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What has happened to you, ATS?

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posted on Mar, 7 2015 @ 02:17 PM
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

If you know a true believer, then there very often is.

As far as Hinduism, there is a form of condemnation. Live an awful life, and you go to a hell to serve out a time of torment before being reborn as something like a worm. Buddhists hell is similar to Hindu hell.

So both other religions have their condemnations and you can go to hell in those religions many times.

Christian hell is only permanent in some interpretations. I favor the interpretation that says there is simply eternal destruction. In other words, atheists get their stated wish - they become nothing after being thrown into the lake of fire.

So I guess it's up to you which is better - face torment in hell at the end of each of many possible lifetimes or face it once and then nothing.

posted on Mar, 7 2015 @ 02:49 PM

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

originally posted by: DISRAELI

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
If i had my way religious discussion would be discouraged.

But then the religion-bashers would have won, because religion could not be presented positively either.

Very true.

But I personally do not think that religious discussion has any place on ATS just like race, age, sexual orientation and other such things.

That doesn't really make sense. All of those things are very central and important areas of current events and history, and need to be discussed at various points.

Yeah, ok I will give you that,

I think that topics around race, sexuality and religion are all very well and good but many members on ATS have demonstrated they are unable to do this with out causing offence. So perhaps rather than saying it should be discouraged i should have said it should be handled with more respect.

I agree with you. All topics should be able to be discussed, but with strict rules for doing so respectfully. No racist, sexist, stereotyping statements of any group. No ad hominem. Etc.

posted on Mar, 7 2015 @ 02:52 PM
Back to the OP: It's not the disagreement with another's opinion that is getting vile, but rather the degree of disagreement and vitriol applied in that disagreement. Someone said mockery is okay and should be used. I find this attitude to be a generally destructive one for any site trying to increase traffic. Someone please explain how ignorance can be put to rest with outright mockery? Please consider that the person doing the mocking is often coming across as a superior a$$ much of the time, neither presenting a plausible argument nor convincing others that his/her presence in the thread is but for the purpose of disrupting it. How is it good for the site for people to be ridiculed and sent away from the site? I just do not get the self-righteous attitude some take on in order to be disruptive.

Why bother to post or even click on an ATS religion forum at all if your views are atheistic? WHY? The religions forum exists and some people cannot accept the site's decision to have it, is that the real problem? I get the impression that some people feel better about themselves if they 'score points' with others of their belief or non-belief system by trying to disrupt a thread. (Is it to get stars, an ego thing?) While it may make them feel great about themselves, it reminds me of people with little education who try to pass as experts beyond their knowledge level, and some of us who have had that type of co-worker sigh at the frustration of having to work with these type of blow torches.

Should some ideas be mocked? Perhaps some should, but not without presenting a valid reason and argument, which the OP I believe was trying to elaborate about. To take it to the degree that posters will leave the site makes it appear like a closed club where some members and not the site owners decide what is best for the site.

posted on Mar, 7 2015 @ 02:55 PM

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

If you know a true believer, then there very often is.

As far as Hinduism, there is a form of condemnation. Live an awful life, and you go to a hell to serve out a time of torment before being reborn as something like a worm. Buddhists hell is similar to Hindu hell.

So both other religions have their condemnations and you can go to hell in those religions many times.

Christian hell is only permanent in some interpretations. I favor the interpretation that says there is simply eternal destruction. In other words, atheists get their stated wish - they become nothing after being thrown into the lake of fire.

So I guess it's up to you which is better - face torment in hell at the end of each of many possible lifetimes or face it once and then nothing.

This is not true. You are conceiving of other cultures' afterlife still in judeo-christian terms.

In Hinduism at least, and yoga, they teach a much more enlightened viewpoint. ALL people will get back to God. There is no condemnation for anybody, period.

But, you may suffer as a result of your own actions and ignorance for a time, but that is mostly internal because you are cut off mentally from the oneness of it all and your connection to the divine.

Some vedic traditions do have people devolving for a time if they are not on the right path, as you say maybe going down the animal chain. But again, none of it is permanent.

Everything is just a universal classroom where you keep having to retake the class until you pass.

Christianity, on the other hand, posits everyone being condemned by God, for things that are basically human instincts, like lust. Or even worse, from the ridiculous story of Adam, Eve, and original sin. It's totally insane. Ann Rand put it best, when she stated that "robots are amoral." If nobody in the history of mankind has been able to not sin and is condemned, then the standard itself is wrong and immoral. It would be like a person creating robots that have a glitch they cannot rewire themselves and then condemning them for it. Therefore nobody is condemned. The Bible is wrong and so is Christian theology. Since nobody is condemned the "blood of Jesus" is unnecessary and so is said salvation.

posted on Mar, 7 2015 @ 03:16 PM
I imagine for some, a lot of it is just being bored. Many religious types are thin skinned and are not hard to wind up. Toss out the magical Jewish carpenter / magical daddy in the sky / gay lifestyle / gay marriage or any other of their hot button items and they start buzzing like flies on crap. A quick troll drive by and they are entertained for hours.

posted on Mar, 7 2015 @ 03:20 PM
a reply to: ProfessorChaos

ATS certainly have changed a lot. I remember when i joined the site was really cool, i had many good debates in religion forums with posters as an example "madnessismysoul" with his big Darwin avatar and many others. Those people where atheists but we had very good and intelligent discussions about a subject. Those people left and a new branch of posters joined. They simply want to argue just for the sake of argument. That resulted in many hate threads concerning the Christian religion and snarky remarks and comments. Then i took a break. When i came back nothing actually changed. The only thing that is added to a religious discussion, is that the Christians are represented, as backwards unintelligent people that deserve to be mocked.

Nowdays is simply all about Stars and Flags.

Just my 2 cents on that matter


posted on Mar, 7 2015 @ 03:39 PM
My problem with Christian faith is that I see a duality/contradiction in the bible that I cannot smooth over.

When I read the bible I think Jesus is teaching works without faith is dead. And for me some Christians push faith alone without works->that the name Jesus is a free ride to not follow the golden rule and be your brothers/sisters keeper.

And that created the whole: you are only saved if you say Jesus have died for your sins.

I do not believe that. I believe fully in karma. Jesus was a good teacher and I will try to follow his example and therefore not create to much bad karma, and might even clean up some old.

I cant believe a blessed one (for instance Jesus) would ever judge a person lost just because he did not say his name. A person that judges like that have a big ego (pride) issue. Following the teaching in spirit and being lost on a technicality. Ain't going to happen.

I might not have the same idea on contraceptions and abortion as the pope but this is a step in the right direction. What can I say I like the new pope. Pope Francis assures atheists: You don’t have to believe in God to go to heaven.

No matter what religion you wear. Follow the golden rule and you are wonderful in my book. But I will probably debate you some if we do not agree on an issue

Namaste (I bow to the divine in you)
edit on 7-3-2015 by LittleByLittle because: (no reason given)

posted on Mar, 7 2015 @ 04:06 PM

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

It is born out though via real studies that there is a negative correlation between religiousity and education levels.

The problem this raises though is that it shows to me that the bible, Christianity, and the "holy spirit' aren't achieving what they are supposed to: transformation, being more "christ-like," etc.

Are you referring to spiritual experience like meeting the light? Knowing the spirit personally? Change in awareness?

posted on Mar, 7 2015 @ 04:24 PM

originally posted by: ketsuko

Hindus still have their caste system and Buddhists also have their problems.

There have also been incidents of violence in the name of both religions ... quite recently too.

True. They get caught up in duality also and do dumb things. It is not only the Abraham Religions. But the question is what ideas is the best way to temper the mind so that we become peaceful?

You can in one way see earth as a simulation where god/spirit is testing what religion/views will make humanity most symbiotic to each other. At the same time a school, vacation place and a punishment for bad behavior for some souls.

I am very interested to one day see the data on what really happened. Another time/another place.

posted on Mar, 7 2015 @ 05:07 PM
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

Well then sources I read on the subject must all be wrong.

You go, you spend time in a hell to atone and are reborn. Both religions have the idea. Or is Naraka not a thing anymore? Or have you convinced yourself it's not or have your yoga instructors done so to make themselves feel better about it all?

Plenty of Christians do it to. They say they're saved and because of that they have license to do whatever. Plenty of atheists love to bash us all because those people exist.

posted on Mar, 7 2015 @ 05:39 PM
a reply to: ProfessorChaos

Nice to see you! I agree with your sentiments, and took a break from ATS for a little while for the same reasons. I was about to start a similar thread myself. I guess what I find interesting, is that usually you find these types of threads are started by the anti-theists, and then it's just anti-theists who participate in them. By and large, Christians tend to avoid posting in them (except for one or two who end up being baited into the discussion, or perhaps they do so because they feel it is their duty). I often wonder what the point is in sitting around patting each other on the back on a topic you don't even believe in to begin with.

At any rate, I enjoy your posts, and I hope to see you participating more often. There are a few members that have gone quiet lately (largely for the same reason, I suspect) that I have been missing. You are one of them

posted on Mar, 7 2015 @ 06:05 PM
a reply to: ProfessorChaos

I think you answered your own question. This used to be a conspiracy site with well thought out threads pertaining to the relevant interests. Now it is a social site with conspiracy leanings, with a brand new bunch of religious zealots that believe preaching on such site is a good thing. I think it's entertaining myself, and I'm almost convinced that it's a full on ATS troll from banned and angry ex members.

The owners love it, the threads are some of the most popular, and the revenue comes in. Why else include a religious forum at a conspiracy site at all- where the zealots have free reign to promote their agenda? Double Click hits and revenue. I can understand and am for writing a thread about religious conspiracy, but preaching and quoting scripture is simply stupid. I used to get uptight about it, but now it's nothing more than vapid "you will burn" threads, horrible thread craft and way less time spent here. ATS grew up, and I can always change the channel. Did it ever occur to you that the zealots crave the attention? That they flourish and grow stronger with every confrontation? That it cements their ignorant beliefs that they're being persecuted? It's what they do and it's more popular than ever.

posted on Mar, 7 2015 @ 06:57 PM
I don't see overt bashing as much as i do criticism. But i will say that the general quality of threads have decreased over time.

Since most are on the Christian thing, i would like to point out that just as there are threads made criticising the religion, there are also threads which propagate it. In fact, the same can be said for any topic on ATS, as all people here have their own opinions on things.

posted on Mar, 7 2015 @ 08:17 PM
I was making a South Park reference. Don't take it too literal my friend.

a reply to: FarleyWayne

posted on Mar, 7 2015 @ 09:03 PM

originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: thesmokingman
Their own god also states...
Mark 16

“Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

They can preach all they want...does not mean I am going to listen. In fact, I will preach right back to them, we will see who gets upset first.

posted on Mar, 7 2015 @ 09:59 PM
The bashing of religion is just one lane.

The overall tone of this site has swung left. Look around ... look around.

posted on Mar, 8 2015 @ 03:07 AM
a reply to: Snarltbh honest it swings left to right all the time. There was one point when you couldn't get away from Ron Paul threads. Just part of the life cycle of ATS

I think american ATS users forget that there are many members not from the USA who contribute to the site from countries not as religious as america. Deal with it

posted on Mar, 8 2015 @ 04:43 AM
As a Christian I have to honestly say that the vitriol does not bother me a single bit. The Bible, Jesus himself warned us that it would happen - paraphrasing he said whatever happens to you in my name, remember that it happened to me first.

It's a fairly strong part of his message that following him comes with some high costs. Overcoming ego and accepting abuse are just two of the requisites listed.

All this truth has gotten lost in most modern interpretations of Christianity - a world where people like Joel Olsteen, Benny Hinn, and Creflo Dollar teach the "prosperity doctrine" which is so contrary to what the Bible actually says that it blows my mind so many buy into it. They teach that if you accept Christ then you'll suddenly be the King of your world, become filthy rich, and be the envy of one and all.

Not the same message I got from the words of a carpenter who admonished his followers to carry two pairs of shoes, a stick, the clothes on their backs - and then to trust the world to provide what they needed to survive.

Add to that the fact that people become really obsessive with the Bible and begin learning dead languages trying to divine hidden secrets in it ( also something I don't recall Jesus telling us to do ) and you sort of end up with a recipe for dissent.

I watch the religious forums and while the athiests do troll, honestly the different sects are much more hateful and judgmental to one another than the nontheists usually are.

posted on Mar, 8 2015 @ 09:57 AM
I pay little or no attention to these religious rants. The reason...? I find it laughable all the statements and profound enlightened proclamations spewed as though they were universal truths. Someone, somewhere, sometime said or heard....... And now it's presented as factual universal truth, truth not to be questioned. We can all play 'wordsmith' and form a paragraph which could guide the audience in the direction either protagonist or antagonist. Mob mentality used to work well, now it's a bit more difficult to access crowds.... Simply being in print does not make it accurate. That was a considerable amount of print, and it also was designed to take the viewer in a direction benefitting the author, regardless of factuality or truth. It was designed to elicit some small amount of sympathy, unification and a commonality where the author has established Platform. A platform likened to a 'Universal Truth' unquestionable. BUT the entire story is laced with half truths, fabrications and no shortage of mistranslations.

posted on Mar, 8 2015 @ 10:15 AM

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: ProfessorChaos
a reply to: EternalSolace

Some Christians take it upon themselves to judge, just as some non believers do the same. Not all of them.

That's all I'm saying.

This is true, but Christianity has been pronouncing judgement, sometimes via death or subjugation, on peoples for over 1600 years now.

So maybe the backlash is simply righteous and Christianity as a whole is finally getting what it's been dishing out. Remember, in the West one couldn't really get away very easily with publicly calling out Christianity until not that long ago. Even today, it's hard to get elected in America without at least claiming to be Christian.

Christianity genocided whole continents of people (my people).
Christianity tortured girls as young as 12 on the rack for hundreds
of years.

But modern Christians want a free pass for all this, while telling
non-Christians that they are the problem.

Now yes, i know that few modern Christians genocide Native
American's any more, or torture young girls on the rack.

But claiming moral superiority should be permanently off
the table, and if this 'know a tree by it's fruit' doesn't
prove the entire tree rotten beyond all possible
imagination, I don't know what could.

Now as the OP said the post was not just about Christianity,
I'll also mention other topics.

Yes, the OP is correct that all sorts of topics are now so
overrun with mindless bashing-machines, that I haven't
started a post of my own in at least six months.

I could write all sorts of interesting posts, but i don't;
there is no point.

So i wait for someone even more obnoxious than I am,
to start a post on my topics, and then i chime in there.

BTW, I do not enjoy shoving someone's face into the 8th
grade history book so that they can see what their
religion or philosophy has done to others, but i feel
obliged sometimes.

I wish everyone could just get along.

(as Professor Chaos says on S.P.).


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