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originally posted by: catt3
a reply to: AnuTyr
It is a business but a necessary one. What are the stats of suicide before anti-depressants? And I mean without alcohol or marijuana?
In June 2012 I made an FOI request to Karolinska Institutet (where Isacsson is working) to get the corrected figures in this research project. I specifically wanted to get the document containing the correct percentage of antidepressants for those 'who committed suicide and who had previously been treated at a psychiatric clinic for depression' (the earlier mentioned group of 1077 persons).
The controls (34,165) are people who did not commit suicide.
These are individuals who died from accidental and natural deaths.
Antidepressants were detected in 6.5% of these individuals post-mortem.
The suicides (18,922) represent all Swedish suicides from 1992 to 2003.
Antidepressants were detected in 22.4% of these people post-mortem. Then the authors broke the numbers down further. They note that 11,226 of the suicides had no psychiatric hospitalization in the 5 years prior to their deaths. Of these individuals, 14.8% had antidepressants detected post-mortem. The remaining 7,696 suicides, who had been in a psychiatric hospital in the preceding 5 years, had an antidepressant detection rate of 33.6%. And this is where it gets complicated. The researchers broke the hospitalized numbers down further, into: Those hospitalized for depression only
15.2% Those hospitalized for other problems
37.3% Those hospitalized for depression plus other problems
33.2% Their argument was that the first group (depression only) would be expected to have about the same, or an even higher, level of detected antidepressants as the other groups. But, contrary to expectations, they found that they had the lowest level – about the same, in fact, as the group who had not been hospitalized in the previous five years. So, they reason that large numbers of the hospitalized-for-depression-only group, most of whom presumably had antidepressants in their blood stream, had "been saved from committing suicide by antidepressant treatment." But as mentioned earlier, there was an error in the data, and the correct number was 56%.
originally posted by: GetHyped
I'm not exactly seeing the causal link here. Suicidal people are depressed. Depressed people in psychiatric care are treated with antidepressants. Therefore, the conclusion is that antidepressants cause suicide? This does not logically hold up.
originally posted by: AnuTyr
That's the whole point tho, If people are high on drugs they are more likely to follow through with their thoughts.
Yes it's entirely dependant on the person, how they feel and how they act. Problem with drugs is, they change the way people feel and they alter the way people act.
It's confusing for sure but with a subject like this it needs to be read in depth.
someone could be feeling like crap one day, Take one of these * happy pills* and say Screw it. Now is the day i do it.
Anti-depressants are prescribed to STOP PEOPLE from committing suicide. If anti-depressants arn't doing what they were made to do. Then why are they perscribing them to people? If they have such negative symptoms besides the suicidal behavior that would make a person feel more likely to follow through rather than attempt.
There is a huge number of medicated people using anti-depressants around the globe. And if they all knew that the pill that is given to them won't help them but has a pretty good chance at making them feel worse physically and mentally then we shouldn't be prescribing them to people with depression at all!
Some suicides can't be prevented or rather, are to complicated of a situation to figure out at this time. But others can be prevented and usually seeking help for these problems is leading one to a path they believe will lead them to feeling better and living a happier life. Problem with that tho is it has the opposite effect.
So do the drugs make people more likely to commit suicide? if you par all the negative effects, and the fact it does not eliminate suicidal thoughts. Chances are Yes. it can make things much worse than what it was in the begining since psychotropics + Anti-depressants have direct impacts on brain development and neural pathways. Altering peoples personalities and life almost permenantly. Like people who take Extacy Ect. Now the extacy thing is only my oppinion.
I view the 2 of them as being very very similar.
originally posted by: AnuTyr
1. All the anti-depressants do is get the person high.
2. The issues of depression need to be more or less focused on the families ability to make the person WANT TO LIVE. Rather than the families ability to support them getting high on pharmasucles.
3. Anti-depressants are prescribed to STOP PEOPLE from committing suicide.
4. If a doctor told you, theres a 50% chance of this pill working or theres a 50% chance of this pill making your life and time harder, Would you feel more comfortable knowing that 12.5% is the suicide rate well being on said pill? Instead of 56% on said pill?
happy pills Psychotropic medication used to treat depression and the mentally unstable Damien could not cease dwelling over the torment of his soul and so he developed a deep depression which could be treated with Prozac capsules, his happy pills of choice.