Thelema/O.T.O - the real Illuminati secret society/religion

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: TheJourney

I agree. And looking into the "real" Illuminati will help as well. Both may show a completely different picture than the OP presented.

That will require hours and hours and hours of reading Crowley's own writings...NOT reading what random people have to say about him...

I seriously hope you have plenty of time...for reading Crowley that is...

First you should get a good "classical" education...degree and all.

Then settle down for a few years of work...

I, and it appears at least one other, have done this. Though I seriously doubt anyone here will want to hear what we have to say...it contradicts what people want to hear.

As for learning about the "real" illuminati...good luck. The org you want to study isn't actually called "illuminati", thus, you will become very frustrated in your attempts to learn about them...

Just as the O.T.O., the G.'. D.'. and the A.'. A.'. are secret societies, so is the Illuminati, most of what you think you know and have learned is false...by design...hence the term "secret". Members NEVER disclose what they know, and those who claim to be doing so are lying.

originally posted by: tanka418
a reply to: Lagrimas

Sorry man, but the ONLY way you learn anything about the O.T.O. or the A.'. A.'. is by becoming a member, and of course, once you do; you NEVER speak about it to the "vulgar"...that's just the way it is!

You are obviously NOT a member of either organization.

Virtually everything you seem to believe about Thelema is vastly incorrect.

93!

Well for the A ∴ A ∴, one could learn a good amount by following their Curriculum.
www.the-equinox.org...

Some interesting and creepy replies to the OP.

If you follow Wilcock he said that the Illuminati believe they are descendants of Cain, that when Adam and Eve were in the garden, the "biting of the apple" was actually representative of her coupling with Satan. And so Abel was Adams child and Cain was Satan's child, apparently. And Tubal-Cain, being a descendant of Cain, is represented in James Bond 007(two balls and a Cain = 007). As far as whether or not any of this is true, who knows.

I'm sure they believe that it was the group of ET's that was banished to this solar system like 5 million years ago that actually were the "fallen angels" and took refuge on earth after being attacked by other ETs whom they had angered (again, according to Wilcock, the Progenitors) that eventually took refuge in North Africa and then mated with earth women, and were represented by the apple in the garden of eden. Giants with red hair, persecuted across the galaxy and banished to our solar system, taking refuge in asteroids and moons that they had hollowed and built out. 'There were giants on the earth in those days' as talked about in the book of Enoch. Whether or not the elite truly believe this, that they are descendants of Cain well, perhaps. The 007 symbol is on masonic rings, Crowley used it, etc.

There are so many different data points that putting together the entire picture would be extraordinarily difficult. For those interested in what he wrote about and if any of it rings a bell, you can find the blog post on his website here. Some of the newer information has only recently been given from him at the talk he did at the conscious life expo, it was interesting to say the least. Whether or not its genuine or he's receiving disinformation, who knows. It's still worth looking at, in case there really are as many as 15-20 disenfranchised members of the illuminati who are willing to spill some information to guys like him. The secret space program and all of this is apparently connected and there are origins to the universe and humanity that are apparently being covered up. I wouldn't know the first thing about the veracity of the information but its interesting.

a reply to: Lagrimas

Anyone Google to see find locations of these in Hollywood and New York? I dare someone to call!

a reply to: tanka418

Actually, the confidentiality agreement that I signed for the OTO,
stated the only thing I agreed to keep secret are what occurs during
the degree rituals.

Mostly what we did, and it was open to anyone who wanted to
attend, so not too secret IMO, was exactly as you stated, we studied
Crowley's writings, but mostly in the context of a teacher with a high
degree, that would read and then stop and make various comments
as to its meaning.

I would call it comparative religious studies, mostly involving Ancient
Egyptian religions and cults, Sumerian, Greek/Roman religions,
Ancient Hebrew (more specifically The Kabala), and those were the
major ones.

A person could attend these "Magic" meetings for years and years
in order to get to a high degree


Rebel 5

a reply to: Nemo418

Actually its 93/93

Rebel 5

originally posted by: rebelv
a reply to: Nemo418

Actually its 93/93

Rebel 5

You may have misquoted the wrong person in your reply. But to get technical, it would be:



93

what up ATS!

93 93/93

... and I wanted to be the one to spring the truth about Dr. Dee being "007," darnit, nonspecfic!

Bavarian Illuminati founded 1776.

Illuminati declared illegal 1784 - 1790.

A. Crowley born 1875.

OTO founded 1895-1906.

Thelema initiated (ostensibly with the writing of Liber AL vel Legis) 1904.

If the Illuminati became underground in 1790 ... and the OTO was founded in 1895 ... what was going on in the intervening 105 years?

I mean, why wait?

S&F for a well crafted, and very interesting read.

I disagree with your assertions - but I found your perspective intriguing and well founded in concern. It sucks being on the outside looking in at something.

Thelema exists. As does the OTO. As does freemasonry and other mystery teaching societies.

However - the Illuminati - I'm not convinced that exists - beyond becoming a common term of derogatory denotation that can be applied to a variety of religions or group of people - other people tend to look hatefully upon. I've seen the Illuminant tied to - the elite, all Neo-Paganism, Satanism, Freemasonry, a secret branch of the Catholic Church, Scientology, UFOlogy, and a secret branch of government, and a secret group of Hollywood.

The OTO began as a Freemason Organization. But when Crowley entered the scene, rose up the ranks and then took over - he moved to invite mundane men and women (gasp!) into the OTO and teach them the secrets of ritual. This is when the Freemason's took their leave of the OTO. From there, the Organization moved in a different direction.

Now as far as Crowley goes, I would argue that he and fellow occultists - may have ripped open the veil that separates our world from the 'other' world. They may or may not have deliberately left this 'portal or star gate' open - and it could explain all sorts of anomalous activity. This could explain UFOs, Orbs, Abduction, Faery encounters, alien encounters, etc. It's one of my favorite pet theories to entertain.

Nice thread. I enjoyed it.

CdT

originally posted by: CirqueDeTruth
Now as far as Crowley goes, I would argue that he and fellow occultists - may have ripped open the veil that separates our world from the 'other' world. They may or may not have deliberately left this 'portal or star gate' open - and it could explain all sorts of anomalous activity. This could explain UFOs, Orbs, Abduction, Faery encounters, alien encounters, etc. It's one of my favorite pet theories to entertain.

Nice thread. I enjoyed it.

CdT

Actually, that event would be Jack Parsons...if memory serves. He performed a rather interesting operation back in the day. And, indeed! It could well explain some of the current "energies"...

I've witnessed the other side. And I've experienced the rapture of energies. So... long story short... leave it alone! It will consume you and ruin your idea of living.

a reply to: tanka418

Well - Parsons, Crowley, Hubbard, Gardner, Waite, and the whole motley crew, all ran in similar circles. I don't think that it is a stretch to suspect they had similar aims and goals in mind, and worked together to try and achieve them. It helps to achieve some of those aims and goals when you have influence and money coming in from various arena's of influence. Government (Parsons), Hollywood (Scientology), and the Occult Societies (OTO, Freemasonry, Neo-Paganism, etc.)

CdT

originally posted by: Nemo418

originally posted by: rebelv
a reply to: Nemo418

Actually its 93/93

Rebel 5

You may have misquoted the wrong person in your reply. But to get technical, it would be:



93

what up ATS!

93 93/93

lol

Sorry about that.

Rebel 5

the Olympic thing is strange!

originally posted by: CirqueDeTruth
a reply to: tanka418

Well - Parsons, Crowley, Hubbard, Gardner, Waite, and the whole motley crew, all ran in similar circles. I don't think that it is a stretch to suspect they had similar aims and goals in mind, and worked together to try and achieve them. It helps to achieve some of those aims and goals when you have influence and money coming in from various arena's of influence. Government (Parsons), Hollywood (Scientology), and the Occult Societies (OTO, Freemasonry, Neo-Paganism, etc.)

CdT

Parsons and Hubbard were friends and members of the same O.T.O. lodge in the Los Angles area. As the story goes; Hubbard made a bet with Parsons that he (Hubbard) could "invent" a religion and get people to "line up" to join...he won with a construction entirely based on Thelema...interesting thing is; today...those poor lost souls would reject the original Thelemic teachings in favor of their wholesale misunderstanding.

Gardner was an OT.O. member in England who was also into Witchcraft, he wanted to invent, or develop something a bit more modern....he asked Crowley for some pointers.

Waite, is actually the guy who got ole Uncle Al into the Occult in the first place. He wrote a reasonable famous book on "Black magic" which Crowley read and it got his interest...interestingly, it is the same book that got me interested in Magick.

Crowley stated several times that he did not approve of the notion of Order members collaborating working together. The O.T.O. kind of represents an exception to this with some of their rituals and practices. Personally I disagree with Crowley on that. At any rate, it is very unlikely that any of them. with the exception of Parsons / Hubbard, ever had the opportunity to work together, and of course, it wouldn't be approved.

As for the same goals; For the most part they were Thelemites after all...except for Waite.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
... and I wanted to be the one to spring the truth about Dr. Dee being "007," darnit, nonspecfic!

Bavarian Illuminati founded 1776.

Illuminati declared illegal 1784 - 1790.

A. Crowley born 1875.

OTO founded 1895-1906.

Thelema initiated (ostensibly with the writing of Liber AL vel Legis) 1904.

If the Illuminati became underground in 1790 ... and the OTO was founded in 1895 ... what was going on in the intervening 105 years?

I mean, why wait?

Well the answer to that is that there was no gap. in that 105 years there were two prolific arms of the spiritual illuminati, or mystery school movements... teaching curriculums not dissimilar to M'.'M'.'M'.'... the rosicrucians and the golden dawn.


On top of that are the more underground (red hexagram - ashkenazi) thule and black sun organisations - schools which in essence teach an illumination which represents getting to Kether through the left hand or geburah to chokma, specifically avoiding tiphareth and Binah by crossing through daath on the tree of life (ten sephiroth). the journey im refering to, is the most self indulgent way to kether and even into ain sof... cold, brutal, hard.

kingdom, victory, splendor,strength,knowledge, wisdom, crown. six steps... represented by the six points of the hexagram... in red because of its formulae that is specifically designed to make its journey through tree using the 'pillar of severity' in the most 'self' directed manner possible. or dum dum dum, as its also known sometimes... black magick.

Yes.... dont frikken fool yourselves, (And this is mostly directed at tanks 418 who pretends to know, and claims that I know nothing - and yet clearly, and by the casual accident of not actually knowing anything - has divulged to me and anyone else of a learned nature, with his/her own words, that he/she knows nothing of importance to do with thelemic magick, craft or ritual ...)

Ive seen a few white thelemites on here saying ... 'I hate people that try to pass thelema off as bad,' 'what a misundestanding... how vulgar... so profane!'

Just because youre a good thelemite who chooses middle pillar beauty into understanding through knowledge into mercy, then wisdom and finally crown - or the formulae of the upwardly pointing pentagram , does not mean that other more learned Magus -some ipsisimus- arent working hard at their hexagram magick, think about it...

why is the unicursal hexagram, in red, the OTO's preferred symbol ?
because it best represents their magick.

how often do you use it doing star ruby?

maybe you dont know the rituals that some other Magus use? I mean are you a perfect pontiff of the illuminati? Or even a Magus of light? No of course, I would hazard youre not even a prince of jerusalem.

Youve admitted that its secret... but then you say ohhh but i knowwww, but who are you?
And why would they tell you?

you dont seem like the type to summon a demon to me, sorry... but if you dont come across as a likely candidate to me then youre unlikely to reach certain echelons of knowledge within the school, and im sure that your superiors, at your local oasis, have also noticed that youre not the type for advancement.

Often most, without even having to be in a room with you, because having not crossed their path on the Astral, you havent even registered on their radar as a witch.

originally posted by: Lagrimas
kingdom, victory, splendor,strength,knowledge, wisdom, crown. six steps... represented by the six points of the hexagram... in red because of its formulae that is specifically designed to make its journey through tree using the 'pillar of severity' in the most 'self' directed manner possible. or dum dum dum, as its also known sometimes... black magick.

Only 6 points out of11; kind of incomplete isn't it? And that is kind of the whole point to the path of Thelema, G.: D.:, the O.T.O. and many other schools...completeness, balance, harmony.


I really wish you hadn't gone there (below) personal attack from a position of obvious ignorance is never good.

Firstly you have no idea "who" I am, especially in the Occult world...here are a few papers I've written and are available all over the Internet...

On the number 451
Enochian System V

There are some others there as well.

Yes.... dont frikken fool yourselves, (And this is mostly directed at tanks 418 who pretends to know, and claims that I know nothing - and yet clearly, and by the casual accident of not actually knowing anything - has divulged to me and anyone else of a learned nature, with his/her own words, that he/she knows nothing of importance to do with thelemic magick, craft or ritual ...)

Ya know...I almost always like it when someone challenges me...it frequently allows me to "re-think" what I "think" I know...

There used to be a website called "Ordo A.'. A.'." (the original WolfMagick domain) perhaps I should turn it back on...

I always find it amusing when someone who has read a few books or bits of information on the internet thinks they can understand esoteric knowledge that takes decades (sometimes lifetimes) to internalize and fully understand. What is so funny about it is that esoteric knowledge coming from mystery schools for centuries had to be hidden because anyone caught practicing or teaching this material would be executed as a blasphemer or heretic. Therefore, sincere material was coded in such a way that it couldn't be randomly deciphered by the uninformed. Let me give you an example...

John 14:6 -

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Do you know how many faithful spiritual people read that verse every year and have for 2000 years? It is a powerful one.

And yet, to those initiated, it also has a meaning which is not discernible by word alone. The difference is akin to take a 2D object and giving it unlimited dimensions. You can't even comprehend it unless you have been taught to decrypt and assimilate it. As I've already said, sometimes this takes lifetimes. Not something you can do in a few years unless you are Jesus Christ himself.

Matthew 7:6
"Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you."

originally posted by: tanka418

originally posted by: Lagrimas
kingdom, victory, splendor,strength,knowledge, wisdom, crown. six steps... represented by the six points of the hexagram... in red because of its formulae that is specifically designed to make its journey through tree using the 'pillar of severity' in the most 'self' directed manner possible. or dum dum dum, as its also known sometimes... black magick.

Only 6 points out of11; kind of incomplete isn't it? And that is kind of the whole point to the path of Thelema, G.: D.:, the O.T.O. and many other schools...completeness, balance, harmony.


I really wish you hadn't gone there (below) personal attack from a position of obvious ignorance is never good.

Firstly you have no idea "who" I am, especially in the Occult world...here are a few papers I've written and are available all over the Internet...

On the number 451
Enochian System V

There are some others there as well.

Yes.... dont frikken fool yourselves, (And this is mostly directed at tanks 418 who pretends to know, and claims that I know nothing - and yet clearly, and by the casual accident of not actually knowing anything - has divulged to me and anyone else of a learned nature, with his/her own words, that he/she knows nothing of importance to do with thelemic magick, craft or ritual ...)

Ya know...I almost always like it when someone challenges me...it frequently allows me to "re-think" what I "think" I know...

There used to be a website called "Ordo A.'. A.'." (the original WolfMagick domain) perhaps I should turn it back on...

there is no way not to personal attack u when u are making glaring historical mistakes in your replies dude. sorry. parsons was involved in the moon child operation. crowley opened the hole to draw the 93s current in boleskin loch ness.
gardner was not wanting to start some similar witch thing and got advice from crowley, crowley trained him in as much of the myseteries as he could when he was ill and getting iller and getting worried that keneth grant was going to get the oto, who he had realised by the he did not want... keneth like william breeze likes changing things... crowley for all his faults, despite having large reservations about the laws of thelema as expressed in the book of the law, because he had such a deep relationship with budhism, and felt that its tennets though inperfect at times suited him better than the spiritual movement which he was the prophet for. torn. Gardner - the most evil witch that ever lived, just look at his face and compare it to rockerfellers face and pope ratzinger - all exactly the same amount of powerful madness in the face. the face rarely lies. Gardner didnt get advice, he got tought almost everything n ran off for america to start wicca with what crowley had taught him - outright theft.

originally posted by: tanka418

originally posted by: Lagrimas
kingdom, victory, splendor,strength,knowledge, wisdom, crown. six steps... represented by the six points of the hexagram... in red because of its formulae that is specifically designed to make its journey through tree using the 'pillar of severity' in the most 'self' directed manner possible. or dum dum dum, as its also known sometimes... black magick.

Only 6 points out of11; kind of incomplete isn't it? And that is kind of the whole point to the path of Thelema, G.: D.:, the O.T.O. and many other schools...completeness, balance, harmony.


I really wish you hadn't gone there (below) personal attack from a position of obvious ignorance is never good.

Firstly you have no idea "who" I am, especially in the Occult world...here are a few papers I've written and are available all over the Internet...

On the number 451
Enochian System V

There are some others there as well.

Yes.... dont frikken fool yourselves, (And this is mostly directed at tanks 418 who pretends to know, and claims that I know nothing - and yet clearly, and by the casual accident of not actually knowing anything - has divulged to me and anyone else of a learned nature, with his/her own words, that he/she knows nothing of importance to do with thelemic magick, craft or ritual ...)

Ya know...I almost always like it when someone challenges me...it frequently allows me to "re-think" what I "think" I know...

There used to be a website called "Ordo A.'. A.'." (the original WolfMagick domain) perhaps I should turn it back on...

u also claim that AA has more member than OTO. absurd. the reading list and entry exams are so hard that i know an OTOer that has been in OTO for generations and failed miserably to get past stage one of AA involvement. Its proper tough, and its membership is miniscule.