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originally posted by: The angel of light
a reply to: Tangerine
It is clear that you are trying to boycott the thread in all possible ways. Everybody that have read my threads in the past knows since years ago that I am an European member of the ATS community.
My native language is not English, and maybe you don't believe this, but there are many Scientists with serious academic careers and credentials that are not American and that have published their research in other languages and even they are working right now in some of the best Universities in the USA.
Now, let me suggest you , just for elemental respect to the copyrights, that when you cite anything of Dr Fanti work please at least use the formal way to provide pages of his book from which you are extracting quotes , before to carry out any interpretation of them for the rest of the readers.
The Angel of Lightness
Fanti’s work was done with HIGHLY QUESTIONABLE samples that would have never been used by any credible and ethical scientist in order to “prove” anything. The fact that all his research is based on this kind of highly questionable material says it all…
Yes, we’ll need to see the experimental protocols in detail. With that caveat, one has to say that initial impressions are not favourable, even if we had been unaware of Professor Fanti’s previous excursions into “theoscience”. If I were an Italian scientist, I’d be thinking right now about an urgent letter to the Accademia dei Lincei, that country’s equivalent of the UK’s Royal Society, or the US National Academy of Sciences etc. The Lincean Academy (anglicized name) is even older than the Royal Society, having been founded in 1603, with the distinction of having had Galileo Galilei (1564-1642) as one of its founder members. Methinks Galileo would be turning in his grave right now, seeing what currently passes for science in the cradle of the Renaissance.
originally posted by: 5StarOracle
a reply to: Krazysh0t
*off topic Jesus cheerleader rant snipped*
that being said I myself have always believed the shroud is the real deal and is only becoming more mysterious as technology reveals more of the evidence hidden on the shroud which makes it more and more miraculous and adds greater credence to its authenticity...
originally posted by: The angel of light
deviate it in other directions, like for instance in to try to deny the historicity of Christ. I think that is possible another interesting topic but has nothing to do with this one of the Shroud.
no serious scholar doubts Jesus existed historically… and the scholarship, archeology and history is very convincing…
The book is a historical review of some 35 major deniers of Jesus historicity (radicals, mythicists) covering the period 1780 – 1926, [...]
Drews describes the social consequences of a denial of historicity, and explains why so many theologians and secular researchers stick to historicity, though the ahistoricity of Jesus is scientifically as sure as that of Romulus and Remus, or the seven legendary kings of Rome. The consequences are generally underestimated.
It is quite understandable that the denial party is unique only in that point [of the non-historicity, Ahistorizität], and otherwise offers a variety of diverging explanations [each denier has his own independent hypothesis]. The church has done everything for 2000 years to obscure and hide away the origins of Christianity, so that there’s no way to get any further without speculative hypotheses.
It is obvious that no serious researcher could claim the historicity of Jesus, unless it were the savior of the dominating religion of the prevailing culture. So there’s nothing but Christian prejudice which keeps even secular researchers from admitting non-historicity
Baron D'Holbach, Ecce Homo! The Critical History of Jesus of Nazareth, Being a Rational Analysis of the Gospels. 1770
J Archibald Robertson, Jesus: Myth or History?, 1946
"Bruno Bauer", by Douglas Moddach, 2009, Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy (SEP)
"History of religions"
Andrew George, What’s new in the Gilgamesh Epic?, Un. of London
Gary D. Thompson, "The Development, Heyday, and Demise of Panbabylonism" A. J. Allan, "A Forgotten Chapter: the Radicals"
Hermann Detering, "The Dutch Radical Approach to the Pauline Epistles", 1996
Hermann Detering: Paulusbriefe ohne Paulus. Die Paulusbriefe in der holländischen Radikalkritik – "The Pauline Epistles Without Paul", 1992 (English abstract). The full German text Die Paulusbriefe in der Holländischen Radikalkritik, 1992, 531 p. (The Pauline Epistles in the Dutch Radical School) not accessible online. The Table of Contents indicates a detailed examination of each member of the Dutch School. The extensive Introduction, p. 1-17 is accessible.
"Willem C. Van Manen & the Dutch Radicals", in Radikalkritik
Willem C. van Manen, "Paul & Paulinism", ca. 1900
Willem C. van Manen, Epistle to the Romans, ca. 1900
See also An Outline of Van Manen's Analysis of Pauline Literature in Thomas Whittaker's The Origins of Christianity, (1904–1933). Includes reviews of Acts, Romans, and 1 & 2 Corinthians
Hermann Detering, "G.J.P.J. Bolland", English Summary by Klaus Schilling
G.A. van Den Bergh van Eysinga, Early Christianity's Letters (1951)
Thomas Whittaker, "Prof. G.A. van Den Bergh van Eysinga", (1934)
Klaus Schilling, "A survey: G.A. van den Bergh van Eysinga", (2003)
G.A. van den Bergh van Eysinga, "Does Jesus Live, or Has He Only Lived? A Study of the Doctrine of Historicity" (1930) – English Summary by Klaus Schilling (2003), a commentary on Drews's "Denial of the Historicity of Jesus"
G.A. van den Bergh van Eysinga, Das Christentum als MysterienReligion (1950, "Christianity as a Mystery Cult")
Radikalkritik – Articles, reviews and books in English
Ernest Renan, Life of Jesus, 1863
Edwin Johnson, Antiqua mater – A Study of Christian Origins, 1887, published anonymously
Hermann Raschke, "Historical and Metaphysical Christ", excerpt from The Workshop of the Evangelist Mark (1924), p. 26-30 (text in German)
"A History of 'Jesus Denial' "— "Demolishing the Historicity of Jesus", in Jesus Never Existed, by Kenneth Humphreys
Anacalypsis: An Attempt to Draw Aside the Veil of the Saitic Isis or an Inquiry into the Origin of Languages, Nations and Religions by Godfrey Higgins, 1836
The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors (or Christianity Before Christ) by Kersey Graves, 1875
The Christ Myth ( or Die Christusmythe) by Arthur Drews, 1909
The Denial of the Historicity of Jesus in Past and Present ( or Die Leugnung der Geschichtlichkeit Jesu in Vergangenheit und Gegenwart) by Arthur Drews, 1927
Did Jesus Exist? by George Albert Wells, 1975
The Jesus Mysteries: Was the "Original Jesus" a Pagan God? by Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy, 1999
The Pagan Christ: Recovering the Lost Light (or The Pagan Christ: Is Blind Faith Killing Christianity?) by Tom Harpur, 2004
The Jesus Puzzle by Earl Doherty, 2005
God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything (or God Is Not Great: The Case Against Religion) by Christopher Hitchens, 2007