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NYPD cops badly beaten by suspects during arrest

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posted on Mar, 10 2015 @ 12:28 PM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: CallmeRaskolnikov
I didn't say it would compel anyone to be compliant. I suggested that perhaps it would make the situation more manageable having 2 less people to deal with and thus allow more of a chance to detain to remaining two. So instead of having to fight 4 people into cuffs at once, each officer would only have to contend with one person at a time and then they could deal with suspects that were tasered and incapacitated.


Why would they want to engage them in close-quarters, hand to hand combat at that point? Their non-lethal weapons would have been useless after discharge. The suspects are fortunate they were not shot and/or killed.


Perhaps they actually took into consideration the fact that if even just one of their potential bullets passed through a wall, a floor or a ceiling in the wrong manner then they would have collateral damage on their hands. Is the potential killing of an innocent resident of that apartment complex by accident worth it?


Your knowledge of firearms is a bit lacking, the type of ammunition that police officers use is not designed to penetrate hard targets and would have been unlikely to travel through the fireproof masonry walls used in apartment complexes such as in the one they were located.


Close quarters is where hand to hand is safest and most effective.

You pull a gun on me anywhere within 10 feet and that gun is now mine. Fact.




posted on Mar, 10 2015 @ 12:29 PM
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a reply to: CallmeRaskolnikov



why do i need to watch a video of a cop getting killed with his own gun? so i feel bad for these cops and change my mind to think that they should have shot all 4 people in that apartment? Please.

No. I could care less if you feel bad for anyone.

The point I was making is that when you are a cop.... wearing a gun on your side.... when any person you interact with decides to throw punches at you, that presents a real issue.

The issue is this.... You have a person that obviously has no regard for the law that can take your service weapon and shoot you, your partner, witnesses... etc.

But that is all okay with some people.



posted on Mar, 10 2015 @ 12:33 PM
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Having a rough time mustering up sympathy for the slave patrols.



posted on Mar, 10 2015 @ 12:34 PM
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originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: CallmeRaskolnikov



why do i need to watch a video of a cop getting killed with his own gun? so i feel bad for these cops and change my mind to think that they should have shot all 4 people in that apartment? Please.

No. I could care less if you feel bad for anyone.

The point I was making is that when you are a cop.... wearing a gun on your side.... when any person you interact with decides to throw punches at you, that presents a real issue.

The issue is this.... You have a person that obviously has no regard for the law that can take your service weapon and shoot you, your partner, witnesses... etc.

But that is all okay with some people.


So police should be allowed to walk around with their gun trained on anyone they perceive as a threat, before there is any threat? Maybe pull up your skirt and learn to fight...



posted on Mar, 10 2015 @ 12:42 PM
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originally posted by: CallmeRaskolnikov

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: CallmeRaskolnikov
Did the officers not have tasers on them?


Do you even know how a taser works? How do two people taze four people in a close-quarters, violent situation?


do i know how a taser works? seriously? that's your response...

maybe if they dropped two of them with tasers it would have made the situation easier to handle by disabling and temporarily paralyzing 2 out of the 4 people. I'm not pretending to know what the best approach to this debacle should have been. I'm just tossing out alternatives to executing four people in an apartment building before they've had their day in court.



Sounds like a movie straight out of Hollywood... With that one statement I can tell your either trolling here or you've never actually been in an altercation where multiple people attacked you at once. I bet they were down and in defensive positions...ie hands on their heads covering themselves up...before 5 seconds in. You know being in a stairwell and all its not like they were far from them to begin with. The 21' rule will apply here as well basically.

I don't mean to flame you but it really gets under my skin when people say stuff like this. Its totally unrealistic and people always seem to fall into it. Sucks for the cops who put themselves in such an unprotected situation without proper backup. I'm also glad they got the guys who did it because they're pretty scummy too. Even if they did nothing else they beat the cops so there's that.



posted on Mar, 10 2015 @ 12:51 PM
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originally posted by: MALBOSIA

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: CallmeRaskolnikov



why do i need to watch a video of a cop getting killed with his own gun? so i feel bad for these cops and change my mind to think that they should have shot all 4 people in that apartment? Please.

No. I could care less if you feel bad for anyone.

The point I was making is that when you are a cop.... wearing a gun on your side.... when any person you interact with decides to throw punches at you, that presents a real issue.

The issue is this.... You have a person that obviously has no regard for the law that can take your service weapon and shoot you, your partner, witnesses... etc.

But that is all okay with some people.


So police should be allowed to walk around with their gun trained on anyone they perceive as a threat, before there is any threat? Maybe pull up your skirt and learn to fight...

No, people should not attack other people.
If you are a cop, you have a responsibility to keep your weapon out of the hands of criminals... which would include people that attack police officers.
As far as 'pulling up one's skirt'.... Civilized people don't fight.
It would be the uncivilized people that make police necessary.


edit on bu312015-03-10T13:04:21-05:0001America/ChicagoTue, 10 Mar 2015 13:04:21 -05001u15 by butcherguy because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 10 2015 @ 12:59 PM
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originally posted by: MALBOSIA

Close quarters is where hand to hand is safest and most effective.

You pull a gun on me anywhere within 10 feet and that gun is now mine. Fact.


If my choices were fist fight or shoot someone within 10 feet that was threatening my life I would not go with fist fight.



posted on Mar, 10 2015 @ 01:13 PM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

There are ways to beat the 21' rule...google instructor Zero for a good display of this. Most people however just don't train like a special operations warrior, so they just don't have the muscle memory and experience with applying it for real. Generally though it is not a good idea to draw on someone already advancing on you under 21'. You'd really be surprised how fast things go down.



posted on Mar, 10 2015 @ 01:15 PM
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a reply to: RickyD

Personally I would take my chances and hope that me cocking the hammer scares them more than me cocking my fist.



posted on Mar, 10 2015 @ 01:16 PM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

You could...however if your wrong you risk more than an ass beating, ya know.



posted on Mar, 10 2015 @ 01:25 PM
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originally posted by: RickyD
You could...however if your wrong you risk more than an ass beating, ya know.


Agreed, but you can easily be killed in an 'ass beating' with one blow to the head, I am pretty sure we both know this as well.



posted on Mar, 10 2015 @ 02:40 PM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: CallmeRaskolnikov
I didn't say it would compel anyone to be compliant. I suggested that perhaps it would make the situation more manageable having 2 less people to deal with and thus allow more of a chance to detain to remaining two. So instead of having to fight 4 people into cuffs at once, each officer would only have to contend with one person at a time and then they could deal with suspects that were tasered and incapacitated.


Why would they want to engage them in close-quarters, hand to hand combat at that point? Their non-lethal weapons would have been useless after discharge. The suspects are fortunate they were not shot and/or killed.


Perhaps they actually took into consideration the fact that if even just one of their potential bullets passed through a wall, a floor or a ceiling in the wrong manner then they would have collateral damage on their hands. Is the potential killing of an innocent resident of that apartment complex by accident worth it?


Your knowledge of firearms is a bit lacking, the type of ammunition that police officers use is not designed to penetrate hard targets and would have been unlikely to travel through the fireproof masonry walls used in apartment complexes such as in the one they were located.


you're really not getting this. so i'm just going to stop trying to explain how reducing the number of people you have to contend with at once by 50% would be productive.

and the potential still exists for a resident of that building to be injured if the four officers were to open fire regardless of if the bullets are hollow point or not.

you can continue to think that shoot first ask questions later is an appropriate attitude for a police department to have. i disagree. oh well.



posted on Mar, 10 2015 @ 02:47 PM
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a reply to: CallmeRaskolnikov

Guns and tasers follow the same steps to deploy. In a stairwell you don't have the time to deploy either unless your one badass constantly training warrior (doubt they have anywhere close). These sort of incidents happen in mear moments. Advance 10' in a hostile manner right now and time it...then use some sort of gun or stand in and even just tucked in your waist, and draw it. Compare your times and then imagine the extra stress of a real event. Or you could YouTube that situation too as its been shown many times. You just don't have time. These officers made a mistake exposing themselves to an overwhelming force in close quarters without backup and their guard down. Bet they learned their lesson...however more likely they just learned to be more violent towards those they encounter. Bruised egos and all.
edit on 10-3-2015 by RickyD because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 10 2015 @ 02:49 PM
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originally posted by: CallmeRaskolnikov
a reply to: butcherguy

Maybe those cops were just smart enough to realize that shooting 4 "suspects" dead in stairwell probably wouldn't be the best idea in the world. Granted what these guys did was totally out of line and they deserve a punishment, but I don't think that a bullet to head is the punishment that fits the crime, even if they were cops. What they did was incredibly stupid and brazen and they'll all go to jail for what they did.

Plus the building was locked down and all of the men were arrested. Would it have been better if they were all four men were shot dead for resisting being put in handcuffs & fighting? I don't think so.

Did the officers not have tasers on them? Seems more like ineffective police procedure that allowed the 4 men to get over on the officers. Not every cop has to be Judge Dredd and be judge, jury and executioner in the streets. Even if the law is broken. The penalty for resisting arrest and assaulting an officer isn't death though I'm sure some wish it were.



So cops should just allow themselves to be beaten every time they encounter a group of criminals? That is EXACTLY what you are saying here. You are also completely sheltered. "Did they have tasers" Newsflash buddy, Tasers are single shot, they would have, AT MOST been able to MAYBE subdue two of the suspects, the other two would then be free to beat the officers as they were occupied with trying to subdue two of the suspects.

Got it, you think perfectly good Cops should be punching bags for criminals because criminals deserve to be treated with respect and civility, even if they have denied that to so many others.

Ridiculous.



posted on Mar, 10 2015 @ 02:50 PM
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originally posted by: CallmeRaskolnikov
you're really not getting this. so i'm just going to stop trying to explain how reducing the number of people you have to contend with at once by 50% would be productive.


And after you tased two of the four (in close quarters) how do you predict the behavior of the other two or contend with them and their possible actions?


and the potential still exists for a resident of that building to be injured if the four officers were to open fire regardless of if the bullets are hollow point or not.


The only people that are likely to be injured by firing in a masonry stairwell are the people standing in it unless you would like to explain how ammunition not designed to penetrate hard targets is suddenly capable of doing such.


you can continue to think that shoot first ask questions later is an appropriate attitude for a police department to have. i disagree. oh well.


Where did I say that? I said that a violent, felony assault should be met with overwhelming force which hand to hand combat and non-lethal weapons, in my opinion, and based on what was reported, not the best options.


edit on 10-3-2015 by AugustusMasonicus because: networkdude has no beer



posted on Mar, 10 2015 @ 02:56 PM
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ok, ya got me. all four of those scumbags should have been shot to death in the apartment complex. no problems there.
edit on 10-3-2015 by CallmeRaskolnikov because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 10 2015 @ 02:59 PM
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I can actually picture what people keep saying...

Two officers enter the stairwell and find the group of suspects hiding out. Suspects hear cops ordering them against the wall and they all turn...close up on mean mugs. Camera pans to officers...they look at each other and nod as they simultaneously draw tasers. Officers shoot the first 2 suspects before they even get 2 steps (mind you the scene is already 60sec in.). Just as the taser hits they drop their end and both round house the other 2 suspects. A catchy phrase is said or pun is made as they cuff all 4 incapacitated suspects who are barely moving knocked out on the floor.

Yea like I said...HOLLYWOOD!

This is what those of you who say this stuff sound like I swear.



posted on Mar, 10 2015 @ 03:07 PM
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originally posted by: CallmeRaskolnikov
ok, ya got me. all four of those scumbags should have been shot to death in the apartment complex. no problems there.


No what should have happened is these officers should have remained at a distance as far as possible while immediately calling backup. They should have had a hand on their gun taser whatever they had. Then if an advance was made they would be ready at moments notice to respond and would have the time to do so because they didn't close the distance too much. More than likely the suspects wouldn't have tried anything at that point because of the obviousness of the disadvantage they would have. Should they advance...yes shoot them because at that point its justified and there isn't much choice left.

However they should have never been so close out numbered without backup already notified. I'm sure our ATS resident cops would point these same things out too.



posted on Mar, 10 2015 @ 03:10 PM
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a reply to: RickyD

i definitely agree with you.



posted on Mar, 10 2015 @ 03:11 PM
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originally posted by: CallmeRaskolnikov

ok, ya got me. all four of those scumbags should have been shot to death in the apartment complex.


Yeah, and after that they should have tased them, pepper sprayed them, cuffed them, applied a choke hold, strip searched them, shot their dogs, shot their neighbor's dogs, not read them their rights and sprinkled some crack on them.

Hysteria much?




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