The "Second Coming" gives those in power an excuse to wage war perpetually

a reply to: Awen24

How is it a non-sign?

Jesus prophesised that wars and rumors of wars must happen. I don't see how this can't be taken in the context of promoting war to some degree. If he had said something like, "You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but don't participate in them", I would be more understanding of your POV.

The fact that Jesus says wars are going to happen gives every new generation of idiots a free ride in thinking as long as there is war Jesus might come back. It may not be right, but it is the sad truth of our world.

a reply to: VigiliaProcuratio
and I wasn't implying you meant that. Sorry if it came across that way. I was taking the opportunity to say those words I guess.

I am curious now though by what you mean by "that kind of talk is asking for trouble".

A subtle threat? What is the nature of this 'trouble'?

a reply to: DISRAELI

Can you name a single war which has been promoted by the people in power on the basis that "we need to have wars like this for the sake of the second coming"?

"For God and Country" ring a bell?

I do agree on a certain level. The whole fatalistic approach to Armageddon, the total destruction of the earth and Judgement Day is well entrenched in many religions.

The fallout from that ideology is to become complacent about the earths environment and resources. "What the hell, blow it all up, its all going to be destroyed anyway when Jesus returns."

a reply to: intrptr
Even "for God and country" did not specifically have the Second Coming in mind.
It was really "for our country, and we know that God will back us up".

The dilemma for the opening post is that the people who are talking this way are not in power, and those who are in power have always used completely different excuses.
As indeed, they were doing even before Jesus was born.

a reply to: DISRAELI

The dilemma for the opening post is that the people who are talking this way are not in power, and those who are in power have always used completely different excuses.

I respect that except, notice how the focus against the current enemy is primarily religious in nature.

In the Godless Main Stream all the terminology begins with Islam or Muslim.

Muslim Extremist…

Radical Islam…

Jihadist…

ETA: Most definitely religion is used as an excuse to wage aggressive war.

a reply to: intrptr
Isn't that because those groups themselves are putting themselves forward as Muslim groups?
And "we must defend ourselves against physical attack from that religious group" is not "we must promote the Second Coming".
The standard argument that "religion causes wars" is not enough to make the case stated in the OP.

a reply to: c0gN1t1v3D1ss0nanC3

Well...we can never be too sure as to the exactness of what has been attributed to Jesus. Verifying this stuff is one thing, translating it is another. I don't know much of Hebrew but I can't seem to find a direct translation for "must". In any case, he probably figured that war was an inevitability given the political environment at the time and as it happens, not much has changed since then.

a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

I wasn't implying you meant that. Sorry if it came across that way.

No worries about that.

I am curious now though by what you mean by "that kind of talk is asking for trouble". A subtle threat? What is the nature of this 'trouble'?

I don't do threats, ain't my style. What I meant is that it invites people to say silly things in return and then a flame-fest starts. Nothing wrong with a bit of banter or just being upfront and I'm not one for being easily-offended, but that irked me a bit.

Like the US government needs excuses to wage wars. Ahahahah.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
In my opinion those in power have created the perfect war manifesto in the myth of Jesus returning after war to fix everything.

Only American Christians fundies believe in something like that. What is your point?

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: Tangerine

You keep saying this but it has no real meaning when you consider the fact that the words are still there to be read. I do not subscribe to a belief that a man named Jesus actually existed. What does exist though? The words that were attributed to him.

It has great meaning to them precisely because they think Jesus said it! That's the very reason they believe it. I'm amazed that that hasn't occurred to you. You don't see them quoting Frodo and taking it seriously.

originally posted by: VigiliaProcuratio
a reply to: Tangerine

Sorry, but you're the one regurgitating here. You clearly have no interest in religion other than to contradict those who do at every opportunity, so there is very little point in you posting in this section.

On the contrary, I'm very interested in the history, sociology and psychology of religion. An interest in why a group of people might rub their bodies with pig fat and dance in a circle and chant doesn't imply that I have to share their beliefs or activities. I am especially interested in the process of brainwashing and how it destroys the ability to reason critically. I find that fascinating.

You haven't noticed, but I don't challenge people who state their beliefs. I challenge people who claim that their beliefs are facts. Big difference.

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: intrptr
Even "for God and country" did not specifically have the Second Coming in mind.
It was really "for our country, and we know that God will back us up".

...

No, it means to serve God and to serve country. In other words, to do their bidding.

a reply to: VigiliaProcuratio

Well then that's fair enough.

Nothing there I can disagree with.

a reply to: Tangerine
But not specifically in relation to the Second Coming, which was my point.
The OP was about specific belief in the Second Coming as a cause of wars, so offering a vague connection between "religion" and wars does not make the case.

I see no evidence that Christians want more war/chaos, but apparently some muslims think this is a good idea.


www.foxnews.com...

"Iran’s Ayatollah Ali Khamenei and President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad are convinced that the End of Days has come. They believe the Shia messiah known as the “Twelfth Imam” or the “Mahdi” will appear soon to establish a global Islamic kingdom known as the caliphate.
What’s more, they believe the way to hasten the coming of the Twelfth Imam is to annihilate Israel (which they call the “Little Satan”), and the United States (which they call the “Great Satan”)."

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: Tangerine
But not specifically in relation to the Second Coming, which was my point.
The OP was about specific belief in the Second Coming as a cause of wars, so offering a vague connection between "religion" and wars does not make the case.

I believe the contention is that a belief in Armageddon encourages believers to support war in general as a way to get there faster and because they believe war is God ordained. I have personally known fundamentalists who express that view.

originally posted by: works4dhs
I see no evidence that Christians want more war/chaos, but apparently some muslims think this is a good idea.


"

You need to talk to more fundamentalists.

originally posted by: Tangerine
I have personally known fundamentalists who express that view.

This brings me back to my earlier observation, that those who express that view are not in power, and those who are in power have always offered a completely different set of excuses.

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: works4dhs
I see no evidence that Christians want more war/chaos, but apparently some muslims think this is a good idea.


"

You need to talk to more fundamentalists.

They don't even represent 1% of the world population. Why should we care about what American fundies believe in?

originally posted by: Awen24
Your premise is false.


Jesus' point is not that 'Wars and Rumours of Wars' are the "harbinger of Jesus' return", as you've claimed,
but the opposite.
This isn't a sign; it's a NON-sign.

as I said in another thread....Jesus was just pointing out the natural behaviors of Man, generation after generation
it is the character of natural men to engage in all levels of War> combat> taking from others> strife> plotting> etc.

mankind, left to his own rules/laws/devices will revert to Animalistic drives & behavior, just look at what's ongoing with ISIS, and Boko Haram today to the surrounding villages, towns, populations...