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Christian Thread: My opinion on the 12 Universal Laws

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posted on Mar, 13 2015 @ 02:29 PM
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originally posted by: Seede
a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1




1st John 3:9 is referencing Jesus the Son of God who cannot sin and is the only begotten of God. No man is born of God except Jesus. That is why Jesus is unique in that He is the only begotten of God. All of the rest of procreation is born of man and not born of God. Jesus' seed remained in Him as He was without sin. You must take verse 8 and verse 9 together to understand John. I have noted that you have presented this several times.



Just one question.
If Jesus is "Son of God", why does He called himself "Son of Man"?




posted on Mar, 13 2015 @ 03:58 PM
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a reply to: Seede

That might work BUT notice how John says that someone who is born of God cannot go on sinning, implying that who he is talking about had sinned before, hence "cannot go on/continue to sin".


1 John 5
3 In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome, 4 for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. 5 Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.


John also says that anyone who believes Jesus was the Son of God has overcome the world and that those who overcome the world have been born of God.

Your explanation is eisegesis, Jesus was not the only person born of God. You're looking at the text in a way to uphold your preconceived notions.

Those who are born of God cannot go on sinning. If you are still a sinner then you have not overcome the world and God does not listen to you.



posted on Mar, 13 2015 @ 04:11 PM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1




I apologize for making fun of your beliefs. I just see you accusing me of being possessed and led by demons quite a bit and I find that a bit disrespectful in itself.


You were simply mocking me, and you had no means by which you were acting in love. I tell you those things out of love and care for your soul. I think it would be more disrespectful of me to be dismissive of your spiritual experience as a whole. I simply have a different interpretation of your experience just as you do mine.



posted on Mar, 13 2015 @ 04:24 PM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1




Yet you attributed a snake being able to talk as the work of Lucifer. Seems as though Satan has the same abilities as your God, giving a voice to things that shouldn't.


......So because Satan can posses an animal, and because God made an animal talk you have drawn the conclusion they are the same entity....thats not rational at all...

I can train a dog. Hitler can train a dog. I must be Hitler....




One says Satan, the other says God. Maybe they're one and the same. The bible does say Satan masquerades as an angel of light.


Or maybe if you would start trying to find the answers else where in the Bible before you conjure up something that fits your fancy you might not have all these misunderstandings..


Job 1
12 And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord.

Here we have Satan going to screw with Job.

Job 2
3 The LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered My servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man fearing God and turning away from evil. And he still holds fast his integrity, although you incited Me against him to ruin him without cause."

The same thing is occurring in 1 Chronicles and 2 Samuel.



posted on Mar, 13 2015 @ 04:26 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Why do you have such a chip on your shoulder when it comes to Christianity??



posted on Mar, 13 2015 @ 04:31 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs




They were not 'real people', not "a couple" named Adam and Eve, the latter of which was made of "Adam's rib". COMMON SENSE 'implies' (not 'applies') that those sections are DEFINITELY to be taken metaphorically.


I said it was my opinion. I disagree with you on the whole common sense thing. There is nothing in the text that implies that is metaphor.




Do you think the characters in Harry Potter are real, just because someone wrote a book about them? Or the characters in The Wizard of Oz, or Star Wars, or the Lord of the RIngs?


Faulty Comparison Fallacy....you are just chalked full of fallacies arent you




Good Gawd, some days on here are like trying to have an intelligent conversation with people in a Sheltered Workshop.


Ad Hominem



posted on Mar, 13 2015 @ 04:38 PM
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a reply to: Abednego




Is possible that the word was a mistranslation. Remember that Satan is usually associated with a dragon.


He is, but he is also called the ancient serpent. One could easily interpret that it was a dragon though. I see where you get that.



posted on Mar, 13 2015 @ 04:40 PM
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a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb


Why do you have such a chip on your shoulder when it comes to Christianity??

There you go, doing it again! I am not a "Christ hater" - I am against adults teaching their little kids that this crap is the truth.
Because it isn't - and it damages little kids for them to hear, and believe, that they are worthless sinners who deserve to go to hell, and force (teach?!) them to recite, without even knowing what the words mean, that

"We are not worthy so much as to gather up the crumbs under thy Table. "

en.wikipedia.org...

That crap, right there ^^ Is crap. It's crap. And THAT is the 'chip' I have on my shoulder.
I'm exhausted with people thinking they don't stand a chance against a horrible world. I'm disgusted that kids are taught like this to just sit down, shut up, and accept - and BELIEVE - that they suck.

CHRIST (Jesus, whoever) did NOT say that! He did NOT say we all suck.
He said we are all the same as he is, and can do not only what he did but even more.

My "chip" is that you proselytizers and pentecostals and evangelicals (and whoever-the-hell-else you think you are to try to make others feel bad every day)...
try to make EVERYONE feel crappy with all your might.

YOU TRY to make people feel like they suck, so that you can lord it over them.

Whatever.




edit on 3/13/2015 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2015 @ 04:40 PM
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a reply to: Abednego




A book with a mix of some real facts with a lot of not so real facts with the purpose to inspired and teach a lesson.


Are you simply saying this because it makes supernatural claims or is there some other reason?



posted on Mar, 13 2015 @ 04:46 PM
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originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Abednego

Did Adam and Eve really have free will? God, as the myth goes, told them they could "eat" of any tree except one. If they could "do" anything but one "thing", If they do the one thing, God promised they would die, even though they should have had no concept of death. Is that free will? I think not.

If Adam and Eve DID have free will. then exercising it wouldn't have been evil or wrong. Exercising free will, in disobedience of God could not be a sin, it would have been an initiation.

When our children mature to a certain degree, we send them off into the wild word to live on their own, lest they live off us forever! It a wonderful and exciting time, for most young people.

By the way, I agree with Caladonea, the story of Adam and Eve is allegory for the human condition, not history.





Yes it's free will. If I tell you that you shouldn't drink bleach because it will kill you, does that mean I have removed your free will to drink bleach?



posted on Mar, 13 2015 @ 04:46 PM
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a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

I am saying it because it is no different than telling a young child that there is no hope unless they do it "your way."
I am not a strict materialist - I actually pay a lot of attention to so-called "supernatural" phenomena.

I don't think that a bunch of desert-dwellers 2000 to 1400 years ago understood that the universe works in ways that we DON'T UNDERSTAND.

I am saying it because it is a load of propaganda, and grows self-loathing, submissiveness, and disdain for self and others. Do you believe that Zeus, or Thor, or Odin are real?
What about Harry Potter - is he real?
And....Achilles? Hercules? Ulysses? Santa Claus? Dionysus? The Easter Bunny?

THE STORIES ARE JUST STORIES. Spun to appeal to weak people who aren't able to function without a crutch.
Lame.

edit on 3/13/2015 by BuzzyWigs because: Trying to get my dates of the insanity straight.



posted on Mar, 13 2015 @ 04:49 PM
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a reply to: Abednego

I see the OT God is taking more the role of a stern parent with an extremely young child. How much free reign do you give your child? But does that stop them from having their own will and just because you often stop them, maybe even punish them for being willful, does that mean they don't have free will?



posted on Mar, 13 2015 @ 04:50 PM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Satan has quite a few powers than allow him to counterfeit God. He is not the Father of Lies for nothing, and there is a reason why he will deceive so many in the end. Take care that he doesn't deceive you.



posted on Mar, 13 2015 @ 04:53 PM
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a reply to: Abednego

Ah!
Hablo Espanol tambien (pero no tengo el "keyboard" preparado para usar las letras).



posted on Mar, 13 2015 @ 04:54 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko


Satan has quite a few powers than allow him to counterfeit God. He is not the Father of Lies for nothing, and there is a reason why he will deceive so many in the end. Take care that he doesn't deceive you.

There is no Satan. Holy cow! You seem to be an intelligent person - what blockaded your ability to see TRUTH??



posted on Mar, 13 2015 @ 04:59 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs

First you don't know that its not the truth. Second its quite apparent that humans are sinners, whether that leads to hell or not. Are you really saying its bad to teach your kids that not all of their natural urges are good? What if you had a kid and they had the urge to sexually harass other boys and girls at school? Would you just condone that behavior ?

So the reason you troll my theads is because your upset that your sinner, and that your not good enough to get into a place where no evil exist....sounds to me like your just in denial....



posted on Mar, 13 2015 @ 05:06 PM
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a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb


Are you really saying its bad to teach your kids that not all of their natural urges are good?


Like - what? Taking an extra cookie? Lying?
No - of course not.


What if you had a kid

I have two, actually - and they're all grown up and functioning very well in this situation that we have at hand..


and they had the urge to sexually harass other boys and girls at school? Would you just condone that behavior ?

They never did that - because I taught them to have compassion. WITHOUT RELIGION. They are good people. It never got that far. On the other hand - kids who have crap parents might do that - but just because someone is not "Christian" or "religious" does not mean that they are evil harassers of other people. In fact - the "Christians" seem to be doing a dazzlingly good job of sexually harassing other kids who are different....and the adults are quite enthusiastically aboard with that thinking.



So the reason you troll my theads is because your upset that your sinner


LOL!!! In what way am I a 'sinner'?


, and that your not good enough to get into a place where no evil exist....sounds to me like your just in denial....

Sounds to me like you are insane.
edit on 3/13/2015 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2015 @ 05:12 PM
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a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb


So the reason you troll my theads

"TROLL" your threads?

Friend, if you put Bible-Thumping proselytizing threads on here, you are accepting the probability that others will disagree with you.
If you want to start your own website and disallow comments or dissension, please, by all means do so.
But don't come on ATS and expect that your threads in this forum will be 'applauded' and no one will 'object.'



posted on Mar, 13 2015 @ 05:16 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs




Like - what? Taking an extra cookie? Lying? No - of course not.


Ok, well teaching your kid that they are a sinner is teaching them that all of their natural urges are not good, and that they will occasionally give into those that are bad. So really you taught your kids the same thing you just don't call it sin.




They never did that - because I taught them to have compassion. WITHOUT RELIGION. They are good people.


It was a hypothetical to make a point. By what moral standard are your children good people? By what standard did you decide compassion was a worthy attribute to instill in your children? I can tell that you misunderstand the moral argument from the Christian side, because you are already doing into we are good people without religion!!!! When I haven't even brought up the idea that your actual kids were "bad people"although your kids are sinners
) .




LOL!!! I what way am I a 'sinner'?


In what way? You have sinned, therefore you are a sinner. I mean do I really have to ask your simple questions like have you lied? of course you have your human.



posted on Mar, 13 2015 @ 05:18 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs

I wouldn't have a issue if you actually brought something intellectual to the table, but as it stands all I get is Ad hominem attacks and truckloads of logical fallacies.



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