the agreement and that is fair game. But these process arguments as if Obama or W Bush before are the first to do such a thing is crazy.



What's funny is that literally EVERY argument used to discredit Obama's Presidency has been used before against other Presidents. Even the Birther argument isn't new. This is why I tire easily of political debates. They usually end up with me getting insulted and typecast into the opposing party when I support neither, and no one can recognize political rhetoric and hyperbole anymore. It's really scary when people start using it and don't even know they are using it. They repeat those arguments like they are being insightful.



posted on Mar, 13 2015 @ 03:55 PM
link   
My opinion on this isn't necessarily that the President is shredding the Constitution with this deal, and I'll explain why.

When those Senators wrote that letter to Iran, they essentially clued Iran in to the fact that, if this deal was with the United States, it wouldn't be binding, unless voted on, and approved by the Senate.

Since Obama knows that the Senate wouldn't approve the deal, his "Ace in the hole" in the deal (his perceived authority by Iran, to make the deal in the first place) was then taken away, via that letter, therefore it almost feels as though he were bluffing Iran, and the Senators gave the Iranians a list of his 'tells'.

He isn't going to put the deal before the Senate, because he knows it'll die there, so in order to make the deal, while avoiding a Senate vote, he has sought to morph the deal into a U.N. Security Council agreement, which wouldn't require the Senate to vote on it, and this has been done many, many times before.

As for those wondering if Obama even knows the Constitution, or questioning his credentials regarding it, bear in mind that it takes a strong knowledge of something, to adhere to it, or to subvert it.

Shredding the Constitution would indicate fundamentally changing it, or getting rid of it entirely, and while we could argue ad infinitum on whether or not Obama would like to do either of those things, the fact is that what he's doing, is working the system to get what he wants, and right now, what he seems to really want, is this deal with Iran.

Interestingly, for these types of maneuvers to be stopped, a change in the Constitution would be needed.



posted on Mar, 13 2015 @ 04:46 PM
link   
a reply to: Ahabstar

He didn't study constitutional law to uphold it. He studied it to better to be able to undermine and subvert it. He doesn't give a whit about the Constitution and neither does Congress.



posted on Mar, 13 2015 @ 04:59 PM
link   
a reply to: Ahabstar

Executive Power vs. Congressional Power
This is a thorny issue of course. Here is some perspective on what may actually happen...



(Reuters) - Major world powers have begun talks about a United Nations Security Council resolution to lift U.N. sanctions on Iran if a nuclear agreement is struck with Tehran, a step that could make it harder for the U.S. Congress to undo a deal, Western officials said.

The talks between Britain, China, France, Russia and the United States — the five permanent members of the Security Council — plus Germany and Iran, are taking place ahead of difficult negotiations that resume next week over constricting Iran's nuclear ability.


Okay. So "major world powers" are weighing in at the UN. Shouldn't the US be one of those major powers?

Why wouldn't the President and his Executive Branch want to participate in this with Britain, China, France and Russia?

The problem is Congress wants CONTROL over this process, and believes that removing sanctions = automatic nuclear bomb. Congress does not seem to want to be told it is only one player on the International stage in a high-stakes chess game, and that they are not the entirety of the decision-makers in the world. It is hubris to think that they should be above all other nations, including their own President, in matters of sensitive foreign policy.



U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry told Congress on Wednesday that an Iran nuclear deal would not be legally binding, meaning future U.S. presidents could decide not to implement it. That point was emphasized in an open letter by 47 Republican senators sent on Monday to Iran's leaders asserting any deal could be discarded once President Barack Obama leaves office in January 2017.

But a Security Council resolution on a nuclear deal with Iran could be legally binding, say Western diplomatic officials. That could complicate and possibly undercut future attempts by Republicans in Washington to unravel an agreement.


47 Members of the Senate played hardball with their "letter" to Iran. Did they think that kind of gamesmanship would go unanswered? That the International Stage was simply an extension of their own power?

I don't like the Iranian Government. Nor do I trust them. I would prefer them to have International pressure put on them to insure that they are closely held to a strong agreement of non-proliferation of nuclear weapons. Nuclear power plants do not automatically equal nuclear weapons capacity (though frankly, I detest nuclear waste and the generations of vulnerability to radiation they produce and wish them off the earth).

The upshot is, Iran is proceeding with its nuclear program whether anyone likes it or not ESPECIALLY if these negotiations fall through and NO treaty is reached! Since that is reality, it is best to force them to comply with rigorous rules and inspections, and if they go outside those bounds, to punish them with International strength and powers beyond that of only the US. This opportunity to get them to submit to International pressure is too important to blow with partisan posturing and extremism.

- AB
edit on 13-3-2015 by AboveBoard because: (no reason given)

edit on 13-3-2015 by AboveBoard because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2015 @ 05:28 PM
link   
Excellent post, AB! Just a comment on this...


originally posted by: AboveBoard
The problem is Congress wants CONTROL over this process, and believes that removing sanctions = automatic nuclear bomb.


While I agree Congress wants control, I'm not sure that's as important to them (The GOP in Congress) as SCREWING Obama is. Since the day he was elected, it's been their foremost goal. Of course, they don't want Iran to have a bomb, but if that happens, they'd just deal with it like they do every other time someone doesn't do what the US says. War. And it wouldn't be pretty, but you can believe many of their mouths are watering at the prospect of having another war with another country.

Everything is secondary to screwing Obama.



posted on Mar, 13 2015 @ 05:34 PM
link   
Awesome. Screw the GOP. Seriously. Screw em, and throw with the 47 out of office.

👣



posted on Mar, 13 2015 @ 05:47 PM
link   

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
Excellent post, AB!


Thank you!


Everything is secondary to screwing Obama.


Agreed - I think that is always a prime motivating factor!!

I wanted to go beyond that to show 1) what was happening, 2) why it was happening and 3) to note the complete irrationality of NOT going to the UN at this time.

Perhaps if Obama had allowed the US to "sit on the sidelines" during these matters of International importance being discussed at the UN, we would be seeing flaming criticism of that? Hmmm....

peace,
AB

PS - thanks for reading the post, btw - its long...

edit on 13-3-2015 by AboveBoard because: (no reason given)

edit on 13-3-2015 by AboveBoard because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2015 @ 05:50 PM
link   

originally posted by: tothetenthpower
a reply to: Ahabstar

If the GOP weren't trying to undermine proper diplomatic relations between the US and Iran, then this probably would not have occurred in the first place.

The GOP congress of the last 8 years has been the most ineffective in a really long time.

It's a tit for tat battle, and the GOP started it, by literally stating that their mission during Obama's presidency, was to be disruptive and halt any and all agendas put forward by his administration.

That's not politics, it's not democracy, that's just irresponsible, ineffective and quite frankly dangerous. As it prevents the country as a whole from moving forward.

~Tenth


You can't place all of the blame at the GOP's feet. The democratic party has to shoulder some of the blame. After all, they did control the Senate until this last election and they are just as obstructionist as the Repubs. The Republican House passed a multitude of bills but good old Harry Reid wouldn't let the vast majority of them even come up for a vote in the Senate. He was obaba's shield and protector in the Senate. And I might say at that, a constitutionally criminal and treasonous obama at that. Hell, they are all treasonous at this point.



posted on Mar, 13 2015 @ 07:13 PM
link   
What is really odd is Obama gets trashed by the GOP for doing the same thing GOP hero Reagan did. From ordering airstrikes on Libya, to an Executive Order giving Amnersty to illegals, and yep you guest it an agreement with Iran that by passed Congress (like most do). Yet some how Reagan is a great hero and Obama hates America. I swear if Americans just knew a little bit of history they would understand how clueless they sound most of the time and why politicians in both parties think so little of them.



new topics

top topics



 
25
<<   2  3 >>

log in

join