South African Gun Laws Back in the Spotlight

Here is SA, an average of 7000 illegal firearms gets 'lost' (Stolen) out of police safes each month. I'll give the links to the news articles when I can. This is a well known fact in SA, because this issue has been in the local news many times before.

Another related problem to the one I will share in a moment is the fact that if you are a white person, it is real hard to obtain the needed paperwork to be able to purchase a firearm, without brides or connections in the police. The illegal firearms that gets stolen from police lock-up, gets selled

- Here in SA, you are not even allowed to handle a firearm without the supervision of someone that has the correct firearm license for that weapon. Here is a link to the 11 steps to take. (It's too long to post up)

www.saps.gov.za...

But back to the real story.

SOUTH AFRICAN GUN LAWS BACK IN THE SPOTLIGHT

The draft bill includes microdots and ballistics, which aim to improve the tracking of weapons.

FILE: Over 9,000 illegal guns were destroyed in the Vaal in January 2015. Picture: Vumani Mkhize/EWN.

JOHANNESBURG - South Africa's gun laws are back in the spotlight with a draft bill which aims to tighten controls and introduce minimum sentences for using guns in crimes.

Some of amendments include microdots and ballistics, which aim to improve the tracking of weapons.

Experts and lobby groups are expected to debate the issue at a firearm control summit at the end of the month.

The tightening of the country’s gun laws has always been a contentious issue.

Gun Free South Africa’s Adele Kirsten on Tuesday said the proposed amendments were a significant step forward, one of them being the tracing of firearms.

“It’s seen as a key innovation to track the movement of guns from the legal pool into the illegal pool and that’s your microdot system.”

However, Attorney Martin Hood for various firearm organisations disagrees, saying the police simply do not have the resources or facilities.

The draft bill has been released by the government for public comments.

ewn.co.za...

This is just a bit of info into the subject of weapons in SA. Any thoughts?

what about if you are a black person? is it easier to get a firearm?

a reply to: tastyrawmeat

Actually yes. I know a former police weapons instructor, and we told me that the average period a white person has to wait before receiving his/her license, is about 6 - 24 months. (many of my friends are still waiting to get approved after 12 months). But for an average black person, its anything between 2 weeks - 6 months.

It seems that if you are white, you get placed on the end of the list.

But his is just what was said by a former police instructor, there is no links to back up my story.

a reply to: IndependentOpinion

I remember the good 'ole days, way back in the 80's when life was good, the weather was great, most people were working, the crime rate was low and I could walk into a gun shop, put down a deposit, go to the police station and get my stamp for my ID book and then go back and pick up my gun and all the ammo I needed. In two days from start to finish ;-)

It's a real shame what has happened to South Africa and I can only hope that it happens to Israel real soon. They were instrumental in branding SA on the world stage and in the capitulation by deKlerk, so it would look good on them.

Cheers - Dave

It's amazing how people spread their Ignorance online.

Most of the facts are correct, but to get a firearm license in South Africa takes on average about 9 weeks from submitting the documentation to receiving your license if you qualify. This whole process can be streamlined if South Africa had one database containing South African citizens fingerprints and information, but unfortunately the police has their own database and the other departments their own.

I am white and to stereotype the whole of South Africa as against white people are stupid. Unless you are a brandy and coke drinking right wing idiot.

Our gun laws currently are very much the same as in Europe and i prefer it like that, otherwise any drunk idiot with no brains can go buy a weapon. At least now any half drunk person can achieve it.

To get a license for a self defense weapon is very difficult, but if you use your weapon for hunting and sport shooting the process is very simple. But then you must actively partake in your chosen sport and no one stops you from using your weapon to protect your own life or someone else whose life is in danger.

Cheers - Peter

a reply to: Grazor

but to get a firearm license in South Africa takes on average about 9 weeks from submitting the documentation to receiving your license if you qualify.

Really? Why is it then than people applying for firearm licenses for business use is still waiting for their license? (I'm talking about my friends that works as Investigators in cable theft and security) So who do you know inside the police station?

I am white and to stereotype the whole of South Africa as against white people are stupid. Unless you are a brandy and coke drinking right wing idiot.

Just to point out a fact, how many times as someone (President Zuma & Julius Malema) sang "Kill the Boer, Kill the Farmer"? or how may times as it made the news where they said 'There is no place for white people in SA'? Am I, and the rest of SA just dreaming this stuff? NO. Its the reality! And I'm no right wing anything, and I don't drink.

To get a license for a self defense weapon is very difficult, but if you use your weapon for hunting and sport shooting the process is very simple.

As I said above, that is not all that true. The firearms instructor I mentioned before, (currently an instructor on a shooting range, previously for the SAP), also wait for about 6-8 months for his licences (Hunting and sport shooting).

So please tell me where do you get your "9 weeks" from?

amazing how easy it is to quote unnamed sources.....

How many firearms do u own?

I own 3, Shotgun, Rifle and handgun.

All three took less than 9 weeks to license.

My colleague own 5 weapons. 4 took less than 9 weeks and the 5th longer because it needed special permission.

Maybe you and your friends are just not competent to own a firearm.

a reply to: Grazor

Correct me if I'm wrong, because I think I see the confusion. Are you talking about applying for a new weapon taking 9 weeks? Meaning after already passing you knowledge of the Firearms Control Act, receiving training for Gun Safety Training, and receiving the Competency Certificate.

I recently purchased an SKS military surplus semi-automatic rifle at a local automotive store for $180.00 and 100 rounds of ammo for $22.00, showed the salesman my PAL license, paid for the items and left the store. Was up at the bush range cleaning and firing the rifle within 3 hours. I detest the need to produce any licence as I grew up without ever needing any such thing. Guns of all types were freely available at most department stores without anything other than proof of age.

The government does not have your best interests to heart when imposing restrictions, hurdles, licences, etc in your path when you decide to buy something. All governments do this in order to impose control on you. Their only goal is complete control of all aspects of your life. The apathetic compliance to every insane rule imposed by government is the only reason your freedoms are being eroded. Unfortunately they are winning the war due to vast indifference and unreasoning people who will not question why the very people who are supposed to be serving the citizens - do not!

Teach your children the definition of the word freedom, as it will soon be a thing of the past. It saddens me immensely to witness this utter deterioration of such a beautiful country as South Africa ! IMHO

a reply to: Grazor



South Africa like many other places in the world bought into the politically correct progressive pipe dream. I will tell ya what let's take a look back in 10 years from now and I bet SA will be a crap hole country just like many other African nations.


When you cut away all the politically correct crap you can see things very clear.

a reply to: SK414

For a white Afrikaner in SA, Freedom is basically a thing of the past already.

Another thing to notice about this proposed tracking of weapons, is that this shows that the government knows nothing about guns. You can not alter a well designed weapon without compromising the strength and accuracy of the weapon. There is now way that this can be done!

a reply to: IndependentOpinion

The worst part of it is that we could actually stop the insanity if we could work as a team with a common goal, instead of fragmentation and small groups easily dominated by government heavy handed tactics. I see it happening all over now as we give up our rights, freedoms, and personal viewpoints to the wingnuts who firmly believe in the fairy tale your governments want you to think will exist when complete control transpires. I call it the Bad World Order. IMHO

a reply to: SK414

In my eyes, the SA government is the most corrupt group of all ages. I mean they will do ANYTHING if they can pocket something. If it does not bring cash into their hands, they don't want it. I will bet my last dollar that someone who knew that the Presidency will agree to anything if they can gain some free cash, proposed this plan to the government, knowing it would not succeed!

They say that this is part of job creating, but why??? Who are you going to get to add this "microdots" onto the weapons? How much will it pay? Where is this going to be done?

All of those questions in irreverent! The Main answer is WHO are you going to take to court it a gun explodes in you hand because the strength of the weapon was compromised because of this "adding of tracking"?? Or even who is going to control the system?

originally posted by: IndependentOpinion
a reply to: tastyrawmeat

Actually yes. I know a former police weapons instructor, and we told me that the average period a white person has to wait before receiving his/her license, is about 6 - 24 months. (many of my friends are still waiting to get approved after 12 months). But for an average black person, its anything between 2 weeks - 6 months.

It seems that if you are white, you get placed on the end of the list.

But his is just what was said by a former police instructor, there is no links to back up my story.

I'm sorry but I have to agree that this is nothing but conjecture.

Example: "I have a friend that owns a gun shop in Pretoria, and he told me that his white customers get their licenses in 5 working days, while his black customers have to wait up to 3 years, and often have to reapply because their licenses 'get lost'."

It's not true, but my point is that hearsay simply has no place in a debate. If we are going to use real examples I'll mention my brother whom is a registered "gun collector" and "professional hunter" and whenever he buys a new gun (of which he already has about a dozen) the license takes 1-3 months.

The problem is that there are no verifiable statistics on how long it takes to get your gun license. Undoubtedly where you apply and what time of the year, who handles your application, etc. has an influence on the time frame. And I'm sure that we can all agree that a fair amount of corruption and a certain amount of palm greasing will get you your license a lot faster.

I simply cannot go along with the idea that your race has any influence on the speed of your application.

originally posted by: IndependentOpinion

For a white Afrikaner in SA, Freedom is basically a thing of the past already.

Another thing to notice about this proposed tracking of weapons, is that this shows that the government knows nothing about guns. You can not alter a well designed weapon without compromising the strength and accuracy of the weapon. There is now way that this can be done!

You do know what "microdotting" is, right? A single microdot or even dozens can be applied to any surface without anyone even knowing it's there. You can do thousands as well, but that will be visible with the naked eye. No microdot will have any influence on the strength or accuracy of a firearm. Unless you put it down the barrel. We can only hold thumbs that they won't be that stupid.

That being said, we can agree that the gun control laws as it is, is seriously flawed. The whole point was to "disarm" criminals and get illegal firearms off the streets. But the irony is that the criminals have never been bothered by laws (by definition) and therefore the gun laws has no impact on the "bad guys with guns". Only the the good guys follow the law, and with the stringent laws, complicated and expensive application process and long waiting times, the good guys are less likely to buy a gun, making them even more vulnerable against the criminals with the illegal firearms. The laws are a joke, no doubt.

The whole licensing process (drivers, firearm, etc.) should take 3 days at most with the type of technology we have today. It could even take minutes if they actually made an effort... But uselessness is unfortunately just something all (South African) government department lives by. So sad. If only we had some decent leadership to drive the country, this could actually be a pretty decent place...

Perhaps the idea of better tracking firearms is a good idea, but as with everything else in the country, good ideas can never be implemented by our government.

a reply to: Gemwolf

I'm sorry but I have to agree that this is nothing but conjecture.

It's not true, but my point is that hearsay simply has no place in a debate.

ATS Terms state that users shall not post any knowingly false material! When on ATS, I follow those Terms.

If we are going to use real examples I'll mention my brother whom is a registered "gun collector" and "professional hunter" and whenever he buys a new gun (of which he already has about a dozen) the license takes 1-3 months.

I thought you said "hearsay simply has no place in a debate", because where are your documentation on that?

And again I should ask, because when I asked this the last time, I got no response.

Correct me if I'm wrong, because I think I see the confusion. Are you talking about applying for a new weapon taking 9 weeks? Meaning after already passing you knowledge of the Firearms Control Act, receiving training for Gun Safety Training, and receiving the Competency Certificate.

You do know what "microdotting" is, right? A single microdot or even dozens can be applied to any surface without anyone even knowing it's there. You can do thousands as well, but that will be visible with the naked eye. No microdot will have any influence on the strength or accuracy of a firearm. Unless you put it down the barrel. We can only hold thumbs that they won't be that stupid.

I know that it is a simple micro-dot containing some kind of identification numbers. But lets look at this openmindedly. The serial numbers that gets stamped into, or engraved into any weapon, is easily filed off. This happens all around the world. And even the inside of the barrel can be altered to make sure bullets fired from that gun can not be tracked back to any weapon.

So if you only stick on the microdot onto the weapon, ANYONE can just remove it without leaving any evidence that there ever was one! The only logical way you can add this dots is to somehow build it into the weapon, so that it could not be easily removed with anyone with a magnifying-glass and a sharp object.

And yes, you can say that people might not know where to look on the weapon, and might miss it. True, but the fact that this made it onto ATS means that anyone in SA will be able to come to the same knowledge and able to search for, and remove said dot. So even when looking only at this fact, this will not work and will have no impact.

It is just the same as car alarm systems. The people that install them, and build them, is sometimes the people breaking in to your vehicle, or know the people that do.

Well here all along I thought that funny little mark on my posterior was just a wee mole, but it turns out these devilish Cannucks have figured out how to implant tracking microdots where the sun rarely shines! If it wasn't for my fairly steady diet of beans I would probably be somewhat worried, but as it sits, I'm sure the tracking system has been highly corrupted! I'm gonna check my guns right away of course!

a reply to: IndependentOpinion

"Here is SA, an average of 7000 illegal firearms gets 'lost' (Stolen) out of police safes each month. I'll give the links to the news articles when I can. This is a well known fact in SA, because this issue has been in the local news many times before. "

7000 firearms gets "lost" each month? Sounds like SA police department have a good business in their hands.
Someone is making big bucks for sure.