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For all the Putin and Russia lovers/haters,this post is for you.

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posted on Mar, 7 2015 @ 02:01 PM
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I know that I and others have started posts about something happening in Ukraine,or Crimea or Russia or what have you.All the Russia/Putin haters jump in,then comes the lovers(or haters of US) of said subject,and mud is being thrown everywhere. So I thought the only logical thing to do was to open a new post HERE,that would allow all of us to post: Why we love/hate Putin/Russia or why we love/hate America,with backing up our stance.

I will start this with my thoughts on Russia. I think that at this point the people of Russia just really want the western powers to leave them alone. They know that their lives would be easier if they could trade and be friends,but they don't think that is gonna happen at this point in time.

As far as Putin is concerned, I don't think he walks on water or is in any way shape or form perfect. No one is. But I think he brought new hope to his people about their place in the world,their lives being transformed for the better,and giving them back a sense of pride in their country.

Putin started off in the old KGB yes, it was an honorable career just like serving in the FBI,or CIA here is. He worked his way up while watching his country collapse.He was there in Germany for the fall of the Berlin wall and it effected him as it did so many others. Once back in St.Petersburg he started up his political career. His mentor Anatoly Sobchak believed in Democracy and almost had a coup on his hands. Putin brought in friends from the old KGB to help him safely get Anatoly Sobchak off the plane and home. Putin may indeed had ties with the Russian Mafia,that was not uncommon at that time. The Russian Mafia was pretty well running things by then. Switching types of governments is not something that goes very smoothly.In a very small country it is much easier to pull off than in a large one. People ended up starving and with no homes at that time.The economy had hit rock bottom. Though the US may have liked Yeltsin,he was a very good patsy,the Russian people hated him. He was an embarrassment to them and they felt he was selling them out.

As far as I can conclude from what I have read,Putin came to power at this time due to him being considered a 'player'. Those in power within both the government and the Mafia knew yelstin's time was coming to an end,and they needed someone to replace him with,that would 'play along' with them. Putin was their man,or so they thought. He was put in under Yeltsin so he could step down. The problem was,once in power,Putin stopped playing. Those same Mafiosos that put him in,he ended up in time going after. I think over time,he saw the corruption that was running Russia and that it needed to be if not stopped,then curtailed to where it wasn't running things.

The people's income doubled while he was in office and people for the most part didn't mind if their president had a yacht or whatever. Was there dissenters? Yes,I don't care what kind of government you have, there will always be those that protest against it. To this day,despite the wrongs he has committed over time, I feel that he still has the Russian people's best interests at heart. That doesn't make him perfect,nor does he always do good.But I think he tries to do what is best for Russia in this world and his people know that.The problem is that while he is doing this,the western powers don't like that he doesn't have THEIR best interests at heart,so the media and governments go out of their way to make him this evil snarling rapid dog that really does nothing but reflect badly on them. We KNOW we can't trust our msm, we know we can't trust our government to do whats best for us.But when ever the media says,Putin is the richest man in the world,people lap it up. No one has ever proved a single bit of it. They can claim all the things they want. But they have yet to PROVE a single piece of it.

I'll now open this up for all of you, please give your take on it,and why you believe the way you do.Link any sources to back up your side. have fun.

I am truly interested in the whys of certain members in how they believe.
edit on 7-3-2015 by Dimithae because: corrected words




posted on Mar, 7 2015 @ 02:03 PM
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a reply to: Dimithae

Putin is a politician.

Need I say more?



posted on Mar, 7 2015 @ 02:11 PM
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S&F for a non-abrasive take on it OP!

Personally I don't care for the Putes because I strongly believe that he has his fingers in the Ukraine.
-And he thinks the Western populous is dumb enough to suck up the propaganda.

OP-Do you believe Mr. Putin has his fingers in the Ukraine?



posted on Mar, 7 2015 @ 02:18 PM
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I would pick Putin over Obama to have a beer with .:>) I haven't Golfed in years or rode motorcycles in awhile but doesn't Putin like the Harley ? If it is Putin that has made all the decisions so far in the past while I have to give the man a nodd and a thumbs up . It could have been going a lot worse then it is now and he may be the reason for that .It surely has nothing to do with the war hawks or western MSM for sure .



posted on Mar, 7 2015 @ 02:30 PM
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originally posted by: Dimithae
I will start this with my thoughts on Russia. I think that at this point the people of Russia just really want the western powers to leave them alone. They know that their lives would be easier if they could trade and be friends,but they don't think that is gonna happen at this point in time.

As far as Putin is concerned, I don't think he walks on water or is in any way shape or form perfect. No one is. But I think he brought new hope to his people about their place in the world,their lives being transformed for the better,and giving them back a sense of pride in their country.


The problem is, none of this is achieved by invading another country and stealing a chunk of their land.

The problem with this discussion on ATS is the pro-Putin crowd actively refuse reality, and no matter how much evidence there is to show that Putin has sent his troops into Ukraine, people continue to pretend this hasn't happened in order to maintain their nonsense faith in him and Russia.

Being critical of the US or any other country does not mean that one should ignore reality and pretend Russia isn't being aggressive and threatening the stability of the region.

This is not a football game, we do not need to praise one side and attack the other. Rational people can criticize both, and recognize genuine threats to the world without all this nonsense biased cheer leading.



posted on Mar, 7 2015 @ 02:59 PM
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a reply to: Dimithae

It's actually quite comical to see people blame Putin for the same things Obama did and Obama for the same things Putin did. What I like the best though was the "working for the KGB is honorable." That damn near had me rolling on the floor laughing. I guess there's honour in subterfuge, lies of omission, constant lying, deceit, spying on everybody, the killings, planes being blown up, the drug trade to fund black projects, zero accountability, treason, etc. There is no difference between the KGB, FSB, CIA and NSA, etc., they are all part of the same club and controlled by the same people and it ain't "the people" or all of our puppet politicians.

Another funny statement is that "Putin has his fingers in the Ukraine." Well, if that's the case, then the US has their whole arm in up to the shoulder. Claiming that Putin has destabilized the region after the US funded coup de tat destabilized the region is simply ridiculous. A little research by some people might be in order ;-)

Putin's role right now seems to be to strengthen Russia and get everybody there on the same page so that when SHTF, they "think" they stand a good chance. Especially since Obama's job is to divide the US and weaken it so it can be an easier mark. The Net result I expect would be mutually assured destruction, with or without nukes. If this crap keeps up I think things are gonna get real and move from a proxy war to a real one.

When all is said and done, watch the Chinese, they'll be by to pick up the pieces and claim everything.

Cheers - Dave
edit on 3/7.2015 by bobs_uruncle because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 7 2015 @ 03:13 PM
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originally posted by: canucks555
S&F for a non-abrasive take on it OP!

Personally I don't care for the Putes because I strongly believe that he has his fingers in the Ukraine.
-And he thinks the Western populous is dumb enough to suck up the propaganda.

OP-Do you believe Mr. Putin has his fingers in the Ukraine?



Of course Russia has it's fingers in Ukraine. Didn't Russia start there? If it were not for modern UCC law and the whole facade, it would be one nation. That is without mentioning the fact that it is a VERY important geopolitical region for Russia. Like Mexico and Canada are to the US. Would America sit back and let Mexico and Canada fall under Russian or Iranian influence.

Can I ask you if you doubt that western intelligence has their fingers in Ukraine and what are their intentions?



posted on Mar, 7 2015 @ 03:22 PM
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originally posted by: Rocker2013

originally posted by: Dimithae
I will start this with my thoughts on Russia. I think that at this point the people of Russia just really want the western powers to leave them alone. They know that their lives would be easier if they could trade and be friends,but they don't think that is gonna happen at this point in time.

As far as Putin is concerned, I don't think he walks on water or is in any way shape or form perfect. No one is. But I think he brought new hope to his people about their place in the world,their lives being transformed for the better,and giving them back a sense of pride in their country.


The problem is, none of this is achieved by invading another country and stealing a chunk of their land.

The problem with this discussion on ATS is the pro-Putin crowd actively refuse reality, and no matter how much evidence there is to show that Putin has sent his troops into Ukraine, people continue to pretend this hasn't happened in order to maintain their nonsense faith in him and Russia.

Being critical of the US or any other country does not mean that one should ignore reality and pretend Russia isn't being aggressive and threatening the stability of the region.

This is not a football game, we do not need to praise one side and attack the other. Rational people can criticize both, and recognize genuine threats to the world without all this nonsense biased cheer leading.


I do not see too many people really contesting Russia is helping Russians recoup Ukraine. Maybe a few but for the most part I think people believe that Russia has every right to help Russians repel the western puppet government in Ukraine. The current government does not have Ukraine's interests in mind and even if they do, they will be exploited by the west in exchange for support against Russia's recoup efforts.

You know it will happen. You can't deny that.



posted on Mar, 7 2015 @ 03:45 PM
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a reply to: MALBOSIA




I do not see too many people really contesting Russia is helping Russians recoup Ukraine. Maybe a few but for the most part I think people believe that Russia has every right to help Russians repel the western puppet government in Ukraine.


And yet they elected that government...guess you have to blame the Ukrainians for doing that. And only a few see Russia as being in the right in Ukraine.

Russians have no say, or right in what Ukraine does or deals with and haven't had the right to dictate anything about them since the early 90's. You know when they became and independent sovereign nation.



The current government does not have Ukraine's interests in mind and even if they do, they will be exploited by the west in exchange for support against Russia's recoup efforts.


Well it seems the former government didn't either which is why the protests began in the first place. And again Russia has no right to dictate anything when it comes to Ukraine...why is it you think they do?



posted on Mar, 7 2015 @ 03:55 PM
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a reply to: Dimithae

Want to know what is behind it all, people should take the time to read this...

How Putin Blocked the U.S. Pivot to Asia



“What is a unipolar world? However one might embellish this term, it refers to a type of situation where there is one center of authority, one center of force, one center of decision-making. It is world in which there is one master, one sovereign. At the end of the day, this is pernicious not only for all those within this system, but also for the sovereign itself because it destroys itself from within…

I consider that the unipolar model is not only unacceptable but also impossible in today’s world…. the model itself is flawed because at its basis there is and can be no moral foundations for modern civilization…”
(Munich, 2007)

What sort of man talks like this? What sort of man talks about “the moral foundations for modern civilization” or invokes FDR in his address?


Full Story



posted on Mar, 7 2015 @ 03:59 PM
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originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: MALBOSIA




I do not see too many people really contesting Russia is helping Russians recoup Ukraine. Maybe a few but for the most part I think people believe that Russia has every right to help Russians repel the western puppet government in Ukraine.


And yet they elected that government...guess you have to blame the Ukrainians for doing that. And only a few see Russia as being in the right in Ukraine.

Russians have no say, or right in what Ukraine does or deals with and haven't had the right to dictate anything about them since the early 90's. You know when they became and independent sovereign nation.



The current government does not have Ukraine's interests in mind and even if they do, they will be exploited by the west in exchange for support against Russia's recoup efforts.


Well it seems the former government didn't either which is why the protests began in the first place. And again Russia has no right to dictate anything when it comes to Ukraine...why is it you think they do?


Do different foreign nations send hundreds of people to "observe" western elections in order to be granted authentication. Canada alone sent 200. That is a direct interference. Calling them "observers" does not justify anything.

Why didn't the violent protesters wait till elections? The interim government worked against the Ukraine government and used the turmoil to push an impeachment in absentia. The interim government wanted power more than stability. That much we know.

I have explained why Russia has interest in being interested in Ukraine many times. It is no secret.



posted on Mar, 7 2015 @ 04:05 PM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien




Full Story


So someones opinion is fact now...imagine that.



posted on Mar, 7 2015 @ 04:05 PM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien

I did this. Was very interesting article explaining a lot of what is going on now.

Second line



posted on Mar, 7 2015 @ 04:13 PM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Yankees are creeping up to the Russian borders.

Russians have got every single right to defend their borders even if it means takimng a forward defensive position in Ukraine. Yanks screwed over Japan and Germany along with Nam and Iraq Korea and Grenada Afghanistan.........oooops I lost me Atlas, but Moscow gets the picture.

Stand still and the Yanks will take you out bib style



posted on Mar, 7 2015 @ 04:15 PM
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a reply to: Rocker2013




This is not a football game, we do not need to praise one side and attack the other. Rational people can criticize both, and recognize genuine threats to the world without all this nonsense biased cheer leading.


I can totally agree with that. This isn't Russia is bad and US is good/US is bad Russia good. They both have been doing things that are nefarious. I know my country can do better than it has,but the corruption has taken over to the point that our government really doesn't care if its people are in the streets with no food. They are just too busy bailing out big business to be bothered with the little people. Now shut up and get in your place! That is their attitude and its shameful. We have the capacity to do so much better and its all squandered.

But on my own personal list of things to fear,Russia doesn't really factor in there. Not unless some hotheaded war hawk fool like Breedlove gets his way.Then we will all have plenty to fear. I hear on the news today that NATO has been called out for their lying about Ukraine. They are saying that things are even worse there,and the OSCE is saying it has calmed down,not perfect,but calmed down. Morgheri and Germany have called out NATO over it and basically are telling them to cool it. I don't blame them, if war erupts it will be in the EU's backyard not ours. I do truly believe that NATO must find some excuse to continue to exist,otherwise funding will dry up and they will be out of jobs,so they try and manufacture threats all over.



posted on Mar, 7 2015 @ 04:18 PM
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a reply to: MALBOSIA




Do different foreign nations send hundreds of people to "observe" western elections in order to be granted authentication.


And it seems it has done the same for many elections including Ukraine in 2004 and in 2010.


Canadian bilateral missions have included Ukraine 2004, Lebanon 2005, and West Bank & Gaza 2005.

CANADEM also mounts complex EOMs, including the International Mission for Iraqi Elections (IME) 2005-2006, the International Mission for Monitoring Haitian Elections (IMMHE) 2005-2006, and the Canadian Mission for Accompanying Haitian Elections (CMAHE) 2006. More recently, CANADEM mounted and managed the Mission Canada delegation observing Ukraine's 2010 Presidential elections as well as Ukraine's 2012 parliamentary elections.



www.canadem.ca...

So what's the problem there?



That is a direct interference. Calling them "observers" does not justify anything.



Observing elections interferes how? Did they tell people who to vote for or did they make sure the elections were done fairly and not influenced by any one candidate, or party?



Why didn't the violent protesters wait till elections? The interim government worked against the Ukraine government and used the turmoil to push an impeachment in absentia. The interim government wanted power more than stability. That much we know


Why didn't Yanukovych stay and fight the impeachment he was facing?

The interim government wanted their country back from the Russian corruption that took over involving the then president and his cabinet...that we know.

The reason his impeachment was done in absentia is he fled the country after knowing he was being impeached...which ultimately he decided was better to run than it was to face the truth. That we know.



posted on Mar, 7 2015 @ 04:23 PM
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a reply to: ufoorbhunter




Yankees are creeping up to the Russian borders.


And Russia is crossing borders of sovereign nations taking land away.



Russians have got every single right to defend their borders even if it means takimng a forward defensive position in Ukraine.


They have no right taking any position inside the sovereign borders of Ukraine. So by that logic the US would be okay to put defensive troops in China because they fear Russia may move their military near Alaska?



posted on Mar, 7 2015 @ 04:25 PM
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a reply to: canucks555

I believe he is,but he has more riding on Ukraine than we do. If I had my say on it,I would say that everyone right now get out of the pool and STAY OUT. All of us need to get out of Ukraine and let it deal with its own business. I can see Russia's fears over the Crimea base,and yes they have to protect their interests there. When a government gets overthrown you never know if they will honor prior contracts or not.But you don't have to run in and 'fix' everything the way you want it either. Things could have been done diplomatically with letting the old president see out his term,voting in a new president with a new cabinet to turn things around,and having 'limited' dealings with the EU and Russia.

Of course being a realist and know that things never work out like you would like them. So now there is this quagmire of nonsense that I do believe the US started with the backing of Soros,and the result is a mess. But then look how Iraq was left.And Libya. Everywhere the US goes its seems we tear up the countries we are supposed to be 'helping' and they are left in turmoil with their infrastructure in shambles. The US helping them in Ukraine will only cause more suffering.



posted on Mar, 7 2015 @ 04:47 PM
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originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: MALBOSIA




Do different foreign nations send hundreds of people to "observe" western elections in order to be granted authentication.


And it seems it has done the same for many elections including Ukraine in 2004 and in 2010.


Canadian bilateral missions have included Ukraine 2004, Lebanon 2005, and West Bank & Gaza 2005.

CANADEM also mounts complex EOMs, including the International Mission for Iraqi Elections (IME) 2005-2006, the International Mission for Monitoring Haitian Elections (IMMHE) 2005-2006, and the Canadian Mission for Accompanying Haitian Elections (CMAHE) 2006. More recently, CANADEM mounted and managed the Mission Canada delegation observing Ukraine's 2010 Presidential elections as well as Ukraine's 2012 parliamentary elections.



www.canadem.ca...

So what's the problem there?



That is a direct interference. Calling them "observers" does not justify anything.



Observing elections interferes how? Did they tell people who to vote for or did they make sure the elections were done fairly and not influenced by any one candidate, or party?



Why didn't the violent protesters wait till elections? The interim government worked against the Ukraine government and used the turmoil to push an impeachment in absentia. The interim government wanted power more than stability. That much we know


Why didn't Yanukovych stay and fight the impeachment he was facing?

The interim government wanted their country back from the Russian corruption that took over involving the then president and his cabinet...that we know.

The reason his impeachment was done in absentia is he fled the country after knowing he was being impeached...which ultimately he decided was better to run than it was to face the truth. That we know.



What is the big deal with interference? Yes, we do it a lot.
I believe we brought the Ukraine interim government a little cash to go with the "observers". I think we called it "relief" or "aid" or something to avoid the term "bribe" money. Whatever, they gave our defence minister a tour and let him have his photo op.

Why did Ukraine allow or request the observers? To counter Russian influence? How would the observers go about doing that without establishing themselves among the voter populace. They end up having conversations with voters as it would be their only way to "observe" anything. It is interference.

Yanukovych was going to die if he stayed in Ukraine. The protesters had become extremely violent, they had many arms and the police were not doing anything. The government was more bent on removing him than keeping stability. They just couldn't hold their horses for less than a year till the proper elections. Instead they used a degrading situation that had the hallmarks of western backed coup d'etat, to force the government out.



posted on Mar, 7 2015 @ 05:22 PM
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a reply to: Dimithae

The only thing some seem to want is war.



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