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Spirituality might work if it wasn't so stupid.

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posted on Mar, 16 2015 @ 10:20 AM
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Spirituality is hard if not impossible to define and means different things to different people.

How long will you hunt for words?




posted on Mar, 16 2015 @ 10:22 AM
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a reply to: artistpoet

My mistake. Haven't had coffee yet. I agree.

A couple posters are trying to sell me on the idea that awareness doesn't change or age, yet they cannot confirm this with any sort of reasoning. It might be fruitless continuing to try and confirm his claim.



posted on Mar, 16 2015 @ 10:23 AM
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a reply to: Stormdancer777

That depends. How long will you be superstitious towards them?



posted on Mar, 16 2015 @ 10:28 AM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: TzarChasm

I am never bored. I read and consider every single post. I deeply care what people think, especially when they are wrong. I am also not a topic, but I would be flattered, if not mildly concerned, if you wrote a thread about me.


and yet you made a blatantly erroneous claim regarding the separation of intellect and spirituality in spite of many examples to the contrary and blithely ignored the allegory of the billionaire vs the immigrant family. life is full of unfair choices and lose-lose situations, which reveal to us both the depth of our character and the strength of our demons. perhaps spirituality isnt nearly as cut and dry as a straightforward thinker like yourself would appreciate, but thats life. there are concepts, mechanisms, and dreams that elude our physical fingers yet tug our heartstrings, cant be tasted or smelled or seen yet hurt or soothe more than any medicine or weapon you care to name. and it feels to me like your argument fails to take any of that into account. or perhaps you prefer to simply dismiss such sensations as chemically induced illusions that we exploit for psychological comfort.



posted on Mar, 16 2015 @ 10:35 AM
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a reply to: TzarChasm

None of which has anything to do with spirituality.



posted on Mar, 16 2015 @ 10:39 AM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope




A couple posters are trying to sell me on the idea that awareness doesn't change or age, yet they cannot confirm this with any sort of reasoning. It might be fruitless continuing to try and confirm his claim.


Surely "Awareness" is constantly changing depending on it's focus ... if not we would live in a static Universe which is not the case



posted on Mar, 16 2015 @ 11:05 AM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: TzarChasm

None of which has anything to do with spirituality.


our emotional relationship with the world has everything to do with spirituality. everything i just explained in my previous post are examples of how we feel about the world, how we feel about how we feel, how we feel about how the world feels about how we feel, etc. its all about our emotional disposition and how that affects our interactions and our aspirations. some people feel less than charitable, perhaps even futile, and so they become jerks. some people feel a connection that transcends any dimension you can point out with a microscope or telescope, and so they become nurturers. is that connection or sense of futility realistic? i dont know. what i do know is that to a point, reality is beyond our control. and to a point, reality is completely under our control. 10% action, 90% reaction. the difference between punching an irritable old racist in the face and helping an amputee with his groceries. relationships, emotional disposition, and a vast game of psychology. no more illusory than deciding everything means nothing and we are all doomed to obsoletion.



posted on Mar, 16 2015 @ 11:55 AM
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originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: TzarChasm

None of which has anything to do with spirituality.


our emotional relationship with the world has everything to do with spirituality. everything i just explained in my previous post are examples of how we feel about the world, how we feel about how we feel, how we feel about how the world feels about how we feel, etc. its all about our emotional disposition and how that affects our interactions and our aspirations. some people feel less than charitable, perhaps even futile, and so they become jerks. some people feel a connection that transcends any dimension you can point out with a microscope or telescope, and so they become nurturers. is that connection or sense of futility realistic? i dont know. what i do know is that to a point, reality is beyond our control. and to a point, reality is completely under our control. 10% action, 90% reaction. the difference between punching an irritable old racist in the face and helping an amputee with his groceries. relationships, emotional disposition, and a vast game of psychology. no more illusory than deciding everything means nothing and we are all doomed to obsoletion.


That was wonderfully explained.



posted on Mar, 16 2015 @ 12:05 PM
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a reply to: InTheLight

the wonderful thing about being a cynicist is everything becomes that much easier to disregard on principle.



posted on Mar, 16 2015 @ 12:20 PM
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originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: InTheLight

the wonderful thing about being a cynicist is everything becomes that much easier to disregard on principle.


Indeed, seems like taking the easy road...downhill.



posted on Mar, 16 2015 @ 12:46 PM
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Spoken like a person who has never meditated.

"Spirituality" has nothing to do with intelligence or moral code.

If you believe humans have a spirit, or soul, you are spiritual. Whether you choose to explore that line of thought is up to you.

If you think the brain cannot process the goings-on in the world around you with your eyes closed, you're in for a rude awakening. Go read "The Einstein Method" and try some of the visualization exercises. This stuff isn't even meditating, it's just allowing your subconscious mind to explore itself.



posted on Mar, 16 2015 @ 12:57 PM
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a reply to: TzarChasm


our emotional relationship with the world has everything to do with spirituality. everything i just explained in my previous post are examples of how we feel about the world, how we feel about how we feel, how we feel about how the world feels about how we feel, etc. its all about our emotional disposition and how that affects our interactions and our aspirations. some people feel less than charitable, perhaps even futile, and so they become jerks. some people feel a connection that transcends any dimension you can point out with a microscope or telescope, and so they become nurturers. is that connection or sense of futility realistic? i dont know. what i do know is that to a point, reality is beyond our control. and to a point, reality is completely under our control. 10% action, 90% reaction. the difference between punching an irritable old racist in the face and helping an amputee with his groceries. relationships, emotional disposition, and a vast game of psychology. no more illusory than deciding everything means nothing and we are all doomed to obsoletion.


Our emotional relationship with the world is a physical one, not a spiritual one. Relationship entails two or more objects in relation to each other. What, if anything, is spiritual about that? What needs to be spiritual about that? Nothing.

Some people feel this; some people feel that. None of this entails spirituality. Transcend what? Nothing; they haven't gone anywhere.

I agree with everything you say except that this is what spirituality entails. Instead, let's put our heads together and examine the reality of spirituality, which consists purely of people calling themselves spiritual, and the subsequent results of the actions and behaviours in trying to live up to their claims. Let's not simply heed what the spiritual tell us and take it on faith. This isn't about their feelings. Let's witness them and what they do, the reality of it. That is exactly what spirituality consists of—the asserting that oneself is spiritual, and the attempt to live up to that label.



posted on Mar, 16 2015 @ 01:03 PM
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a reply to: theCheddar




Spoken like a person who has never meditated.

"Spirituality" has nothing to do with intelligence or moral code.

If you believe humans have a spirit, or soul, you are spiritual. Whether you choose to explore that line of thought is up to you.

If you think the brain cannot process the goings-on in the world around you with your eyes closed, you're in for a rude awakening. Go read "The Einstein Method" and try some of the visualization exercises. This stuff isn't even meditating, it's just allowing your subconscious mind to explore itself.


I am quite proud to say I've been to the summit of Sagarmāthā. I've surveyed the world from the highest peaks. I've processed more of the world with eyes open than anyone staring at the back of their eyelids ever could.



posted on Mar, 16 2015 @ 01:07 PM
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a reply to: artistpoet




Surely "Awareness" is constantly changing depending on it's focus ... if not we would live in a static Universe which is not the case


Exactly so.



posted on Mar, 16 2015 @ 01:09 PM
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originally posted by: artistpoet
a reply to: LesMisanthrope




A couple posters are trying to sell me on the idea that awareness doesn't change or age, yet they cannot confirm this with any sort of reasoning. It might be fruitless continuing to try and confirm his claim.


Surely "Awareness" is constantly changing depending on it's focus ... if not we would live in a static Universe which is not the case

Awareness stays still with an ever changing image appearing out of it.
It is as if the screen of awareness is vibrating and those vibrations are sensed and projected (manifested) into an image.

The dreamer is always the same dreamer but the dream is constantly appearing different. The image in the mirror might change but the seeing aspect does not.
edit on 16-3-2015 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 16 2015 @ 02:16 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope


I am quite proud to say I've been to the summit of Sagarmāthā. I've surveyed the world from the highest peaks. I've processed more of the world with eyes open than anyone staring at the back of their eyelids ever could.

No doubt it feels good to be on top of the world looking down on creation.

Why let it bother you if someone closes their eyes instead of going to the summit of Sagarmāthā?
Is it better to go and see something than not go and see something? Are you collecting experiences? Is there a prize for the one who collects the most?

"Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God." Mathew 19:24
edit on 16-3-2015 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 16 2015 @ 02:21 PM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Ah. I see the problem. You're egotistical.

You think your experiences are superior to others'.

Here's some news for you: Spirituality, religion, or the lack thereof is not a one-size-fits-all thing. You may think you've, "processed more of the world with eyes open than anyone staring at the back of their eyelids ever could," but in reality, you haven't processed a damn thing.

Edit: In fact, I'd go so far as to argue you really haven't processed anything until you've closed your eyes and seen the same thing from a different perspective.
edit on 16-3-2015 by theCheddar because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 16 2015 @ 03:42 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
A couple posters are trying to sell me on the idea that awareness doesn't change or age, yet they cannot confirm this with any sort of reasoning. It might be fruitless continuing to try and confirm his claim.

I have given you two straight-forward examples in which it is very obvious, at least to me, that awareness does not change or age. The one example you suggested, regarding getting very drunk, my perceptions definitely changed at the time, but not my fundamental awareness. The same with my awareness when I was 10 as compared to now - it is exactly the same. This is completely self-evident to me.

If you would let go of your preconceptions and simply fully consider these examples, you might notice that this is indeed true. However, you insist on your materialistic approach to everything, so this apparently is not currently possible for you.

Yes, perception does change and is associated with the body-mind complex. Awareness is apparently identified with the body-mind complex in our limited point-of-view but our fundamental awareness is actually self-aware consciousness in which all arises. To actually be free of this body-mind bondage, this discovery is necessary.

edit on 3/16/2015 by bb23108 because:



posted on Mar, 16 2015 @ 03:49 PM
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originally posted by: artistpoet


Surely "Awareness" is constantly changing depending on it's focus ... if not we would live in a static Universe which is not the case
Perceptions constantly change depending on one's attention/point-of-view in any given moment. But awareness, one's fundamental being, does not change.



posted on Mar, 16 2015 @ 04:25 PM
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a reply to: bb23108


I have given you two straight-forward examples in which it is very obvious, at least to me, that awareness does not change or age. The one example you suggested, regarding getting very drunk, my perceptions definitely changed at the time, but not my fundamental awareness. The same with my awareness when I was 10 as compared to now - it is exactly the same. This is completely self-evident to me.

If you would let go of your preconceptions and simply fully consider these examples, you might notice that this is indeed true. However, you insist on your materialistic approach to everything, so this apparently is not currently possible for you.

Yes, perception does change and is associated with the body-mind complex. Awareness is apparently identified with the body-mind complex in our limited point-of-view but our fundamental awareness is actually self-aware consciousness in which all arises. To actually be free of this body-mind bondage, this discovery is necessary.


Then consider me confused. I consider myself literate enough to understand a wide variety of vocabulary, but it seems my definition of awareness has been lost on me. If that is a misconception, I apologize.

In order to follow your reasoning any further, I require a little help in understanding your abstract approach to everything.

What is fundamental awareness?



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