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Exclusive: From 'Red October' village, new evidence on downing of Malaysian plane over Ukraine

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posted on Mar, 16 2015 @ 06:16 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

The SU-25 did attack possible later when MH17 had lost altitude already.




posted on Mar, 16 2015 @ 06:17 PM
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a reply to: peck420

Of course.. However the purpose of my question was specifically directed at him. He claimed the western media lied about the info with regards to the rebels cutting the plane up. What he failed to understand in his accusation is the western media only reported on what the OSCE was stating.

My question to him is which entity is lying based on his comment - The western media or the OSCE, which Russia is a member of. His failure to answer thus far is humorous and gives me the answer I expected. Failure to do due diligence backed him into a corner he cant get out of, so he ignores the question.

He cant support the claim the western media was reporting as propaganda since they weren't the ones making the claims in the first place. He wont touch the OSCE because it means Russia would be involved and he wont speak ill of Russia.

edit on 16-3-2015 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 16 2015 @ 06:18 PM
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originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: Xcathdra

The SU-25 did attack possible later when MH17 had lost altitude already.


No it didn't and there is no evidence to support that.

You just make changes on the fly when the facts, from sources you use, don't support your claim. The plane disintegrated in mid air from the initial BUK. It was not intact as it came down based on how far apart the wreckage is.

No aircraft was used.
edit on 16-3-2015 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 16 2015 @ 06:19 PM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Except that the data from the FDR shows an immediate explosion without an altitude loss. This is backed up by the debris field. The aircraft exploded at altitude, not after dropping lower.
edit on 3/16/2015 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 16 2015 @ 06:21 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

If you have read exactly what it said, it could have been done only to get to the bodies (they were decomposing)....but as usual, that part got blind sided by you, because you have not other interest in to pin it on Putin.



posted on Mar, 16 2015 @ 06:25 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

I didn`t know all of the FDR has been made public, only a preliminary assessment and it was still under investigation...besides, with a cover up they can say anything about that, have you seen the actual results yourself?



posted on Mar, 16 2015 @ 06:26 PM
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originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: Xcathdra

If you have read exactly what it said, it could have been done only to get to the bodies (they were decomposing)....but as usual, that part got blind sided by you, because you have not other interest in to pin it on Putin.


That was mentioned specifically for only one part of the aircraft and was giving the benefit of the doubt.

by all means explain the rest.
edit on 16-3-2015 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 16 2015 @ 06:27 PM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien

So you're still going with a plane able to explode at a mile and a half altitude, and throw huge pieces of debris five miles or more? That plane was at or vertu near cruising altitude when it exploded to have a debris field that big.



posted on Mar, 16 2015 @ 06:32 PM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien




The SU-25 did attack possible later when MH17 had lost altitude already.


If an Su 25 was flying close enough to that plane at a lower height would have been shot down by the separatists, just as they did before MH17.

So why would Ukraine allow a plane to hang around enemy territory and take the chance of it being shot just to shoot a plane that is already broken up?



posted on Mar, 16 2015 @ 06:35 PM
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originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: Zaphod58

I didn`t know all of the FDR has been made public, only a preliminary assessment and it was still under investigation...besides, with a cover up they can say anything about that, have you seen the actual results yourself?


DUTCH SAFETY BOARD Preliminary report Crash involving Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777-200 flight MH17 Hrabove, Ukraine - 17 July 2014 - ** PDF LINK**


At 13.20:00 hrs, Dnipro Control transmitted an onward ATC clearance to proceed direct to TIKNA after RND, no acknowledgement was received. Data from the Flight Data Recorder and the Digital Cockpit Voice Recorder both stopped
at 13.20:03 hrs. No distress messages were received from the aircraft.




2�3 Damage to the aircraft
The aircraft was destroyed. Wreckage was dispersed over a large area.




2.5.3
Other traffic
According to information received from the NBAAI, recorded ATC surveillance information revealed that three other commercial airliners overflew the same restricted airspace as flight MH17 around the time of the occurrence. Two of those aircraft were cruising eastbound and one was cruising westbound. All were under control of Dnipro Radar. At
13.20 hrs the distance between MH17 and the closest of the three aircraft was approximately 30 kilometres. Analyses is ongoing.


So Russian radar is so sophisticated it can detect / identify an SU-25 yet completely fail to note other civilian air traffic in the immediate area?



2.9.2 Cockpit voice recorder

Damage
The housing of the CVR (figure 4) had been damaged and, although the model and serial numbers were unreadable on the data plate, the serial number 1366 - matching the one provided by Malaysia Airlines - was found stamped on the underside of the chassis. The
external damage found on the CVR is consistent with impact damage, the internal memory module was intact. The recording capacity of this recorder is 30 minutes. The full 30 minutes were successfully downloaded and contained valid data from the
flight.

Figure 4: Cockpit voice recorder. (Source: AAIB) Information

The replay of the CVR matched ATC communications with the aircraft (see ATC transcript). The recording also included crew communication which gave no indication that there was anything abnormal with the flight. The CVR audio recording ended abruptly. A replay
of the CVR did not identify any aircraft aural warnings or alerts of system malfunctions. Detailed analysis is ongoing




Information
The data on the Flight Data Recorder indicated that the aircraft was flying at FL330, on a constant displayed heading of 115° and at a constant speed of 293 kts computed airspeed (groundspeed 494 kts, equals 915 kilometres per hour). According to the data on the FDR, both engines were running at cruise power. All indications regarding the operation of the engines were normal.
No aircraft system warnings or cautions were detected. The data stopped abruptly at 13.20:03 hrs. Relevant details from the FDR recordings are published in Appendix A (last 3 minutes). Detailed analysis is ongoing.

edit on 16-3-2015 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 16 2015 @ 06:36 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

I read Robbert Parry, and he says he has a source in the US intelligence, do you have that also?



posted on Mar, 16 2015 @ 06:38 PM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien

What does physics have to do with a source in the Intel community? A plane at low altitude can't leave a debris field that big without an explosion big enough to damage buildings on the ground. Even then it's doubtful that it could throw pieces as big as we saw here over five miles.



posted on Mar, 16 2015 @ 06:44 PM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien




Source


Consortium news...really?

How about something that hasn't shown how pro Russian they are with their articles?



posted on Mar, 16 2015 @ 06:56 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

Where are your credentials that you`re able to confirm that statement ?

You have been saying the same thing without any backing whatsoever the whole time, so are you an expert or are you only just speculating?
edit on 16 3 2015 by BornAgainAlien because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 16 2015 @ 07:22 PM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Almost 30 years of experience working on more types of aircraft than I can remember. First hand experience with some crash scenes, plus reading reports and studying just about every major crash that has ever happened.



posted on Mar, 17 2015 @ 02:11 AM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

So you have worked on which cases involved regarding airliners exploding during flights at heights of 10km and 7 km ?

And can you show me some of your analysis on debris patterns on different heights and about analysis from fragmentation on aircraft coming from BUK, KUB and a combination where by also a jetfighter could have been involved?



posted on Mar, 17 2015 @ 02:15 AM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien

As soon as you show me a single crash in which an aircraft exploded at low altitude and threw large pieces of fuselage and engines miles away from the impact site.
edit on 3/17/2015 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2015 @ 02:22 AM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

It`s not for me to proof to anything, because I haven`t been pushing only one possibility.

All you do is nothing more as say the same thing without an actual analysis, I have brought in already several different analysis to the discussion about what also could have happened. And you`re response is always the same, "it can`t have happened that way because I say so!"



posted on Mar, 17 2015 @ 02:37 AM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien

No, because physics says so. You linked to someone claiming the aircraft exploded at very low altitude. There has never been a crash where an aircraft exploded at low altitude and left a debris field where the tail was found five miles from the impact site. It's physically impossible for it to travel that far, in the complete opposite direction of its momentum without a massive impetus pushing it. Anything that could push something that big, that far would have leveled any structure below it.

Parts of the engine pod were found 4.7 miles from the engines themselves. We're not talking light debris, we're taking major structure of the aircraft. Somehow it exploded at low altitude and flew by miles and no one heard a massive explosion, and nothing on the ground had a mark on it.

You want to claim that the aircraft descended and exploded, but when the FDR is brought up the first thing you say is cover up. You keep saying that you're open to possibilities, but all I've ever heard from you is a fighter did it.



posted on Mar, 17 2015 @ 03:03 AM
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a reply to: Zaphod58




You linked to someone claiming the aircraft exploded at very low altitude.


Because that's what he does.

Credible sources don't matter when it comes to Ukraine...as whatever someone says that might make Russia and the separatists out to be the victims in this conflict is the truth.




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