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12.5% Anti-depressant suicide rate False. CORRECT results Show 56% !

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posted on Mar, 10 2015 @ 05:09 PM
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Antidepressant Drugs & Suicide Rates

Are you Feeling Lucky? Do you Feel like flipping a coin to see if your Anti-depressant meds are working?




I specifically wanted to get the document containing the correct percentage of antidepressants for those 'who committed suicide and who had previously been treated at a psychiatric clinic for depression' (the earlier mentioned group of 1077 persons).

The answer from Karolinska Institutet: This is confidential information, no data can be released.

It took a five month legal process to get access to the correct data. During this whole process Karolinska Institutet claimed that all the data in this research project were confidential. In a final statement to the court, after having to answer specific questions, Karolinska Institutet stated that the correct figures did not exist at the time of the FOI-request – remember that they were said to be confidential at the time – but that the correct figures now had been produced.


Karolinska Institutet stated to the court: 'that information has now been produced … The result shows that ‘the correct percentage’ is 56, meaning that of the persons who had been treated for depression in psychiatric care in the last five years before suicide, 56% had antidepressants in their blood when they committed suicide.' So finally we got to know that the 15.2% in actual fact was 56% – an increase of 268% (from 164 persons to 603). We had a seven pages long scientific article, with great impact in media, where doctors and the public got the message that antidepressants protect against suicide – an article built on Isacsson’s faulty finding that only 15.2% in the group had antidepressants in their blood when they committed suicide. And so the correct data, which completely defeated Isacsson’s speculations and conclusions in the original article, 'published' in a short statement to the court in Stockholm, where no doctor, no patient and no other researcher could find it." So, Dr. Isacsson et al's original finding of 15.2% was a very large error indeed. As I mentioned earlier, the logic underlying the study is tenuous, but Table 1 from the study will provide some insight into the authors' thinking.





The controls (34,165) are people who did not commit suicide. These are individuals who died from accidental and natural deaths. Antidepressants were detected in 6.5% of these individuals post-mortem.





The suicides (18,922) represent all Swedish suicides from 1992 to 2003. Antidepressants were detected in 22.4% of these people post-mortem.






Then the authors broke the numbers down further. They note that 11,226 of the suicides had no psychiatric hospitalization in the 5 years prior to their deaths. Of these individuals, 14.8% had antidepressants detected post-mortem. The remaining 7,696 suicides, who had been in a psychiatric hospital in the preceding 5 years, had an antidepressant detection rate of 33.6%. And this is where it gets complicated. The researchers broke the hospitalized numbers down further, into:
Those hospitalized for depression only
15.2% Those hospitalized for other problems
37.3% Those hospitalized for depression plus other problems
33.2% Their argument was that the first group (depression only) would be expected to have about the same, or an even higher, level of detected antidepressants as the other groups. But, contrary to expectations, they found that they had the lowest level – about the same, in fact, as the group who had not been hospitalized in the previous five years. So, they reason that large numbers of the hospitalized-for-depression-only group, most of whom presumably had antidepressants in their blood stream, had "been saved from committing suicide by antidepressant treatment."





But as mentioned earlier, there was an error in the data, and the correct number was 56%.



Feeling lucky?

Recently there have been a number of stories out there about family members butchering relatives ect.

How many Elderly people are on these types of pills? Next time you read a story about Grandma hacking up her grandchildren like the wicked witch from hansel and grettle think again before assuming they are crazy and that something like these probably played an important role in the break down of the Events.

Many of the recent spree killers were in fact heavily dosed on such medication. Perhapse our medicated society should be more cautious of Big pharma.

It took A LOT of effort to get these numbers out. At first they denied them, Saying this study is confidencial. It had to take a court case where sueing was an option to force this information that BIG phamacy companies defenantly didn't want out.




Dr. Isacsson issued the above statement on March 19, 2012. At that time, neither he nor Karolinska Institutet had released the 56% figure (on the patently spurious grounds of confidentiality). It took several more months of legal process before the 56% figure was produced. So at the time that Dr. Isacsson wrote "… not less than expected …", he probably did not anticipate that the true figure would ever be released.


Mainstream media IS NOT PUBLISHING THIS. For good reason too. They get most of their bills from big phamacy companies.

Now it's our job ATS to spread this like viral wildfire. Share this on your facebook. Make it well known and viralize it to become mainstream.

Big pharma is medicating the population so that violent outbursts are the common norm.




But the plot thickens even further: "This means that no conclusion can be drawn from the study regarding antidepressants’ effects on suicide risk in any direction." [Emphasis added] If a particularly low number (15%) warrants the conclusion in the article's title ("Antidepressants Medication Prevents Suicide in Depression"), wouldn't it be reasonable to infer that a particularly high number (56%) might warrant the opposite conclusion? This is particularly so in that the increase from 15% to 56% can only have come at the expense of one or other of the remaining categories, which would make the discrepancy even larger.

I'm perfectly willing to accept that the original analysis was a genuine error. But at the time of the retraction and the letter to Retraction Watch, Dr. Isacsson must have known that the true figure was 56%, and the question needs to be asked: Why did he not release the 56% figure voluntarily at the time of discovery? In addition, it is difficult to avoid the conclusion that his letter to Ivan Oransky was deliberately deceptive. Mickey Nardo puts the matter well:

"It would be easy to drift into a debate about the relationship between suicide and antidepressants and miss the point here, which is that medical opinion should follow science, not the other way around. It’s clear that Göran Isacsson is of the opinion that antidepressants should be given to decrease the incidence of suicide – he has an absolute right to express that opinion. But when Isacsson offers as proof of his opinion a published study of the Swedish public records, and it turns out that his data either is wrong, not to be found, or never existed in the first place...


Read More in the link.




posted on Mar, 10 2015 @ 05:17 PM
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I'm not exactly seeing the causal link here. Suicidal people are depressed. Depressed people in psychiatric care are treated with antidepressants. Therefore, the conclusion is that antidepressants cause suicide? This does not logically hold up.


+1 more 
posted on Mar, 10 2015 @ 05:20 PM
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a reply to: GetHyped

the numbers of 56% from people who had Anti-depressants in their blood stream.

What the numbers are showing is that anti-depressants do not decrease sucidal tendiencies but may increase them.

It would be better to not be on Anti-depressants at all considering the fact. And that is why these results were skewed so harsly to the blatent lie of 12.5% rather than reflecting upon the 56% that it should of been when made publically aware.



posted on Mar, 10 2015 @ 05:24 PM
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Of course it's higher than 12%...

Every anti-depressant I've ever heard of or been prescribed has suicidal side effects...


Like someone needs suicidal symptoms exacerbated by a suicide pill...


Crazy industry!



posted on Mar, 10 2015 @ 05:24 PM
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originally posted by: GetHyped
I'm not exactly seeing the causal link here. Suicidal people are depressed. Depressed people in psychiatric care are treated with antidepressants. Therefore, the conclusion is that antidepressants cause suicide? This does not logically hold up.


Suicidal thoughts are a very well documented side effect of anti-depressants. Not seeing the causal link though? OK LOL.

SSRI's to fix your depression but they frequently has the opposite effect.

edit on 10-3-2015 by InverseLookingGlass because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 10 2015 @ 05:26 PM
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Many of the recent spree killers were in fact heavily dosed on such medication. Perhapse our medicated society should be more cautious of Big pharma.
Big pharma is medicating the population so that violent outbursts are the common norm.


Completely BS.

Antidepressants are used all over the world in some countrys more than in the US, and we don't see violent spree's all over the place like in the US.



posted on Mar, 10 2015 @ 05:26 PM
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a reply to: AnuTyr




It would be better to not be on Anti-depressants at all


I think you may be on to something. Pharma kills 100k/yr in the US alone. Steer clear of the pill pushers altogether.



posted on Mar, 10 2015 @ 05:28 PM
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a reply to: GetHyped

56 % is enough to call potential causation. Would you use it with those stats ? would you give it to a family member ?

Every god damn teenager today is depressed. And the industry loves it. Just keep selling those magic pills. They make everything ok.



posted on Mar, 10 2015 @ 05:30 PM
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originally posted by: Mianeye



Many of the recent spree killers were in fact heavily dosed on such medication. Perhapse our medicated society should be more cautious of Big pharma.
Big pharma is medicating the population so that violent outbursts are the common norm.


Completely BS.

Antidepressants are used all over the world in some countrys more than in the US, and we don't see violent spree's all over the place like in the US.








I think you are misunderstanding the Article, This is about Suicides and it's relation to anti-depressants. The 56% figure is from people who commited suicide well still having anti-depressants in their blood stream. It does not mean 56% of people on anti-depressants kill themselves.



posted on Mar, 10 2015 @ 05:32 PM
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originally posted by: MarioOnTheFly
a reply to: GetHyped

56 % is enough to call potential causation. Would you use it with those stats ? would you give it to a family member ?

Every god damn teenager today is depressed. And the industry loves it. Just keep selling those magic pills. They make everything ok.


I never have recommened anti-depressants to anyone. But if i knew someone in my family was suicidal i wouldn't risk giving them pills to make the symptoms worse i promise you that.
edit on pm3u3115Tue, 10 Mar 2015 17:33:26 -0500 by AnuTyr because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 10 2015 @ 05:33 PM
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a reply to: AnuTyr

I understand that part, but i quoted another part that was blended in, and comented on that part.



posted on Mar, 10 2015 @ 05:36 PM
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a reply to: InverseLookingGlass

No where near as clear cut as you would like to portray the issue:

en.wikipedia.org...

But what does any of this have to do with the OP? That is the topic at hand. Suicidal people commit suicide. They are also prescribed antidepressants to treat their condition. "Therefore the antidepressants caused the suicide" is beyond contorted logic.



posted on Mar, 10 2015 @ 05:36 PM
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There have been several threads @ ATS about some lunatic on psychotropic drugs (for many years) not only killing themselves but trying to off anyone else they have contact with. Sick is sick and I am not saying the drugs do not help some. I think after a time though the drugs lose their effectiveness which causes the doctors to change the med. Then change again until someone is taking a combination of the drugs. I actually knew a flight attendant who was married to a good friend of mine that started down that road. Before the drugs she worked and other than once a month being depressed she functioned. She was 5'6 and maybe 120 pounds. Last time I checked she was now over 215 pounds and spends he days in bed or on the couch ... I feel sorry for her, her daughter, and my friend who has to take care of her probably for the rest of her life..

Mental illness can strike anyone ... When it does strike, I sometimes wonder if the profit motive out weighs the treatment of the patient for it sure seems that way to me.. either that or the doctors don't know what they are doing or care ?

Edit to add; since the meds she has tried to commit suicide 3 times and has ended up in the hospital each time for revival.. Last time it cost 250,000 (insurance) and a six week stay... Hearsay or just another internet story.. You decide..
edit on 10-3-2015 by 727Sky because: ....



posted on Mar, 10 2015 @ 05:38 PM
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a reply to: MarioOnTheFly

The logic does not in any way follow to establish a causal link. It's like saying people who have serious heart problems and are medicated accordingly go on to have heart attacks, therefore the medicine causes the heart attack. What??



posted on Mar, 10 2015 @ 05:42 PM
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a reply to: Mianeye

Yeah i said that because it can make suicidal tendicenies worse. Increasing violent crimes for sure.

There's been plenty of cases of people committing suicide and taking people out around them.

Does this mean all people on anti-depressants are murderers? No. I just means if they are high on anti-depressants and they reallly really want to murder themselves plus anyone else who gets in their way they are 56% more likely to do so lol. As the other numbers of suicides reflects on people who havn't had anti-depressants and commited suicide. As well as people who stopped using anti-depressants for longer than 5 years. This is based on people experience with psychotherapy. And if more than half the people who commit suicide through these methods have these pills pumping in their vains it's a serious cause for alarm il say that much. Anti-depressants are supposed to supress suicidal tendiencies, Not make them worse, as the study has shown. Anti-depressants do not reduce suicidal tendencies but can infact make them worse.

Which is symptoms they even label on anti-depressants so they can't get sued when someone decides to take 2 or 3 pills. Get's uber high and then takes their life.

The numbers are steep enough to be worrying.



posted on Mar, 10 2015 @ 05:43 PM
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a reply to: AnuTyr

Anyone have a legitimate source for this? Madinamerica's goal is to push alternative medicine, so I cannot trust anything they say in this regard.



posted on Mar, 10 2015 @ 05:48 PM
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originally posted by: AnuTyr
a reply to: Mianeye

No. I just means if they are high on anti-depressants and they reallly really want to murder themselves plus anyone else who gets in their way they are 56% more likely to do so lol.


What? Have you ever taken a math class? You don't seem to understand statistics.

This doesn't tell us that they committed suicide because of anti-depressants, it just shows that in these cases they didn't work.



posted on Mar, 10 2015 @ 05:50 PM
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a reply to: SpongeBeard



Journalist Source link for Article

Here you go.
edit on pm30000003115Tue, 10 Mar 2015 17:51:55 -0500 by AnuTyr because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 10 2015 @ 05:52 PM
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a reply to: AnuTyr

You don't get super high from anti depressant, i know because i have taken every single one you can think of, inclu. originals and cheap copys for the last seven years.

The problem is they don't work, and it takes a long time to find the one that do work, as it is different from person to person, you have to experiment with what dose and what medication to take.

Most of them are depot medicine and takes time to show effect, and some shows no effect at all, where you have to start over with a new medication.

If nothing changes fast, people who have suicidal tendencies will most likely also commit or try to commit suicide, they then become part of that statistic, though it has nothing to do with the medicin they took.
edit on 10-3-2015 by Mianeye because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 10 2015 @ 05:53 PM
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originally posted by: AnuTyr
a reply to: SpongeBeard



Journalist Source link for Article

Here you go.


Can you point out part that says they are 56% more likely to commit suicide?



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