Born Again - what is it?

a reply to: iNobody

It is because you absolutely fail to demonstrate that respect in a practical manner, not that i require it. But what you think you transmit would appear to be quite different from that which is actually transmitted.

originally posted by: skalla
a reply to: iNobody

It is because you absolutely fail to demonstrate that respect in a practical manner, not that i require it. But what you think you transmit would appear to be quite different from that which is actually transmitted.

That is possible. If so I do apologize. I wonder why that is though. Perhaps I can learn something.

a reply to: iNobody

(Hebrews 4:12) For the word of God is alive and exerts power and is sharper than any two-edged sword and pierces even to the dividing of soul and spirit, and of joints from the marrow, and is able to discern thoughts and intentions of the heart.


God's word is not stagnant. It is not the word of man. It is alive. It exerts power. It is able to read into your thoughts and your inner-most intentions.

It is like a mirror it shows you who you are.

Many, when they read something in His word that reflects negatively on them, reject it. They look for excuses to deny it is from God, and thus assuage that voice that is talking to them from above.

Only the humble and meek, thus can understand his word. It does not matter how much you know or study. Because ultimately, it all comes down to how much you love God's word.

And there is one more thing you should know. When Jesus came to earth and sent his followers by 2's to go and preach door to door he gave them this command:

(Matthew 10:11-15) . . .“Into whatever city or village you enter, search out who in it is deserving, and stay there until you leave. 12 When you enter the house, greet the household. 13 If the house is deserving, let the peace you wish it come upon it; but if it is not deserving, let the peace from you return upon you. 14 Wherever anyone does not receive you or listen to your words, on going out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet. 15 Truly I say to you, it will be more endurable for the land of Sod′om and Go·mor′rah on Judgment Day than for that city.


Yes, if the household, or the city, were to accept his followers, the peace that came with them would fall upon that household. That peace is God's holy spirit. And without God's holy spirit you cannot understand truth. If you reject Jesus' followers, and the peace they bring you, you reject the holy spirit. And thus, you will never come to an understanding of truth.

This is deeper than most here want to hear, but it is truth. And no one without humility would ever be able to comprehend it. Even though it is so clear and easy to understand.

a reply to: iNobody

And it is not remiss on me that this was taken out of the "recent posts."

That is someone is watching, and doesn't want others to read this.

originally posted by: iNobody
There was a post here where I explained my understanding of being born again. I will look it up for you....

Here is the post

Thank you for responding. I was aware of your earlier post, but what I was asking for was a more personal (less scriptures) accounting of what you actually are experiencing - and not just some general description of having a spiritual being growing inside you, etc.

What are the specific transformations of your body-mind that are actually happening, in terms of energy, processes, ecstasy, love, surrender, devotion, the light above, being taken over by grace, miracles, etc.?

Or are you mainly just assuming this rebirth is now simply a matter of belief for you in the work this spiritual creature inside you is doing, and that when you die, if you remained a true believer, you go to heaven alongside Jesus and become a priest to help rule over the world?

If this is too personal of a request concerning the details of your experience, for a public forum, I understand. But you did start this thread, so I assumed you would be expecting such questions.

originally posted by: bb23108

originally posted by: iNobody
There was a post here where I explained my understanding of being born again. I will look it up for you....

Here is the post

Thank you for responding. I was aware of your earlier post, but what I was asking for was a more personal (less scriptures) accounting of what you actually are experiencing - and not just some general description of having a spiritual being growing inside you, etc.

What are the specific transformations of your body-mind that are actually happening, in terms of energy, processes, ecstasy, love, surrender, devotion, the light above, being taken over by grace, miracles, etc.?

Or are you mainly just assuming this rebirth is now simply a matter of belief for you in the work this spiritual creature inside you is doing, and that when you die, if you remained a true believer, you go to heaven alongside Jesus and become a priest to help rule over the world?

If this is too personal of a request concerning the details of your experience, for a public forum, I understand. But you did start this thread, so I assumed you would be expecting such questions.

Nothing is assumption on my part. Not anything I wrote down in this entire thread.

Give me time to think about what you've said. Maybe, your servant, who is no one, may say more.

a reply to: bb23108

bb23108,

You have found something in me no one else has until now, that I might reveal more to you.

Yes, I was born-again. It was in October of 2008. Not that long ago. I was in my bed praying to Jehovah, after my wife had gone to sleep. While I was praying I was asked if I still meant what I said in a prayer when I was 13, and I replied I will accept whatever your will is. And I was anointed with holy spirit and adopted as a son of God.

At first I did not believe. I got up from bed, and awoke my wife and asked her if she felt what I had felt. And she told me, no, let me go back to sleep. And I did.

Then I went out to my living room and grabbed a Bible. And said a prayer asking for forgiveness for being so presumptuous to think I had received the anointing to spirit life. And opened the Bible and it landed on these verses:

(Matthew 19:28) . . .“Truly I say to you, in the re-creation, when the Son of man sits down on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will sit on 12 thrones, judging the 12 tribes of Israel.

I I KNEW that this was a pact being made between Jesus and myself. And I rejected it and denied it.

The next few days as I went to work all I could think about was the anointing. And when I went for walks along the river where I lived I looked into the sky and perceived Jehovah looking down upon me. And still I rejected what had happened. And I would ask Jehovah for forgiveness in prayer and say, I am no one, my father, I am the least of all people. forgive me for thinking I have been chosen. And I would feel guilty for the choosing.

Then a few days later on my way home from work, I put on my IPOD to listen to some music, and somehow, without my knowledge this started to play:

(Ephesians 1:18-23) . . .He has enlightened the eyes of your heart, so that you may know to what hope he called you, what glorious riches he holds as an inheritance for the holy ones, 19 and how surpassing the greatness of his power is toward us believers. It is according to the operation of the mightiness of his strength, 20 which he exercised toward Christ when he raised him up from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, 21 far above every government and authority and power and lordship and every name that is named, not only in this system of things but also in that to come. 22 He also subjected all things under his feet and made him head over all things with regard to the congregation, 23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills up all things in all.

And I knew those words were meant for me. Not that I am anyone. And over and over I refused to accept them, and then Jehovah showed me these words, in frustration with me, perhaps, or just trying to correct me:

(Romans 9:16, 17) 16 So, then, it depends, not on a person’s desire or on his effort, but on God, who has mercy. 17 . . .


After which I stopped denying what happened and accepted it. Afterwards much hardship and suffering befell your servant and his family. We were accused of things I had never done or had ever imagined doing. I had to eventually flee for my liberty from where I lived.

Where I live now, those who I worship with in charge have much resentment of me and show hatred toward me. I have learned the anointing means loss. Loss of liberty, loss of friendship. Hatred from those who you thought were your friends. And I never hated any of them, or accused any of them falsely.

And yet. daily I am in danger of my life and liberty. I never did anything to deserve it, but have learned it is one of the reasons I was chosen. To understand the poor, the neglected, the false-accused, the ones who run in innocence. Those who have hatred thrown at them for being good.

Much, much, much more has gone on since then. If you are truly indeed anointed, expect tribulation, and hatred. That is what I can say from a personal perspective. And it doesn't mean anything. For only God will reward, when the time comes, those who remain faithful to him.

a reply to: iNobody
That is quite a confession, sir. Thank you.

I have a few more questions, if you will. What exactly did the anointing feel like? Was it the Holy Spirit fully descending and filling the heart and whole body-mind, were you gazing upward to the Light above, were you deeply surrendered at the time of the anointing, or ... ?

I am sorry you are feeling persecuted by others! People can feel threatened by spiritual matters, and you should take this into account when speaking to them. Obviously, you need to be very sensitive to whomever you are speaking with, and not provoke them beyond what actually immediately serves them - and also take into account any "betrayed victim" tendency in yourself you might have to "encourage" them to persecute you.

Your mission can be a happy one of spreading Jesus' essential message about loving and surrendering to God completely with the whole body-mind, etc., and one's neighbor as oneself.

If this is your main mission, and you live these two great commandments as best as you can, surrendered to the Divine in life, and this surrender shows all over you, then you will likely not make yourself into a target, but actually serve people.

Do you feel you have been given a specific mission beyond being a good example of Christianity?

a reply to: iNobody

No amount of words can describe it, it is an experience only understood by those who live it and breathe it. It has outward signs of its taking place but the experience and change is something no one can explain - no matter how much you may like to try.

God Bless.

a reply to: iNobody

Originally posted by iNobody
Would a God of love be capable of destroying wickedness? Perhaps you may not think so. Although may scriptures indicate he is.

But you haven’t really listened to my posts, I never said God wasn’t going to deal with wickedness, you’re painting/twisting my view of things in a false light, either deliberately, or through not understanding my perspective….

I said in my previous posts , that God deals with wickedness but only through spiritual means, and not by destroying people physically.

Originally posted by iNobody
And not because he is hasty to anger, in fact he himself says of himself that he is gracious, merciful, ready to pardon error, and slow to anger. But he also says that he will not keep the wicked from punishment. That is where his sense of justice comes into play, and tempers his love:

(Exodus 34:6, 7) . . .Jehovah, Jehovah, a God merciful and compassionate, slow to anger and abundant in loyal love and truth, 7 showing loyal love to thousands, pardoning error and transgression and sin, but he will by no means leave the guilty unpunished, bringing punishment for the error of fathers upon sons and upon grandsons, upon the third generation and upon the fourth generation.”

That verse that you posted above, could just as easily be coming from a spiritual perspective, rather than meaning God destroys people physically.

Originally posted by iNobody
It is difficult for me to continue reasoning with you, because you already don't believe God's word, but act like an expert on it. Knowing where it is pagan, where it is lying, and where it is telling the truth.

Again you are twisting my words and perspective;

I said in my previous posts that I believe that parts of Gods word, has become misinterpreted by men, and some of them only came only from men's traditions; I still believe some parts are Gods truth…so stating that I don’t believe in “Gods word”, is not an accurate description of what I’ve been saying…you’re clearly not understanding my perspective…

And also, I never said I was an expert on the Bible, but I clearly have some knowledge obviously; But stating “I’m acting like an expert”, is a completely childish thing to say…what do you want me to do, act like I don’t know anything about the scriptures…???

Originally posted by iNobody
With a person like that you can make up any belief system you want, and reason away any scripture that doesn't fit your own beliefs. When they go against what God says you can just ignore his word. Which you have done repeatedly. I respect your right to do so.

I’m not trying to make up my own belief system; I’m only pointing out that there is a higher truth to be found, if people would only search for it.

Men have made mistakes IMO and some of those mistakes were compounded down through the texts…unfortunately people like yourself, are still following men's words, in part, thinking that they are from God…Jesus message shows otherwise…

For example, there’s a verse in the ( can’t remember the exact verse number of the top of my head) NT where the Pharisees were wondering why Jesus disciples weren’t washing their hands, because this was part of Gods laws etc…what does Jesus point out; he points out that they were just following men's traditions…According to the Bible there were tons of other things that Jesus did and spoke etc…which weren’t all put down into writing…

My point is, that Jesus warned people about Just following men's traditions, thinking that they came from God etc…if Jesus words point out something from the Old Testament, that is not from God, which men believed and continue to believe to this day, is from God; then that’s a serious cause for concern…IMO

Originally posted by iNobody
That is where I and everyone else differ here. It is hard to find someone who really loves God's word, and puts faith in all of it. But that is what love requires. You see, if you were to imitate God's love you would believe his word, for that is what love does:

(1 Corinthians 13:4-7) 4 Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous. It does not brag, does not get puffed up, 5 does not behave indecently, does not look for its own interests, does not become provoked. It does not keep account of the injury. 6 It does not rejoice over unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth. 7 It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

Love, among other things mentioned in the scripture above, "believes all things" that comes forth from Jehovah's mouth that he inspired to be put in the Holy Scriptures for our benefit.

That's complete FALSE; that verse (1 Corinthians 13:4-7) is just describing Love itself…It does not mean, believe ALL scriptures…you’re reading too much into it…

And I already stated in another post, that I accept Jesus words, but not the corrupted interpretations about Gods words, that only came from men; you’re clearly not listening to anything that I’ve posted…

Jesus doesn’t say anywhere in the Bible, that you have to believe ALL scripture, to love God;

Jesus says all those who keep the commandments love God, or words to that effect…below…

John 14:21
21 Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.’

And

1 John 5:3
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

Originally posted by iNobody
Human philosophy can only dilute and twist his word, and comparing it to paganism can only still further blind you, leaving fetters over your eyes so that you cannot see the good news.

I’ve only mentioned in ONE, sentence, that the Bible has Pagan elements in it. Pagan aspects have not formed any part of my main argument, throughout the majority of these replies… And you’ve yet to refute anything that I stated in my first three replies to you…

Plus my philosophy, as you call it, is not coming from outside; it’s coming from the Bible and Jesus words!!!

Originally posted by iNobody
Your denial of scripture where it does not fit your beliefs, and your falsely accusing them to be full of pagan ideas reminds me of these scriptures from the healthful word of truth:

Just to repeat what I said above; I’ve only mentioned the Pagan element in ONE sentence, in one post…I’ve used reason and Gods/Jesus words, for the majority of this discussion…


ETA - You’re either twisting my words around deliberately, or you just don’t understand anything that I am trying to point out to you…

And again, you didn’t even state whether you were “Born Again” or not, in your reply to me, or whether you just didn’t wish to say…I was asking for confirmation either way, but you completely ignored it…why would anybody do that

And just to add, my reply above would have been exactly the same, had I been on ATS last night, prior to your reply post to bb23108…


Because of all of the above…your replies need to seriously improve, or this conversation is over…


- JC

a reply to: bb23108

Originally posted by bb23108
Your whole post is excellent! Thank you.


Yes, Jesus clearly intended his true followers to be initiated during their physical lifetime into the kingdom of God, the Light above, where the flesh body is understood to be fleeting and mortal, and the Light above is the source of eternal communion with the Divine.

Such was their rebirth even while they lived on earth.

Sorry I missed your post, I was too wrapped up in my discussion with inobody…

But yes, thank you for appreciating my post, I’m glad there’s at least someone on this thread, who can see the truth in it…

Funnily enough, that word (G1492) is also translated as “enter”, in a few other different Bible translations of John3:3 ; but I believe the coming to “know” the Kingdom within, is also how one truly “enters” it.


- JC

originally posted by: Joecroft
Funnily enough, that word (G1492) is also translated as “enter”, in a few other different Bible translations of John3:3 ; but I believe the coming to “know” the Kingdom within, is also how one truly “enters” it.

- JC

Thank you for your posts - I find them to be very clear.

Yes, such knowledge was directly imparted by Jesus to his true followers via his transmission of the Holy Spirit. Jesus actually awakened his most devout followers via the Holy Spirit, which raised them beyond their association with just the physical body-mind, into the God-Light or Kingdom of Heaven above. Those that knew Jesus this way, were able to enter that bright kingdom. Thus they were born again.

But Jesus certainly tested his disciples to make certain they were surrendered to him, for such spirit transmission would not be received fully otherwise. This was also the import of his two great commandments, as they require real surrender to God, because no body-based ego-possessed individual is going to be able to love so completely without going beyond their self-possession.

So with these commandments, Jesus not only provided a beautiful summary of rightful living, but also prepared aspirants to receive the Divine in ways they would never be able to otherwise. Jesus wanted to plant such seeds only on very fertile ground - so he required their becoming opened up through their love of God fully through him.

I wish people paid more attention to the various passages in the NT that speak of Jesus' esoteric instructions. It would clear up so many misconceptions about the Bible and possibly awaken more people to what Jesus was doing with his disciples, Nicodemus, etc.

originally posted by: bb23108
a reply to: iNobody
That is quite a confession, sir. Thank you.

I have a few more questions, if you will. What exactly did the anointing feel like? Was it the Holy Spirit fully descending and filling the heart and whole body-mind, were you gazing upward to the Light above, were you deeply surrendered at the time of the anointing, or ... ?

I am sorry you are feeling persecuted by others! People can feel threatened by spiritual matters, and you should take this into account when speaking to them. Obviously, you need to be very sensitive to whomever you are speaking with, and not provoke them beyond what actually immediately serves them - and also take into account any "betrayed victim" tendency in yourself you might have to "encourage" them to persecute you.

Your mission can be a happy one of spreading Jesus' essential message about loving and surrendering to God completely with the whole body-mind, etc., and one's neighbor as oneself.

If this is your main mission, and you live these two great commandments as best as you can, surrendered to the Divine in life, and this surrender shows all over you, then you will likely not make yourself into a target, but actually serve people.

Do you feel you have been given a specific mission beyond being a good example of Christianity?

That is a question that is hard to answer. What did it FEEL like? I don't really know how to answer that. If I could describe it at all, it would be clean. It felt like a cleansing, beautiful white, clean, and it does fill you. I thought at the time it filled the whole room, for I figured my wife must have felt it too, and asked her if she did, and she didn't know of what I was speaking, she was asleep at the time of course.

It is something that is very very real, it is not imagination. And the holy spirit lead me in the following weeks to understand what took place. There are many things that I recall now, I know could NOT have been coincidence that happened to reveal to me what happened. Some of those I showed you.

There is one thing I can tell you. It wasn't anything I have done, or who I am. I requested of God many times why he chose me. And he did finally show me the scripture I quoted you in Romans 9:16. And he also revealed this to me:

(Ephesians 2:8, 9) . . .By this undeserved kindness you have been saved through faith, and this is not of your own doing; rather, it is God’s gift. 9 No, it is not a result of works, so that no one should have grounds for boasting.


It wasn't anything I did on my own, beside my unshakable faith in Jehovah God and his son Jesus Christ, and Jehovah's word found in the Bible, and my comprehension of it. That is all I know. My comprehension came from asking for knowledge, and humbly reading his word and taking it in.

I have a younger brother who, when we were both young both read the Bible, had the same schedule, he felt it was more of a competition. I just wanted to learn. Afterwards he came away with a completely different understanding, and started to think much along the lines of TomCroft here, that he had some special knowledge and that a lot of the stories in the Bible are fables and need to be understood mystically, and from occult knowledge.

Later demons attached to him, and he rebelled from Jehovah. And much of what TomCroft speaks of, is very similar to what my little brother did.

But I never EVER doubted God's word.

That is all I can say.

I recall two accounts in scripture where God even blessed others than his own people because of their faith. One was a widow. When a famine came to Israel because of their badness. And the prophet Elijah lived. Jehovah did not send Elijah to anyone in Israel, but to Zidon to a widow:

(1 Kings 17:9-16) 9 “Rise up, go to Zar′e·phath, which belongs to Si′don, and stay there. Look! I will command a widow there to supply you with food.” 10 So he rose up and went to Zar′e·phath. When he came to the entrance of the city, there was a widow gathering pieces of wood. So he called to her and said: “Please, bring me a little water in a cup so that I may drink.” 11 As she went to get it, he called to her: “Please, bring me a piece of bread in your hand.” 12 At this she said: “As surely as Jehovah your God is living, I have no bread, only a handful of flour in the large jar and a little oil in the small jar. Now I am gathering a few pieces of wood, and I will go in and make something for me and my son. After we have eaten, we will die.” 13 Then E·li′jah said to her: “Do not be afraid. Go in and do as you said. But first make me a small round loaf of bread with what is there, and bring it out to me. Then you can make something afterward for you and your son. 14 For this is what Jehovah the God of Israel says: ‘The large jar of flour will not run out, and the small jar of oil will not run dry until the day Jehovah makes it rain on the surface of the ground.’” 15 So she went and did as E·li′jah said, and she together with him and her household ate for many days. 16 The large jar of flour did not run out, and the small jar of oil did not run dry, according to Jehovah’s word that he had spoken through E·li′jah.


That widow because of her faith was fed by Jehovah by his prophet, and not even anyone in Israel. And when her son later died, he was the first person to be raised back to life, because of Jehovah's loyal love to his prophet, and this widow of great faith:

(1 Kings 17:17-24) . . .After these things, the son of the woman who owned the house fell sick, and his sickness became so severe that he stopped breathing. 18 At this she said to E·li′jah: “What do you have against me, O man of the true God? Have you come to remind me of my guilt and to put my son to death?” 19 But he said to her: “Give me your son.” Then he took him from her arms and carried him up to the roof chamber, where he was staying, and he laid him on his own bed. 20 He called out to Jehovah: “O Jehovah my God, are you also bringing harm to the widow with whom I am staying by putting her son to death?” 21 Then he stretched himself out over the child three times and called out to Jehovah: “O Jehovah my God, please, let this child’s life come back into him.” 22 Jehovah listened to E·li′jah’s request, and the life of the child came back into him, and he revived. 23 E·li′jah took the child and brought him down from the roof chamber into the house and gave him to his mother; and E·li′jah said: “See, your son is alive.” 24 At that the woman said to E·li′jah: “Now I know that you truly are a man of God and that Jehovah’s word in your mouth is truth.”


The other account is of a Roman soldier. Who had so great a faith in Jesus while he was alive on earth. That even Jesus marveled at his faith and said this:

(Matthew 8:10) . . .: “I tell you the truth, with no one in Israel have I found so great a faith.


This is how Jesus concluded his speech about that office of so great a faith:

a reply to: bb23108

cont....

(Matthew 8:11-13) . . .But I tell you that many from east and west will come and recline at the table with Abraham and Isaac and Jacob in the Kingdom of the heavens; 12 whereas the sons of the Kingdom will be thrown into the darkness outside. There is where their weeping and the gnashing of their teeth will be.” 13 Then Jesus said to the army officer: “Go. Just as you have shown faith, so let it come to pass for you.” And the servant was healed in that hour.

That is all I can tell you. If I can share faith then I will.

There are those who think knowledge is faith, and will try to erode understanding of Holy Scripture and loft themselves up.

I am no one.

I wish all would have such great a faith.

a reply to: iNobody
Thank you for sharing this experience.

Do you feel the Holy Spirit is still tangibly present in your life each day? If so, are you still feeling what you initially described as a cleansing or has it changed over the years?

Does it manifest as real love in terms of softening you and allowing you to recognize what Jesus really meant when he said to love one's neighbor as oneself? In other words, to love others as non-separate from oneself - as everyone fundamentally arises in unity, not separate from God and each other.

originally posted by: bb23108
a reply to: iNobody
Thank you for sharing this experience.

Do you feel the Holy Spirit is still tangibly present in your life each day? If so, are you still feeling what you initially described as a cleansing or has it changed over the years?

Does it manifest as real love in terms of softening you and allowing you to recognize what Jesus really meant when he said to love one's neighbor as oneself? In other words, to love others as non-separate from oneself - as everyone fundamentally arises in unity, not separate from God and each other.

The anointing is s one-time event. There is a period where there is a quickening, that can last several weeks, perhaps months. During this time the presence of the holy spirit is very intense. But afterwards the holy spirit resides in you just as any other person of faith who asks it of Jehovah God.

Scripture tells us that God gives a measure of faith to each of his servants as they need it, and he uses the holy spirit in the same fashion. Those who have more responsibilities have more holy spirit, or at least it operates in them more intensely. And you should ask for its presence in your life every day, whether or not you are chosen or not. Also reading the Bible, preaching and teaching to others, meeting together with God's people helps you to keep the holy spirit.

I have done things that has lead to the saddening of the holy spirit on occasion. But I can feel and see its operation in my day-to-day life, as should all Christians.

The anointing doesn't make you love, but loving Jehovah and having his holy spirit does. That is a true marker of true Christianity. No one can hate his brother and claim to love God, and as John 13:35 states, all will know if we are true disciples, for the love we show among each other as a brotherhood.

But a person can lose the love they used to have. That is why Jesus warned the congregation Ephesus:

(Revelation 2:4) . . .Nevertheless, I hold this against you, that you have left the love you had at first.


Being a Christian is praying to Jehovah and asking for his holy spirit to guide us on our day-to-day life. One need not be chosen to cultivate the fruitage of God's holy spirit:

(Galatians 5:22, 23) . . .On the other hand, the fruitage of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, 23 mildness, self-control. . . .

Displaying those things in your life, you will give proof of being lead by God's holy spirit.

originally posted by: iNobody

originally posted by: bb23108
a reply to: iNobody
Thank you for sharing this experience.

Do you feel the Holy Spirit is still tangibly present in your life each day? If so, are you still feeling what you initially described as a cleansing or has it changed over the years?

Does it manifest as real love in terms of softening you and allowing you to recognize what Jesus really meant when he said to love one's neighbor as oneself? In other words, to love others as non-separate from oneself - as everyone fundamentally arises in unity, not separate from God and each other.

The anointing is s one-time event. There is a period where there is a quickening, that can last several weeks, perhaps months. During this time the presence of the holy spirit is very intense. But afterwards the holy spirit resides in you just as any other person of faith who asks it of Jehovah God.

Scripture tells us that God gives a measure of faith to each of his servants as they need it, and he uses the ho ly spirit in the same fashion. Those who have more responsibilities have more holy spirit, or at least it operates in them more intensely. And you should ask for its presence in your life every day, whether or not you are chosen or not. Also reading the Bible, preaching and teaching to others, meeting together with God's people helps you to keep the holy spirit.

I have done things that has lead to the saddening of the holy spirit on occasion. But I can feel and see its operation in my day-to-day life, as should all Christians.

The anointing doesn't make you love, but loving Jehovah and having his holy spirit does. That is a true marker of true Christianity. No one can hate his brother and claim to love God, and as John 13:35 states, all will know if we are true disciples, for the love we show among each other as a brotherhood.

But a person can lose the love they used to have. That is why Jesus warned the congregation Ephesus:

(Revelation 2:4) . . .Nevertheless, I hold this against you, that you have left the love you had at first.


Being a Christian is praying to Jehovah and asking for his holy spirit to guide us on our day-to-day life. One need not be chosen to cultivate the fruitage of God's holy spirit:

(Galatians 5:22, 23) . . .On the other hand, the fruitage of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, 23 mildness, self-control. . . .

Displaying those things in your life, you will give proof of being lead by God's holy spirit.

Notice that one of the fruits of the spirit is faith.

For anyone to doubt scripture is to have a lack of faith. And how can they be showing they have God's spirit? I am talking about TomCroft.

For he very well knows he does not have faith in God's word. And thus he knows he lacks faith, and thus he knows he does not have holy spirit.

Anyone who has Godly wisdom from the Bible know you are a fraud.

originally posted by: iNobody
Notice that one of the fruits of the spirit is faith.

For anyone to doubt scripture is to have a lack of faith. And how can they be showing they have God's spirit? I am talking about TomCroft.

For he very well knows he does not have faith in God's word. And thus he knows he lacks faith, and thus he knows he does not have holy spirit.

Anyone who has Godly wisdom from the Bible know you are a fraud.

I assume you are speaking about Joecroft? If so, I am surprised at what you are saying about him. His posts indicate a deep understanding of the Bible and faith in God's process for him. Why you are calling him a fraud is beyond me.

You seem very quick to judge if someone is not a fundamentalist like yourself. There is also a whole thread devoted to defending inerrancy in the Bible. Perhaps you would like to post there? There are people there who obviously have faith but also see there are inconsistencies in the Bible:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

In any event, I find your judgment of Joecroft inconsistent with what you have confessed about the holy spirit, loving God and neighbor, etc. - and your logic does not hold up given what I have read of Joecrofts' posts.

Thank you for your confessions, I do appreciate those - but your harsh judgments here do not seem to reflect the work of the holy spirit in my view.

(Matthew 13:13-15) . . .That is why I speak to them by the use of illustrations; for looking, they look in vain, and hearing, they hear in vain, nor do they get the sense of it. 14 And the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled in their case. It says: ‘You will indeed hear but by no means get the sense of it, and you will indeed look but by no means see. 15 For the heart of this people has grown unreceptive, and with their ears they have heard without response, and they have shut their eyes, so that they might never see with their eyes and hear with their ears and get the sense of it with their hearts and turn back and I heal them.’

a reply to: iNobody

Perhaps you made an honest mistake; but my handle name is Joe not Tom, and my real name is actually Joseph, although I prefer the Hebrew version of Yehoseph…

Originally posted by iNobody
I have a younger brother who, when we were both young both read the Bible, had the same schedule, he felt it was more of a competition. I just wanted to learn. Afterwards he came away with a completely different understanding, and started to think much along the lines of TomCroft here, that he had some special knowledge and that a lot of the stories in the Bible are fables and need to be understood mystically, and from occult knowledge.

Later demons attached to him, and he rebelled from Jehovah. And much of what TomCroft speaks of, is very similar to what my little brother did.

Firstly, taking a swipe at me, through replying to another poster is pretty low IMO…

And secondly, you are again painting my posts in the wrong light; I used Jesus words and the Spirit of God to reach my understanding, and not from occult books; I don’t practice the occult.

I just so happen to be aware, that certain aspects of the Kabala are incorporated into the Genesis story of Adam and Eve; that’s all I was pointing out there. Again, you are jumping to incorrect conclusions, about me and my personal beliefs…

But to be honest, I don’t think it’s really possible for your younger brother to have the exact same understanding that I have of the Bible, at such a “young” age, because when I was a kid, I hardly had any understanding of the Bible at all. I’m pretty sure that’s the case for most Kids growing up…so that part of your story doesn’t really fit…IMO

But it get’s even worse…

You seemed to have missed out some VERY important elements to your story; which was that your brothers and other members of your family were already heavily into the OCCULT, from the time you were growing up… which you mentioned in another thread, in this post

…here’s an extract below…

Originally posted by iNobody
My family was very steeped in the occult, I had three brothers that practiced some form of it, as well as my grandfather.

Your other post, about me being just like your brother, puts across this idea, that your brother was only attached to by Demons, because he supposedly came to MY beliefs, or something similar to my beliefs etc...

But you failed to mention that your whole family was steeped into the OCCULT, from the time you were growing (age 4 onwards) up; which is most likely the real cause of those problems. You also failed to mention that you yourself, were plagued by demons growing up as well…

Those are two VERY IMPORTANT background details to your overall story;

Suggesting that your brother was only attached to by demons because he came to my beliefs, is totally disingenuous… especially when the most likely cause, was because of your whole families involvement with the occult…

Your reply to bb23108 makes it look like you were fine because you found the truth, but because your brother came to my beliefs, he was instead attached to by demons…which paints a completely false picture of events, based on your other thread post…

This is very deceptive, you are seriously losing all credibility here…


- JC