Spirituality might work if it wasn't so stupid.

The OP comes across as a bitter person.
His personality is a mess of contradiction and turmoil.
His bitterness is blinding him and constricting his spiritual growth . Until he finds inner peace he will never be at one with himself or the world around him.

Nam Myoho Renge Kyo.

originally posted by: daskakik

Some may say that what percieves is the brain. That doesn't include the whole body. So maybe the eyes capture but there seems to be something between the eyes and the brain that can cause a different perception.

Can you see a brain right now? Can you see eyes right now? 'Eyes and brain' are both concepts appearing, 'eyes and brain' cannot actually be seen. They are not in the scene that is being seen. Seeing and hearing are just happening.
The body and mind (thought arising) are what are appearing.
What is seeing the scene?
Is what is seeing ever separate from what is actually being seen?

originally posted by: daskakik
Who has the final say in what was actually percieved? Does that even exist?

Exactly - that which is being perceived can be doubted - but That which is perceiving has to BE before anything can be doubted.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
The object that perceives is the human body.

Objects can't perceive.
Objects appear in perception.
Is perception an object?

Objects of perception are the entities we attend to when we perceive the world. Perception lies at the root of all our empirical knowledge. We may have acquired much of what we know about the world through testimony, but originally such knowledge relies on the world having been perceived by others or ourselves using our five senses: sight, hearing, touch, taste, and smell. Perception, then, is of great epistemological importance.

www.iep.utm.edu...

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
Is what is seeing ever separate from what is actually being seen?

What do you think?

originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
Is what is seeing ever separate from what is actually being seen?

What do you think?

It might be best if you look directly for yourself - why believe me? In fact I am sure you won't believe what I say.
So check for yourself - has what you are ever been separate from what is actually appearing?

Try not to 'think' about it too much - just look now. Look to what is actually looking.

Francis Assisi said - What we are looking for is what is looking.

a reply to: daskakik

Some may say that what percieves is the brain. That doesn't include the whole body. So maybe the eyes capture but there seems to be something between the eyes and the brain that can cause a different perception.

The brain is a part of the body, is it not?

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
It might be best if you look directly for yourself - why believe me? In fact I am sure you won't believe what I say.
So check for yourself - has what you are ever been separate from what is actually appearing?

I asked for an opinion. Of course I would just see it as that.

originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
It might be best if you look directly for yourself - why believe me? In fact I am sure you won't believe what I say.
So check for yourself - has what you are ever been separate from what is actually appearing?

I asked for an opinion. Of course I would just see it as that.

'Seeing' is the seen and the seer.
There is just what is happening - it is one without a second - SEEING.
Seeing gets split into - seer and seen but really there is not two separate things - there is not a separate seer - all appearances appear as seeing.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
'Seeing' is the seen and the seer.

I disagree. When two seers see a different seen then that what does that mean?

How can they all be the same when they can't all agree?

originally posted by: daskakik
I disagree. When two seers see a different seen then that what does that mean?

You really need to find That which is seeing.

How can they all be the same when they can't all agree?

It is not the seeing that does not agree - seeing does not speak so cannot conflict.
It is the words that are seen that fight.

a reply to: Itisnowagain
There where three parties, what made them up I can't say, but the fact stands that they did not percieve the the same thing.

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: Itisnowagain
There where three parties, what made them up I can't say, but the fact stands that they did not percieve the the same thing.

The appearance changes but that which sees is the same everywhere.
It is that which perceives that is never changing.

originally posted by: Gideon70
The OP comes across as a bitter person.
His personality is a mess of contradiction and turmoil.
His bitterness is blinding him and constricting his spiritual growth . Until he finds inner peace he will never be at one with himself or the world around him.

Nam Myoho Renge Kyo.

I don't see the same thing, curiously.
Over time, I have gained an image of him having a more spiritual nature than he always lets on, and that he has explored much of what others are describing here.
But honestly? I think he understands the concept of provocation and it's benefits. Call that trolling if you want, or refer to the traditions all over the world, of the clown that pokes your bias's and blindspots, to make you aware of them.

Once you are feeling them, do what you wish with that - laugh, cry, turn red in anger and judgement. That's up to you.
Grounding is part of the idea of "head in the sky and feet on the ground" . That little dog that nips at the heels of the Fool, as he walks off a cliff, staring dreamily up at the Sun......

originally posted by: Bluesma
Call that trolling if you want, or refer to the traditions all over the world, of the clown that pokes your bias's and blindspots, to make you aware of them.

There is more to a trickster than poking others. Sooner or later, the trickster tricks himself. Reflexivity.

When LesMis tricks himself into getting out of his own way, I'll consider him a trickster-figure. Until then, I'll consider him an amusing troll. It can be fun and educational fencing with trolls, but that doesn't make them tricksters.

Someone who has the trickster archetype active in their psyche displays paradoxical 'crazy wisdom' that leads people to non-dual realizations, beyond pairs of opposites such as good and evil. But LesMis displays mere common sense wisdom and cynicism laced with a bit of eloquence. Or so it seems to me.

/shrug

👣

And cue the credits.

👣

I'm waiting to see who the lama trainers were

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
And cue the credits.

yet another exercise in futility finds its close.

same time next week?