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Spirituality might work if it wasn't so stupid.

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posted on Mar, 10 2015 @ 11:14 AM
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a reply to: bb23108




The heart yearns for union with reality - and this yearning drives the individual to seek such union in an endless variety of ways - from physical union to mystical union to divine union. None of this seeking works because union with reality is already the case. No other world than the one we appear in now is necessary - reality is as present here as anywhere.


I have to agree. I think it should be admitted, however, that most of reality is found outside, with very little of it found within. No so called inner-worlds would exist without something outside to relate to.




posted on Mar, 10 2015 @ 11:37 AM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: bb23108


The heart yearns for union with reality - and this yearning drives the individual to seek such union in an endless variety of ways - from physical union to mystical union to divine union. None of this seeking works because union with reality is already the case. No other world than the one we appear in now is necessary - reality is as present here as anywhere.


I have to agree. I think it should be admitted, however, that most of reality is found outside, with very little of it found within. No so called inner-worlds would exist without something outside to relate to.

There is no inside or outside in terms of reality. Of course, if we assume identification with the body-mind, then such terms appear meaningful. But is such identification with the body-mind our actual reality, rather than just our apparent reality?

That is what must be discovered, and is a spiritual matter - because no materialistic argument is going to consider the possibility that we are not simply the body-mind. This is the close-minded error of materialists.

Reality is obviously not the body-mind, because reality continues regardless of whether the body dies or not. However, reality is also NOT separate from the body-mind, nor anything appearing. This is the error that most spiritual seekers make when justifying their escaping from the body - they believe that reality is apart from this world of bodies, to be discovered within.


edit on 3/10/2015 by bb23108 because:



posted on Mar, 10 2015 @ 11:44 AM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope


If one feels shame for reading a couple words, they themselves are to blame. It's amazing how someone can be offended by another when it is only themselves in the room, a sign that perhaps one should get out more.


the pen is mightier than the sword, as they say.


And the idea that the religious are not spiritual is without merit. Of course, the spiritually-minded assert this non-argument in a religious fashion.


not everyone who takes tylenol is an addict.


The honing, rather than the suppression, of oneself is where one might wish to start. Strength is required for battling any illness.


i agree.


am speaking of adults. But one might take a lesson from children insofar as they do not require spirituality.


a rose by any other name...



edit on 10-3-2015 by TzarChasm because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 10 2015 @ 11:51 AM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
I think it should be admitted, however, that most of reality is found outside, with very little of it found within. No so called inner-worlds would exist without something outside to relate to.

There is no inside or outside to what this is - reality.

But you seem to believe there is a 'thing' called you and a 'thing' called the outside world. There are no things.
There is only ever what is happening and you are that.
edit on 10-3-2015 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 10 2015 @ 11:56 AM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Bluesma

That is fair enough. But let's call it what it is. There is no exploring going on. There is no travelling. There is no developing. They are literally not travelling. Literally not exploring. Literally not developing. There are sitting. They are sleeping. They are being as still as possible.e these grand adventurous metaphors simply do not work.


Don't agree. There can be travelling into levels of ones own psychology that goes on, into areas previously unknown, unconscious, that become known and conscious through certain practices. That is exploring into new territory for me.

Development can happen, as old thoughts and beliefs and views become conscious, and as result, begin to change- the growth of new perceptions, thoughts and beliefs is development of them, and gives rise to development of different behaviorisms and reactions to the world. Because ones behaviors and habits impact the world and others around us, a real, literal development can possibly happen and be observed by others.



posted on Mar, 10 2015 @ 12:46 PM
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I really think it depends on how you define 'spirituality'...

To me it is about 'attending' to one's spirit by engaging with the world. Spirituality is walking around my yard spreading seeds for the birds while feeling a spring breeze fresh against my skin, watching the sun spark among the leaves of the tree high above my head, hearing a woodpecker and following the sound until I spot both it and it's baby, stopping to watch bees gathering nectar, and leaning in close enough to hear one delving into it's flower (they sound like teeny-tiney little power drills)..

Spirituality is also reading and learning - my bookshelves are stuffed with subjects ranging from quantum physics to psychology to ancient history...including books on all the 'main' religions of the world..

Spirituality is about pondering ideas such as the nature of love or where creativity comes from (some people say it is an evolutionary trait related to innovating tools and other survival needs, but that doesn't explain why artists, musicians, etc feel compelled to create simply for the sake of creating.)

I consider myself a spiritual person, yet I find the scent of incense repugnant and meditation far too boring to engage in...I have no patience for the concept of 'transcending' this world, if there is any purpose at all to our being here, it is to learn, experience, and evolve as 'persons' thru our 'Earthly' pursuits (though I think that exploring spirituality is an important inclusion to those pursuits.)

And I agree with Bluesma that there can be value in going 'within', as it can result in development of new thoughts and new ways of perceiving oneself, the world, and the people in it...as well, it can be a way to work thru traumas and come to terms with the unpleasant 'realities' which many people have faced and been 'broken' by..

So while I agree that some people's concept of spirituality borders on the insipid, I don't think it should be ruled out as an entirely worthless use of one's time..

As well, I think there is merit in the idea that the 'lack' of spirituality is what drives the excessive materialism and over consumption rampant in today's world..

edit on 10-3-2015 by lostgirl because: clarification



posted on Mar, 10 2015 @ 01:00 PM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope

You mentioned Martin Luther King and Ghandi. These people changed the world when they applied themselves to reality, when they applied themselves outward, with reason. Read Letters From a Birmingham Jail and try remaining unconvinced. Only when they stopped being spiritual, only when they weren't being spiritual, and focused on maybe politics, or world affairs, or the real people outside of them, never once equating the world with themselves, did they accomplish something the world needed. What if every spiritual person did this? This is a spiritual path worth taking, especially with the greedy hounds running this world amok.

I was surprised to see that the character Paul Smit speaking about how he takes the message of non duality to big companies as a presentation, he says he presents it to 'normal' people. He says in this video that he is amazed that these companies are getting it and is amazed that he gets a lot of work in this direction.




edit on 10-3-2015 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 10 2015 @ 03:32 PM
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a reply to: bb23108




There is no inside or outside in terms of reality. Of course, if we assume identification with the body-mind, then such terms appear meaningful. But is such identification with the body-mind our actual reality, rather than just our apparent reality?

That is what must be discovered, and is a spiritual matter - because no materialistic argument is going to consider the possibility that we are not simply the body-mind. This is the close-minded error of materialists.

Reality is obviously not the body-mind, because reality continues regardless of whether the body dies or not. However, reality is also NOT separate from the body-mind, nor anything appearing. This is the error that most spiritual seekers make when justifying their escaping from the body - they believe that reality is apart from this world of bodies, to be discovered within.


The only difference between reality and apparent reality is how it appears to its beings. This difference in appearance is the direct result of difference in bodies ("body/minds")—different eyes, ears, brains, etc.— and thus difference in relationship to the rest of it. How does it appear to nothing? It doesn't. No spiritual explanation needed.

There is an inside to any boundary or surface. Inside and outside are useful metaphorical and spacial concepts.

edit on 10-3-2015 by LesMisanthrope because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 10 2015 @ 03:32 PM
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a reply to: Bluesma


Don't agree. There can be travelling into levels of ones own psychology that goes on, into areas previously unknown, unconscious, that become known and conscious through certain practices. That is exploring into new territory for me.

Development can happen, as old thoughts and beliefs and views become conscious, and as result, begin to change- the growth of new perceptions, thoughts and beliefs is development of them, and gives rise to development of different behaviorisms and reactions to the world. Because ones behaviors and habits impact the world and others around us, a real, literal development can possibly happen and be observed by others.


I see no merit to this choice of metaphors. A new, more honest metaphorical and mythological account of spirituality must be devised, one that touches closer to the truth. I think "trying a new hobby" or "imagining" might be more apt than "travelling into levels" and "exploring new territory". You are literally doing the opposite of travelling. You are litterally doing the exact opposite of exploring. You are not searching, following paths, or advancing forward in any shape or form, and I think it gives a bad name to true explorers and travellers. To sit down, close the eyes, and assert that I am travelling and exploring is beyond contradiction. There is nothing harrowing nor adventerous about it. Is this idea a metaphor for something, or a lie? I do not understand why we cannot call it what it is—retreat, resignation, falling-backwards, hiding, sleeping, hibernation, closing the senses, uninterestedness.



posted on Mar, 10 2015 @ 03:33 PM
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a reply to: lostgirl


I really think it depends on how you define 'spirituality'...

To me it is about 'attending' to one's spirit by engaging with the world. Spirituality is walking around my yard spreading seeds for the birds while feeling a spring breeze fresh against my skin, watching the sun spark among the leaves of the tree high above my head, hearing a woodpecker and following the sound until I spot both it and it's baby, stopping to watch bees gathering nectar, and leaning in close enough to hear one delving into it's flower (they sound like teeny-tiney little power drills)..

Spirituality is also reading and learning - my bookshelves are stuffed with subjects ranging from quantum physics to psychology to ancient history...including books on all the 'main' religions of the world..

Spirituality is about pondering ideas such as the nature of love or where creativity comes from (some people say it is an evolutionary trait related to innovating tools and other survival needs, but that doesn't explain why artists, musicians, etc feel compelled to create simply for the sake of creating.)

I consider myself a spiritual person, yet I find the scent of incense repugnant and meditation far too boring to engage in...I have no patience for the concept of 'transcending' this world, if there is any purpose at all to our being here, it is to learn, experience, and evolve as 'persons' thru our 'Earthly' pursuits (though I think that exploring spirituality is an important inclusion to those pursuits.)

And I agree with Bluesma that there can be value in going 'within', as it can result in development of new thoughts and new ways of perceiving oneself, the world, and the people in it...as well, it can be a way to work thru traumas and come to terms with the unpleasant 'realities' which many people have faced and been 'broken' by..

So while I agree that some people's concept of spirituality borders on the insipid, I don't think it should be ruled out as an entirely worthless use of one's time..

As well, I think there is merit in the idea that the 'lack' of spirituality is what drives the excessive materialism and over consumption rampant in today's world..



Your habits do not involve spirits, nor spiritual pursuits and costumes. Why call your lifestyle spiritual at all, when it is inextricably connected to, and an expression of, physis? Everything you've stated is physicality, not spirituality. You are being real.



posted on Mar, 10 2015 @ 04:16 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Elementalist

You have literally found nothing. The dishonesty is tantamount to lying. Get over yourself.


Wow deny ignorance much?

Good way to reach my ignore list, but you don't care about me because you oppose how I live and exist in my body.

You sound like a sore loser.. go find meaning in your life, or its meaningless.

Goodbye...



posted on Mar, 10 2015 @ 05:21 PM
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Empty your cup, young grasshopper.

A gentleman such as yourself should respect other people's views. It isn't becoming to call out and generalize what you must surely know to be a large percentage of members here.
edit on 10-3-2015 by Alushe because: Appendage



posted on Mar, 10 2015 @ 05:56 PM
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a reply to: Elementalist


Wow deny ignorance much?

Good way to reach my ignore list, but you don't care about me because you oppose how I live and exist in my body.

You sound like a sore loser.. go find meaning in your life, or its meaningless.

Goodbye...


Deny ignorance all the time.

A word of the wise, if you cannot handle dissent or criticism, and must resort to name calling and fallacy, denying any ignorance isn't in your near future. I mean this with the utmost concern, for if harmless words on the internet bother you, wait until you get outside. If what you say has any truth to it, you should be able to express it in any number of ways, and put me in my place. If not, use another's criticism as a stepping stone, not a barrier. Work on your footing. Get stronger.

If not, ignore. Put your fingers in your ears. Shut everything out. Be spiritual.



posted on Mar, 10 2015 @ 05:57 PM
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a reply to: Alushe


Empty your cup, young grasshopper.

A gentleman such as yourself should respect other people's views. It isn't becoming to call out and generalize what you must surely know to be a large percentage of members here.


I do surely know. I've read at least a few threads on kundalini, astral projection, frequencies and chakras in this forum the past week. I think it's fair to read at least one or two contrarian views once and a while, wouldn't you say?

If I see someone dumping waste into a river, I'm going to call them out.

I perhaps mistakenly assumed we were all adults here. But I think I assumed rightly that people still mistake fiction for fact.



posted on Mar, 10 2015 @ 06:22 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
Spirituality might work if it wasn’t so stupid.

I have to ask, work how or at what?



posted on Mar, 10 2015 @ 06:29 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: bb23108

The only difference between reality and apparent reality is how it appears to its beings. This difference in appearance is the direct result of difference in bodies ("body/minds")—different eyes, ears, brains, etc.— and thus difference in relationship to the rest of it. How does it appear to nothing? It doesn't. No spiritual explanation needed.


How reality "appears" beyond the functions of the body-mind is unknown to those only identified with the body-mind.

However, that reality actually exists is tacitly understood, just like any object in front of you is tacitly obvious to exist. But the truth is that no matter how much the body-mind can describe even the simplest of objects, it never knows what that object is - what it actually is in reality.

Granted science has given us a vast description of what objects appear to be composed of, how they behave, what they look like, etc., - and spiritual adepts have also described in great detail the esoteric aspects of the body-mind; but no one has ever known what anything actually is!

In reality we all participate in a great mystery in which no one even knows what a single thing is! This has great spiritual significance when deeply felt and understood. It connects us to reality altogether, not as separate "knowers", but as free participants in this mysterious, unknowable, ever-changing appearance. In that state of whole bodily participation, reality spontaneously and non-separately moves us into deeper discovery of our actual condition.

So yes, the true import of spirituality is always right before us.

edit on 3/10/2015 by bb23108 because:



posted on Mar, 10 2015 @ 06:33 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: BlueMule

Let's be honest. It's the root of drug dependency.


Oh I do love fencing with you. I mean, I would much rather help you, but fencing is a nice consolation prize.

Psychedelics aren't addicting, and are useful for treating real addictions, such as alcoholism.

www.popsci.com...

They can treat all sorts of things. Including the ignorance of people who think spirituality is stupid.

They might be able to help your sick family member. That would be good for you too.

👣


edit on 024Tuesday000000America/ChicagoMar000000TuesdayAmerica/Chicago by BlueMule because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 10 2015 @ 06:35 PM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope

There are many things science, spirituality, religion and philosophy etc. etc. can not answer ...
I find nothing in your post to disagree with or be offended by
I do find it amusing, entertaining and also honest

Truth is about asking the right questions and one's intention in asking those questions

Those questions should not be addressed to a scientist, priest, philosopher etc. etc.
But to yourself
Only you can prove a truth to yourself
However some questions can not be answered ... and there is a beauty in that if one can accept that one does not know











edit on 10-3-2015 by artistpoet because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 10 2015 @ 10:14 PM
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"I perhaps mistakenly assumed we were all adults here. But I think I assumed rightly that people still mistake fiction for fact"

Adults respect each others views and can have a discussion without resorting to ad hominems.
edit on 10-3-2015 by Alushe because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 11 2015 @ 12:44 AM
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This is it, it couldn't be any different and no one is doing it.
Not a popular message for a identified person because he wants to exist.
This is dying while alive.
Seeing through the illusion of the I.
Paul Smit.


edit on 11-3-2015 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



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