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originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: Itisnowagain
Do me a favour and bump against a table leg and then tell me what you feel. Is there something?
The appearance appearing is constantly appearing different - moving and changing - but not in time............in awareness, which is timeless and spaceless.
And also was there a now when you hit it and has time passed afterwards?
originally posted by: Itisnowagain
Life without the me is life without the one who suffers it.
Nothing appears to change - life is just simply happening with no one in control.
no different from taking tylenol for a raging headache, if thats how you want to look at it. and who are you to shame anyone for that? suffering is not obligatory. save that for the religious (notice i didnt say spiritual).
i like my tylenol analogy better. less of a permanent fix and more of a situational therapy, a la nyquil and flu season. everyone has their cloudy day of the soul and everyone has their go-to for it. perhaps a responsible dose of anti depressants would eliminate the need for a lobotomy, if you catch my meaning. perhaps that means spirituality, maybe it means an actual trip to the pharmacy.
what "cure" would you suggest?
i fully agree. we may not learn from our mistakes, but we certainly get better at hiding them. it almost seems as though this stems from embracing our human fallibility as evidence of its divine polar opposite. the more we screw up, the more visible our "blessings" become. and again, this would seem to capitalize on the margin of deniability that both protects the divine cause from investigation and, by the same token, verifies it. but would you impugn a magician for making a crying child laugh?
originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Elementalist
Yes that's what I keep hearing. "It's about self-discovery and development!" Should I just take your word for it? Absolutely not. I'm going to take your argument and compare it to reality.
I have watched people of all cultures pray, chant, wear costumes, espouse spiritual and religious doctrines, meditate, self-flagellate, do yoga, abuse narcotics, practice asceticism, speak in tongues, smudges, sweat lodges, read minds, etc. etc. etc. As a grateful visitor to these cultures, I have participated in much of them myself.
I'm interested to hear how any of this is beneficial to the world at large, because as I can see it, the most spiritual people— that is, people who do this day in and day out, the ascetics, the sadhus, the priests, the gurus, the witch doctors, and devoted acolytes alike—have produced more beggars, sexual deviants, anti-women and anti-social dispositions, than any other pursuit known to mankind.
So tell me, what, besides these, has spirituality offered mankind besides these curses?
Something could only go so far inward before it becomes a point or nothing at all.
originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
Only when they stopped being spiritual, only when they weren't being spiritual, and focused on maybe politics, or world affairs, or the real people outside of them, never once equating the world with themselves, did they accomplish something the world needed. What if every spiritual person did this? This is a spiritual path worth taking, especially with the greedy hounds running this world amok. No amount of chanting, or praying, or vibrating is going to stop it, and spiritual people have a chance at meaningful advance, peace, respect, a better world, if they took charge and created outwardly rather than inwardly.